Codex Orks Review: Part 4a. Choppy-Elites



Stolen from bigshoota.com



Well, the time has come that everyone was waiting for... the Elites. In fact, I put it to a vote today and 100% of respondants wanted me to do Elites. So I told them, "FA it is!" and left.

Talk about pressure guys.

Well, the following are our Elites Choices:

1. Nobz

2. Meganobz

3. Burnaboys

4. Tankbustas

5. Lootas

6. Kommandos.

We will have to split this into 2 sections so as not to completely over-size the blog entry.

So... Choppy Elite Choices.

Tank Classifications

I think it’s time for one of these articles :P. A lot of energy seems to go into arguing over terms and what you should call tanks, etc. mainly in Vt2’s last post of the Space Marine review. So here I’m going to outline what I (emphasis on I) label tanks and what I presume their roles are. I imagine there will be some variation in tank placement and classification but for the most part I’ve found these classifications to not cause a huge amount of confusion. Hopefully this will encourage…er some more discourse in relation to Vt2’s articles and streamline terminology (and if you disagree or have an extra term, etc., let’s hear it). This article will also lead up to a discussion on the vehicle rules over the next coming days. Some of you may remember Stelek’s articles on this and I thought it would be a good idea to look at them again, especially since some of us have talked about it in the chat lately.

Transports

The first and most obvious. The most obvious transport in the game is the Rhino. They generally have low armor from AV10-12 and pack one or two guns but can be bought as dedicated vehicles for squads. This is the big kicker for transports, especially the ones which have heavy guns on them such as Razorbacks and Chimeras as you are essentially getting access to more FoC slots. Whilst these transports can be used offensively their primary use is to hide, protect and transport infantry units around the battlefield. This allows infantry more protection, greater mobility and often increased firepower.

Marine codex 'review' (#15): light support

Predator: great.

At edition shifts, company tradition dictates that marine units that were formerly useless and a silly waste of money must be improved - sometimes, dramatically so.

Predators once came in two flavors, but both of them were useless to a ridiculous degree.
In fact, predators were so useless, the large majority of the game's players hadn't even seen a predator in person until 5th edition hit. A true legend in its own right.

Email in: Flesh Tearers: Gabriel Seth and a Jump Pack Army?

"Kirby

Recently found your blog and really enjoying your insight into the game - thought I would drop you a query on a possible new army I'm working on, and could assist...

I want to create a Flesh Tearers army list (1500 points), using Gabriel Seth. I really envisage Seth leading Assault Squads with Jump Packs, but as he himself has no Pack that really makes the idea of an all-Jump Pack army unworkable.

I'm also a big fan of a couple of Baal Predators, and would also like to incorporate FNP bubbles from some Priests if possible.

Wondered whether you have any ideas for developing the theme? What is the best way to use Seth? I'm having a hard time coming up with a reliable and "safe" delivery mechanism for Seth, especially in a Jump Pack army.

My current thinking is to build a Razorback spam list, and ditch the idea of Jump Packs in favour of smaller Assault Squads accompanied by Priests (but that wasn't really the initial theme I was after...!)

Any assistance appreciated!

Gorman"

Analysis: Thunderfire Cannon

I thought we'd talk a bit more about the Thunderfire cannon after a couple comments back and forth in Vt2's recent review post. This post will be akin to my Tau review posts currently and offer up suggestions on how to fix the Thunderfire as well as taking a peek at how it works. So, the Thunderfire is quite impressive in the amount of damage it can do to infantry and its utility to offer up different type of shots. Unforunately, all of these shots are designed as anti-infantry with low to medium strength and some cover busting potential. Whilst it can also cause difficult terrain checks to anything it hits (great for parking lots and bikers), it is and always will be currently, an anti-infantry gun. This isn't really bad and although it would be nice to have some sort of anti-tank shot, the real problem lies in its fragility.

Although the Thunderfire cannon has a good range (60") and should set up with at minimum a 4+ if not 3+ cover save thanks to the Techmarine's special ability, once anything gets through that cover save and actually "hits" the cannon, the Cannon is likely to die and if one has a lot of infantry or large amounts of infantry in tanks, this will generally happen pretty quickly. This makes the Thunderfire Cannon a glass cannon. It can do a lot of damage but can't take it. Whilst this is fine in some armies (hi DE!), Space Marines generally work around durability. Although the Thunderfire is pretty cheap for it's offensive prowess against infantry, in 5th edition and the SM codex where they don't really fit into the style of army they promote, the Thunderfire rapdily slips down the ranks of usefulness when compared to the Predator and Land Raider.

Email in: hybrid marines?

Loyd said: "Sorry - me again!

Whilst I think I will run SM bikers as my main 2000 points list, how would you extrapolate the 1500 list up to 2000?

I can either add another predator and a tooled up command squad in a plasmaback, or a land raider with some assault terminators inside. I also like the thought of 6 multi melta attack bikes rushing a flank whilst the armour dominates the middle of the board, giving the enemy too much to shoot at, and too much to think about.

I also agree on the devs - anything that can't remain mobile and re deploy is out for me, apart from rifleman dreads...

Thanks again for your insight!"

New Comment System: Intense Debate

Yes, another not so fantastic amazing post by me guys, sorry. Super busy atm with uni work but luckily Puppy stepped up to the plate last night. And guess what (what you ask?), new comment system is up! Now I know some of you didn't want it, but popular opinion (67% of vote) were keen to give it a go. The only real issue is lack of google connectivity. This means you guys have to make a new account to comment (unless you have one of the other login options) so isn't too big of an issue. This is mostly a problem for me in the long-run as I need to run more crap behind the scenes to keep up with everything and ensure it runs smoothly.For the first couple of days I imagine it will be annoying for you guys as well as you need to make new accounts (or not, whatever floats your boat) and there will be two comment systems being run as old posts have stayed with google. This should fade within a couple weeks but for archived posts which get a lot of visits like the Armies in 5th articles, this could become an issue. I'll see if I can export old comments to the new system if we decide to use it.

Dave Taylor reaches out

I'm sure most of you know who Dave Taylor is. If not, go find out. Recently a group of bloggers got together for the Storm Wardens project which raised a bunch of money for Doctor's Without Borders. This was a fantastic cause and brought the blogger community together. Dave Taylor was a part of this and has painted some beautiful models before that project, for that project and since. Now he's struck out on his own to help some people he knows by auctioning off two of his amazingly painted armies and personally...well this deserves a massive bunch of e-cred. This guy has put hours and hours into these armies and most likely enjoyed playing with them and admiring them in his display cases and he's willing to sell them to help two of his mates in need.

Go Dave Taylor. This is my plug for you. Tiny in comparison to what you are doing but the more people hear about what you're doing, hopefully the more the blogger community as a whole can do things like this and word spreads on what you are trying to do. A lot of crap goes back and forth on blogs but when it comes down to it, we're all guys and gals who share a passion and we should never forget that.

Swedish Comp: Third Time's A Charm?

Those jumping into this discussion might find it helpful to read the earlier articles, here (where the initial discussion happened) and here, where we saw responses from many of the Swedes and talked about lists some.

Now, to clear the air on some points:
1. 'Threshold' comp (where you merely have to meet a minimum value) is roughly split, or perhaps a bit more common than "modifier" comp (where yours and your opponent's battle points are adjusted after each battle based on the difference in your comp scores). Non-comped tournaments also exist and are far from unheard of.

2. Most tournaments have upper and lower comp limits; 80 or 90 is the general ceiling, with the floor being anywhere from 0 to 60, depending. (40 has been brought up as a common number.)

3. Sweden, in part due to the smaller player base as compared to the U.S.A., has a much more unified national style. There is a common FAQ accepted by most players and terrain in relatively standardized- LOS-blocking terrain is very common there, compromising 70-80% of the terrain on a given table. Ruins and area terrain are not nearly so common. IG is generally seen as the power list and, as a conflux of the other factors, shooting lists in general seem to be less prevalent. 1750 is almost always the points level that is defaulted to.

4. Comp in Sweden is generally seen as a way to control "broken" armies moreso than punish unfluffy ones or to "equalize" the codices. Soft scores are very uncommon, apart from perhaps a token painting score.

Now, let's dive into the meat of things and talk about some of what I feel are misconceptions about comp and what it does. Also, we'll see some more lists and maybe talk about that a bit, eh?

Marine codex 'review' (#14): heavy fail

Devastators: bad.

So many words to get out, and so little space.

DEceivingly heavily armed squads, made up of Vanguard-expensive dudes on foot.
Attack bikes make far cheaper platforms for multi-meltas and heavy bolters.
STernguard do lascannons and regular missiles better, for less.
Autocannons aren't an option, unfortunately.
Tactical marines at least own midfield, and venerable dreads are the marine masters of the plasmacannon. You could take squads of these, OR you Skip this entry, and use your heavy support slots to put more armor on the field.

Mediocre and overpriced at best (4 missiles or heavy bolters), too bad for words at worst (4 plasmacannons or lascannons), devastators are painfully bad, and never worth it.

You'll hear certain people on warseer and similar argue that this is a good unit, because it lets you mass heavy weapons.
Well, when the squad starts at 90, and four of the cheapest gun is 60 total, that's a problem. Five guys on foot. 150 points at the very least. Add five more dudes for +80 points, to be a real pro, and put a powerfist and plasmapistol on the sarge. Now you're one with the forcel.
Such good value, and such a fairly priced unit, too.

New Fantasy Blog

I got this e-mail in this morning about back scratching (there's a damn itch right...there...).

"Hello folks at 3++. I'm going to assume kirby. Sorry for using the hotmail address. My business email doesn't seem to be letting me log in.

Anyway, on to the matter at hand. I'm starting out a cute little WHFB blog, and was wondering if I could put a link to this site up on it, if in return I can get an honourable mention? Of course, only if you think my blog is worthy of it. It's not much at the moment, but I did just start yesterday. I'm not the most tech savvy (as in I can't write html for loving or money), so it wont be as fancy frills as 3++, but I prefer a more spartan approach anyway. No offense but enough 3++ and you will sear your eyes. Anyway, here's my blog if you're at all interested; Skavenblight

It's 8th edition oriented, but I will be discussing 40k on it as well, as I'm an avid Space Wolves, Tyranid and (soon to be) Tau player.

Codex Orks Review. Part 3. Troops

Da Green Tide

Usually in these reviews, people follow the FOC. With Orks, there is an old adage that leads me to move directly to the troops section.

Boys before toys.

Usually what this means, is boys, boys, and lotsa boys.
Listen to the intarwebs, they will tell you a horde of boys cant win.

Yeah, about that. Don't count your dead pile before you start rolling shots.

*Cue Messanger of Death quoting and snowmobiling me...
Righto.

GWvsJohn vs.... YOU!

Just a quick post for now. I'm off this week and I'd love to get some 40k in. It's probably going to be mostly on Vassal due to my model situation (as in, they're all in a pile in my parents basement 300 miles away). I'd love for them to be against people I don't hate (like you guys).

So, look for me on Vassal or shoot me an email and let me know when you're available. I'll also try to get some real posts up too.

Analysis: Vindicators

There have been a few questions about Vindicators in comments whilst I was away and you see a lot of these suckers used on forums yet never or rarely upon request, on this blog. Let's break down the why of this and potentially how they could be fixed. This will look across all of the Marine codex variants including the Blood Angels and whilst Vt2 may cover this later in his Space Marine review, we're beating him to the punch ^^.

So first off, why do people even use this tank? Obviously it's a tank and for 125 points you get an AV13/11/10 BS4 tank which ignores terrain thanks to siege shield and has a very impressive S10 AP2 ordnance gun. This would appear to work well in a mech list that doesn't rely on getting close (i.e. Land Raiders with Terminators) as you can protect the weaker side armour and throw 3 S10 ord templates around. However, these tanks suffer from one-gun-syndrome and a short range.

New Dark Eldar

Well I know it’s late but guess what, easy post for me on my arrival back home ^^. In case some of you have been living under a rock, Dark Eldar re finally being re-released. Their last whole codex release was sometime in 1998 and although they’ve had a couple tweaks since then, these bad assed pointy ears have basically been ignored by Games Workshop for the past decade. Cue sad music. I once had an army of these guys and sold them long ago, not being a fan of their model range and having moved. With their new minis which look bloody amazing, my pocket book will be very tempted to come out and purchase some new minis.

Here are some pictures in case you haven’t seen them yet and whilst there are rumours on play-style and rules currently, I won’t speculate until I get my hands on my own grubby copy! One would imagine DE would still emphasise MSU which 5th edition has moved towards with a large amount of fast skimmers which can hit hard but don’t have the survivability of most tanks in the game. Hopefully GW won’t nerf their flexibility with their FAQ but a whole new army for us to explore is exciting (maybe the BA e-mails will die down now…).

Marine codex 'review' (#13): the 'other' fast attack.

Thanks to all who helped dig up pics of the elusive scout bikes and storm speeders.


Landspeeder storm: bad.

A speeder variant that somehow manages to be less durable, worse geared, but still priced like a real speeder.

"So what's the deal here? The internet tells me this is a 'finesse' unit, that's really powerful." The internet is very wrong about this thing.

Unsurprisingly, storms cost 50 points base, and have the 'scouts' universal special rule. For these 50 points, you get a bastardized version of a landspeeder, with two pieces of special gear. The storm itself is armor 10, which doesn't shock anyone. Normal speeders drop quickly enough to fire, but not as quickly as, say, an ork buggy, ork trukks, sentinels, and eldar vypers, because speeders are blessed with not being open topped. Storms, however, are.
This is bad for your health, and storms aren't 35 points each, like buggies.

Email in: Balanced training wheels

"Hi,

A bit of background: two players (me and a friend) want to start playing 40k. We both want to become at least semi-competitive in the long run. We got the rulebook and templates for free from someone who bought a second starter set, so there is no need focus solely on marines or orks. Due to both time and space constraints we will be playing 1000 points until we really know the odds and ends of the game. Thus:

Can you build us two army lists at 1000 points (any two armies) that works at that point level, is balanced against each other, teaches most of the important aspects of the game AND forms a good core for later expansion into the 1500/1750 point range? Our plan is to proxy the list, then build it and in the end paint it, all the while playing it once a week without doing any changes to the list at all. Our goal is to understand the game (at least at an intermediate level) before we start shelling out money for any random mini that looks cool.

Thanks. A strange request, perhaps, but a sincere one none the less.

fester's Crazy Ideas: Sage's Idea

I have been banging heads with Sage from the chat on his crazy idea, and finally pulled some time to nut out a solution for him. He approached me with an idea, a fluff based concept that he would like to explore a bit more, and try to bring across to any army.

The concept is as follows:

A bunch of thousand sons and world eaters have realized that chaos is not the true path, and have come back to grand-pappy's side.

Simple.

So we have to look at the key concepts here:

1. Thousand Sons.

The 1k sons are for the most part, automatons led by a sorcerer.

2. Khorne Beserkers.

These guys are a bit nuts, are CC focused, and tough.

Marine codex 'review' (#12): hell's angels.

No, that's not a twisted version of the ravenwing banner, or the emperor's children wing.
That's the original GW ripped off, and until 2008, it was in terrible taste, and not appropriate at all.

Why, you ask? Because bikes sucked so hard, no one ever used them. Not even dark angels fielded theirs in a serious fashion, and they have a dedicated, hardcore, closed, and very secretive brotherhood of extremely skilled, fearless bikers. Looking back on things, this was probably GW's way of saying 'biker gangs are not cool, and winners don't do drugs.' Shortly after this proclamation, it was reported that Gav Thorpe and Jervis both sped off into the sunset on their heavily modded choppers, smoking joints rolled from one pound bills, discussing the future of codex design.

Hybrid Blood Angels Army Log

<- The army!

As I delve into my first 40k army I wanted a list that focused on high mobility and was hard hitting with moderate fire support.  After all the recommendations for armies that fit this and specific builds I decided to go with Blood Angels as I enjoy the models the most.

The next step was creating the list, I have Chumbalaya and Kirby to thank for this step.  These two great minds hashed out a list and put a great amount of thought into it while keeping me informed for decisions and specific units I wanted to include.

This is the list we came up with, a hybrid BA list that offers the play style I was after.

1x Librarian Shield of Sanguinius; The Sanguine Sword

2x Sanguinary Priest; Jump Pack; Hand Flamer

Marine codex 'review' (#11): speeders and attack bikes

The most bitter rivalries come about as a result of hard competition for a spot on a winning team.
While supposedly similar in purpose, these two have been fighting for supremacy since 3rd edition, and there's still no clear winner.
Much like pirates versus ninjas, the debate's never gonna end, ever, but let's take a look at what's on offer, so a new generation of marine players can pick their side in this most immortal of all conflicts - that of speeders versus attack bikes.


Attack bikes: great.

Fast, cheap, easily screened anti-tank or anti-infantry.
40 points buy you a single heavy bolter, bolted onto a marine biker with two wounds. Like the razorback, this is a good deal, but more so, because attack bikes are small enough to hide behind rhino chassis, aren't shakeable, and will pretty much always have a cover save if people can even see them.

Codex Orks Review. Part 2: Special Character HQ's

Time to look at the Special Characters in the Ork Codex.

Now, we covered the Mob Rule in the previous article, but we need to cover the Waaagh! Rule before we move on fully to the SC's.

The Waaagh is called in the shooting phase, usually with the owning player yelling WAAAARRRGGGHHHHH at the top of his (invariably his) voice. This grants Orks (not gretchin) fleet. Any squads that intend to use the Fleet ability roll a D6, on a 1, take a wound. Sigh.

Oh, and this is a once per game ability.

This allows you to do a once-per-game push with your boyz to get into combat.

There is some discussion over whether or not this is actually their "run" move or not. It depends on whether you do RAI or RAW or have the reading comprehension of a Squig and don't care.

Kirby goes away and new comment system

Yup, I'm taking a break from you ...er people. I'll only be gone for a few days and since I have uni work to do will likely be online but very unlikely to be online significantly or interacting with the blog too much. I've answered most of the e-mails in my inbox received up to the 21st of September. If you've sent an e-mail in before then and I haven't replied please send me another as I didn't get it! Hopefully the guest authors will keep the posting going but who knows. We've obvioulsy had a bit of a light week in terms of 40k content due to the Swedish comp posts but that's died down enough now that there should only be a couple more posts by some guest authors who'd like to get their thoughts out and then back to regular business which means...another Armies in 5th series. I'm thinking Eldar though strong opinions in another direction might sway me. I will also attempt to finish off the first Articles in 8th and anything else which tickles my fancy (now's the time to put in requests).

Before I go...a lot of people have asked for a new comment system as large amounts of comments can be a pain under the blogger system. So I've hunted around and found a potential replacement called intense debate. Click here for a trial run. The advantages of this comment system are liking/disliking comments, being able to reply directly to other comments which tier off and start compressed (this helps with long conversations and doesn't take up as much room), edit function if you  have an account and looks a lot better. However, it doesn't connect with google so a new account is required (though it doesn't take long to setup), takes a bit longer to load than normal and whilst replying to comments allows for better conversations, this can make eye-wrenching when a bunch of people get involved spanning over 20 comments. So, I'd greatly appreciate if you could take the time to check it out and vote to the left on whether or not you're fine with the current comment system or would like the upgrade. I don't mind either way.

Email in: IG Tech Priests

“Hey Kirby,

In an aussie tournament environment, what do you think of putting a tech priest in the army with twin servitor plasma cannons? I can only imagine they'd help your comp score, particularly if say you brought to servitors with servo arms as well (5 man squad).

Hide them behind a Russ, and use fire on my target to deny your opponent cover saves. This could be great versing Long Fangs and what not.

I can't think of what else I'd really give the fire on my target to to be as effective - obviously plasma/melta at short range, or heavy weapon vets firing at smoked transports. But this could hurt?

Regards,

Jason”

How To: Hybrid Space Wolves Part 2

We’ve had a lot of articles lately on comp and army list e-mails, so before I go away for the weekend (yes I’m going away, leave me be) I thought it would be nice to give the most loyal readers a nugget. Whether or not it’s chicken or gold, meh! Several days ago I started to look at Hybrid Wolves, the new ‘it’ list. In this post we looked at the basic foundation blocks of most competitive Wolf lists: Long Fangs and Grey Hunters. What these units provide is cheap and flexible long-ranged firepower and a midfield presence which can run around MSU style and provide combat support, meltagun/flamer fire and trundle around in a pillbox (Rhino) or gunboat (Razorback). What you do with Grey Hunters often defines the rest of your list and how it operates. Let’s take a look at the rest of the Hybrid Wolf army now.

Since we’ve already used our Heavy Support and generally most of our Troop slots (unless using big squads) on Long Fangs and Grey Hunters, we need to use Elites, Fast Attack and HQs to supplement our force and give it an identity. A quick note: ISTs are a viable choice to supplement Grey Hunters and be a cheap double special weapon option to hijack Rhinos or simply hang around. It’s also important to remember we generally use one Elite slot to grab some Wolf Guard for our Grey Hunters and any other squads we may want and Long Fangs are also capable of taking Razorbacks for more firepower/mobility. So what options do we have? Rune Priests, WL/WGBL on TWC, TWC, Wolf Scouts, Dreadnoughts, Lone Wolves, Land Speeders and Attack Bikes are all highly viable options. How do you decide what you want though?

Email in: Blood Angels and Terminatrs, why don't I see more of this combination?

"Hey Kirby,

I have been reading the BA codex lately, and I have even proxied a few games using your all jumpers list which has been a ton of fun, I have altered your list slightly to include some Sang Guard, but I have found that the list stumps some players, they are not exactly sure how to deal with it...it is quite a change from the Black Templar lists I have been running. I am not giving up on my BT's, nor the LRC conversion that I sent you pictures of a few weeks back (I will make sure and keep you updated with pics), I am just trying something new. Anyway onto the question.

As I have been looking at different BA lists and thinking about how to set up a non-jump army, I realized that I have yet to see a list with assault terminators in them, maybe I am not looking hard enough, but I am wondering why? Do these termies lack the fast delivery system that the BA's seem to have?, are they not fitted to the assault/combat style of the BA's. I mean after playing BT's I freakin' love assault termies, expensive, but I love them.

Now, I read the "Immolator Spam: Blood Angels Style" article and it got me thinking, throwing in a Redeemer w/ some TH/SS touting termies could really give that list a punch, I see that the razorbacks could be used as a "bubble" to allow the LRC to get into postion. Doing this build would also make it a little less expensive cash wise to build, at least for me, I have a box of unused assault termies and a un-built LRC at the moment. But then again I have only been playing 40k now for about 3 months and I may not even know what I am talking about, what are your thoughts?

Ashton"

Email in: BA Dread [2000]

"Hey, I have been reading your site for a little while now and between you and YTTH, I have found some fun ideas to do with my lists. I was thinking of branching out and making a Dread/Drop Pod army and it seems that BA is the way to go. I have been reading the recent posts you have about dreads in SM and BA and I came up with this list.

HQ: Sanguinor 275
Elite: Libby Dread w/ Blood Lance and Shield w/ Drop Pod X3: 630
Troops: Assault Marines X10, Flamers x2, PF, w/ Drop Pod X3: 675
Heavy: Multi-Melta Dreadnaught w/ Drop Pod X3: 420

I know it seems all or nothing with everything deep striking. But I was reading some ideas you had about what if your opponent castles and I thought throwing those Blood Lances in there will help out. Also, I went with flamer squads, because hopefully they will come in later and dispatch of all the infantry that is running around without transports. The Sanguinor is there because I just thought he looks great and wanted a hard to kill character in there that can beat face. I would do Mephiston, but no deepstriking means he will either get shot up, or come on later and never really get in the main fight. What do you think? "

Email in: Expanding to 2k Tau

“Hi Kirby,

I recently played in a tournament with my tau tournament list (I emailed in ages back, and took your recommendations) and placed first in the Junior/U21 category. Before you raise your eyebrows in surprise, there were only 20 of us in the category, and it was a swiss-style format. Long, pointless, story short, here I am asking for more advice on how to build a 2k tau list. Here goes:

Shas'el w/ TL MP, target lock - 73
Shas'el w/ TL MP, target lock - 73

3 Shas'ui w/ MP, PR, multitracker - 186
3 Shas'ui w/ MP, PR, multitracker - 186
3 Shas'ui w/ MP, PR, multitracker - 186

Email in: From a Venerable Dreadnought who has been slumbering since M32 [comp & stuff]

This is going to be a very light snowmobile on my behalf as I want to get to bed! We've got two more e-mails two deal with (I think Puppy is posting them) but we'll prob be replying them a bit later than normal as we'd like to get back to our normal programing! As usual, my comments in blue and this will be a bit more light-hearted as Zenos and I go way back....way (what, last week?).

From the Venerable Dreadnought Zenos. Something witty...

I read your reply I was unaware bankers were literate =D to your post with some interest on the Sweedish issue and tournaments in general. What follows are some things that perhaps both sides of any comp vs non comp environment might consider. I will introduce myself here to your readers. I have been playing 40k and Fantasy now since 87. Thats before Kirby was born, and as we have joked I have figures older than you... and I have seen the rise and fall of now 5 variations of the 40k system and everything from 3rd edition fantasy onward. I also have and do play such games as Advanced Squad Leader, GDW Europa, GMT stuff and a plethora of other games. Basically he has too much time on his hands! I feel I have a different perspective than perhpas a lot of your readers may have, but also might give some of you collectively pause to think.

Firstly let me say I do understand a frustration that anyone taking a gaming system and making adjustments too it, is going to divide a gaming community. Thanks. Way to make your first impression a good one. I knew you knew about psychological phenomena. After all who is to say what is fair for one list or set of rules is fair for another and in an environment of pure competition then it should be a level playing field so that rankings etc can be seen.

Centurion Update

Hi guys, fester here once again to give you a newsflash:
Centurion's missions have been updated, and we need some serious playtesting!

I understand the vast majority of you are out-of-country'rs, but I will be offering a prize (of some description) given to a random*  person who emails me a battle report of your experiences playing one of the following missions: Full details are available here: Missions

We are running the event based on the NOVA Format and it is a 4 tiered system (see the link above for all the gribbly details).

Marine codex 'review' (#10): jumpers

Assault marines: bad.

One of the cheapest 'assault units' in the game, but this is for a very good reason.
Much like tactical squads, assault squads are bound and chained by laws and rules older than time itself, forcing them to carry a big name, yet never be able to deliver, for they have a dark and terrible secret.

For 100 points, you get a sergeant and four dudes. In addition to all the standard equipment, everybody has a jump pack. Is this good or bad? It's actually very good. Cheap, fast marines are useful marines. Let's see what else they get.

Every fifth guy in the unit can buy a useless, now insanely overpriced plasmapistol, or a fairly costed flamer. Not impressed, really, an- wait.

Something's missing.
Where are all the lightningclaws, hammers, powerfists, rending chainswords, or even increased strength? Hah, no - they don't get any of that. No, no power weapons either.
Meltaguns? No way! The blood angels took all of them.

Email in: Crimson Fists army list [1750]

"Gday,

I am after some advice for a Crimson Fists army list. Being a converter and painter more than a player i have a number of armies but none really that competitve and i am a little lost with trying to create an army that is reasonably competitive. Ideally the force operates with an ambush or surprise style that the crimson fists have developed since being almost wiped out.

I have looked at blood angels (cos they have good msu options and fast vehicles), space marine (cheap vehicles), and black templars (excellent msu troops, but no scouts, rifleman, expensive vehicles for no reason) as the codex base but the lists i create just dont seem to be effective. I am after a fluffy list with focus on scouts, multiple small squads (combat squadding even), sternguard. With no terminators, bikes, or heavy vehicles (landraiders, predators etc).

Heres a rough guide of 1750 point thoughts;

Armies in 8th: Magic Part 7: Lore of Life

The lore…of LIFE! Oh joy. This is the ultimate buffing lore (it you know…provides life). Whilst this Lore provides a lot of defensive qualities, it has two direct damage spells and one of the defensive spells is a combat shield which damages opponent’s in btb. The ability to do some significant damage with life + the very good defensive spells make this one of the premier Lores in 8th edition. Overall, Life spells are easy to cast but are hugely better with Throne of Vines in play which augments 5 of the other remaining spells. The Lore attribute also allows the caster to heal a multi-wound model within 12” every time a Life spell is cast which ensures your casters and characters stay alive just a little bit longer.

Signature Spell - Earth Blood: Can only be targeted on the unit the caster is within but a cheap 5+ regen on multiple units is a very handy tool. Is it worth multiple low level spell-casters? Not as much as other Lores such as Fire but a couple level 1s or 2s can make your beater units a lot tougher with this spell cast.

1 - Awakening of the Wood: So-so range but very easy to cast and becomes very good if a unit is within a forest but this cannot always be counted on to be on the board (Wood Elves can at least guarantee that). Overall though not something to write home about by itself, especially since it cannot be taken by multiple casters.

Codex Orks Review. Part 1: Regular HQ's

:( The internet says I do :(

Well seeings as I am the local token Ork player, and very much enjoy hearing my own voice (or seeing my own writing, as the case may be), it's time for me to do some information posts on the one true Codex, Orks.

Now before we start, I have to do some prefacing.

1. Orks are crap in 5th edition.
In a true 5th edition, mech-spam type of metagame (metagame is a bad word, I know), Orks are crap. As a codex, they do not have the ability to really take out bulk amounts of armour.

2. Orks are awesome in 5th edition
In a non-mech metagame, or in groups still running 4th ed style lists, the changes to the 5th Ed rules makes Orks freaking awesome a majority of the time.

3. Orks have 1 thing 90% of other armies don't have.
Thats right, Orks have 1 thing 90% of the armies don't have, inbuilt humour. There are no other codices that I can think of where having your prized psyker blow its own head off is actually something you will chuckle about. Saying that, there is nothing funnier than seeing Eldrad pop his top... as long as its not your Eldrad.

4. Green is da best.
It is. Kirby will edit this to say Pink is da best, but he is wrong. Orks is da best!

Email in: about [Swedish] comp

Here is an e-mail from a Swedish fellow furthering the discussion on comp. My comments will be in blue as I felt replying to his points in-text would be a lot easier for everyone. Snowmobile debate style!

Hi, Will! He knows my naaaaame!

My name's Erik. Hello. Swedish, of course, and fascinated by the comp-discussion regarding your latest blogg (and, of course, Abusepuppy's). You was asking about some information about comp to help you understand it better and so I will try to give an answer. I'm writing in a second language and so spelling errors should be frequent but I've tried to make it readable. Better than us who know only one :P. Also it's a long post. I'll understand it if it's not interesting enough to read through but I'm hoping you will read it anyway :-).

First up: I won't change your mind. My hope is to give an understanding about why it has become something regular on half of Swedish tournaments. But I have never heard one to change their mind about comp when speaking about it. I've seen some changes when it comes to actually gaming (in both ways!) but never when discussed on a forum or likewise. So I'm not even going to try. Fair enough for strong contenders for either side but these discussions help irk out ‘the truth.’ The majority of contributors and readers here are strongly anti-comp for the reasons I will explain but as Puppy has said, if comp is shown to work excessively well and do what it sets out to do, we would use comp as well. We aren’t blinded by our beliefs but rather decide based on information and I think through this e-mail we will find our information differs.

Since there's seems to be several opinion that past experience is extremely important I'm going to introduce myself. It’s not here at least. Good ideas are based on merit, not who’s saying them. Oh if only the world could operate so. I'm a hardcore Tyranid player that has had some success on tournaments (and a lot of...not-so-successfull-days, too). I've organized about 5 larger-than-30-participants-tournaments and several smaller ones in the latest couple of years. Two have been "uncomped" and three with some sort of comp. I'm not pro comp per say, more of a pro variation. I'd like to vary my gaming experience with both comped and uncomped tornaments... now that's maybe a lie. I think I'm more of an "play-at-what-ever-you-can-kind-of-guy" but if I had to choose between a tournament that's uncomped and one that's not in a specific weekend, then I would choose according to whatever I've played least the latest time. I'm going to have my 30-year-old-crisis next year You’re a bit early for a mid-life crisis yes? Lol and been in tournament gaming about 10 years. My experience is purely about Swedish tournaments but I'm hoping for some brittish Grand tournaments in the future. My most successfull placements should be 2:nd place in the latest Fantasia Fanatica and 2:nd place in the Fantasia Fanatica that was before that. Fantasia fanatica is always uncomped (though they had three restrictions last time). Same bastard beat me both times...

Swedish Comp Part 2: Electric Boogaloo

Continued from here, where a lively discussion was going on. I promised some lists in the previous thread, and lists I now deliver.

Now, keep in mind some of these are predicated on a mech-light environment (and hence do not feature much Melta, etc). Depending on what kind of comp you are expecting, you could obviously modify these to suit your needs. Keep in mind that, by the rules as explained to us in the previous thread by daniel and several of the other posters, every +5 you can squeeze onto your comp is the equivalent of +1BP every single round of the tournament, so it is in your best interests to score as high as you possibly can without crippling your army.

(In a "threshold" comp system, of course, this isn't an issue and you simply need to keep yourself as minimally above the threshold as possible; depending on what that is, you can expect varying levels of "competitiveness" by our more common definition. A comp 60 threshold, for example, is almost impossible to spam transports, so you can safely leave some AT at home, whereas a comp 40 environment it becomes very possible to do so, so consideration must be given.)

So enough of that: lists! I'll put some comments after each one. Because these are rough lists, I expect that they could be improved upon by some enterprising players and many of them are slightly over in points, since I didn't feel the need to finalize those last few points of tweaking. In all cases comp score is listed first, at the top, followed by points total, and then the unit list, with comp values for each of them.

FailMail: Famous VassFail Lessons and BatRep

Well folks, I received this in an email from one "Ronald Lendurad". It is a sad tale of epic playing failure and is full of shame. If you ever meet this "Ronald" make sure you mock him endlessly for this battle and never give him a chance to live it down, for it is truly....hilarious. With that said, "Ronald" did tell me about himself. Apparently he's a moderately competitive player who's rusty and out of practice and decided to warm back up to the game with 1750pts match on Vassal, seeing as his nearest LGS is very, very far away. I am going to ruthlessly critique his BatRep in hopes to provide some of the newer and younger players some invaluable lessons and "Don't Do's" that we, the experienced veteran gamers, sometimes take for granted. And so, without further ado, I present to you...FAILDAR: A Vassal Experience.

This was my....I mean "Ronald"'s initial set up. He's the Space Pups in the bottom right. He said the Mission was Seize Ground, they had the 3 Objectives you see above, and Deployment was Spearhead. His opponent had first turn as well. His opponent was wielding the mighty and feared "FootDar"! Army lists were basically:
Footdar: 5X minimal Guardian squads with either EML or BL, 2X WW squadrons with Scatter, Eldratar, 1X Squad of Harlies

Crazy Ideas #3, Part 3: fester's idea Cont'd

Wizards of the Coast

Continuing from my last post...

So today, my Dragon and Undead arrived. Well done Wayland. Add me to your list of satified customer. fester will take bribes for more good PR. Ahem

So when I left you, we were talking about my list and the modelling opportunities for the army.

3 MC scale necromancers

2 MC scale shooting platforms

2 MC scale flying shooting platforms

3 40mm barrage shooting platforms

There was only one easy to choose model out of all of these.. and that was the 2 MC scale flyers.

What else flies and shoots alot? Dragons. Right, so I need a cool looking Dragon, who makes one... Hmm..

Oh, I know.

  

Marine codex 'review' (#9): the useless stuff.

Techmarine: bad.

Anything that consumes your elite choices has to be very good, preferably at combat, while sticking to the marine fundamentals.
That's really the rule.

"So what about the techmarine?" people ask. If I were to say 'he's a horrible waste of time, points, and an elites slot,' not many would disagree.

But really, is he? Yes, he really is, but for completeness sake, we'll look at what he brings, and why he's so bad.

So, 50 points base. Default marine kit, only artificer armor instead of power armor. He gets all the expected skills and abilities, and like the master of the forge, he can repair things. Still a bad power, but it's there.
You also get 'bolster defence,' so in case you tool up for a table with a million terrain pieces in your deployment zone, you can build a 'badass' gunline with 3+ cover save for all.

Something is obviously wrong here, however. Look that profile.
One wound? Tactical marine statline? What happened, Ward? Old techmarine was too powerful, with his two wounds, and extra attack?
5o points for a tactical marine in artificer armor. Any invulnerable save? Nope. Any big guns included as default? No. Combat implements of doom? A single servo-arm.

Alright, so without extra stuff, techmarines are obviously horrible. Let's see what's available to bling him with. Pick one of stormbolter, combi-bolter, and plasmapistol. How nice. One useful gun (combi-melta.) What else? Pick a thunderhammer or a power weapon. On a guy with one attack, at 50 points base? No, thanks.

Reply: Swedish comp

AbusePuppy posted something about Swedish comp to encourage us to try and break the system and have a few giggles along the way whilst also pointing out how ...well meh the whole concept of comp is. Swedish forum hits back! Some pretty funny comments when you translate it. Let's get a couple things straight.

Stelek and I are not the same, very different writing styles, very different egos, very different responses to critcisms, very different blog styles if aimed at a similar goal of encouraging good play. Last time I checked I also get out and play games, amazing isn't it. You'll also note that I don't walk around beating my chest and saying I win all games and crush opponents at tournaments, etc. Some people don't seem to get this so it's out there now (again). We also understand you start from a number (120) and subtract, good for you in reading English as Puppy clearly states that in his post.

Ya, we don't like comp. Last time I checked I was at perfect liberty to buy models with my money and use the rules GW set out for me. Oh, apparently you'd like to modify those? Well woopdedo, it's a wonder I don't like comp because you get to change 40k to what you think is fair.

Email in: Was reading 3++ and though I'de ask advise about a list I'm building [1750 SM]

"Hey Kirby,

I've been reading abit on your blog and while I don't agree with everything you say, I'de like your opinions on a marine list I'm building, it's going to be for Australian tournie play next year, but I'm not all that worried about Comp, I just want to play some games with a strong list. So please, share your thoughts and changes if you would make any, I'm curious for your opinions, this is a Salamanders marine army if that matters, so trying to keep 'in theme'

HQ
Vulkan

ELITES
5 Assault Terminators
-5 Thunder Hammers and StormShields
-Land Raider Redeemer with Extra Armour and Multi Melta
redeemer is there for theme, but I could swap it for a crusader

Black Templar Bikers: Close Combat Hybrid

So... surprise, surprise, Firepower over on B&C was not happy with the biker list I put together for him. Apparently BT fluff says they like CC? Who knew? :P

Laeroth, myself and I'm sure some others looked at trying to make CC bikerz 'competitive'. We looked at BT options for bikers before so this should be reasonably easy. We all know why marines are not the best in CC, so we need to do our best to change that. Well, we know that BT bikers are expensive and trying to gear them for CC makes them all the more pricey - an IC to add some punch is pretty much a must. The list kinda needs a cheap gimmick, because we don't really have the points to build-in enough of a support element.

Immolator Spam: Blood Angels style

BrotherLoring was being a mean person last night and disparaging on Koopa's new BA list (which you guys will see soon when he posts up his pile of boxes :)) which Chumbalya helped him put together. Put it like this, it's the only Hybrid BA list I like. So some e-peen thrown back and forth and we got talking about who does Immolator spam better, Sisters or Blood Angels? After all, BA can get more of the chasis overall thanks to ASM and their ASM make them pretty cheap. So let's check it out. Oh and let it be said nothing ever good comes from insulting people haha.

Immolator spam isbased around a lot of AV11 chassis with TL-heavy flamers roaring towards the opponent and dumping meltagun troops in their face whilst using blocking techniques like tri-rhinos and then proceeding to tank shock, flame and melta crap to death. The latest incarnations of Immolator spam add Imperial Guard platoons as firesupport with autocannons (and objective holding) to make it even more fearsome. BA in theory should be able to do this even better with actual fast vehicles and Baals w/flamestorms but will have less melta to throw around. Let's see what we can come up with.

We obviously want to build our list around ASM in Razorbacks w/TL-Heavy Flamers. Add in a meltagun and infernous pistol and each of these guys costs 145 points, 5 points less than a Celestian squad with much better defences and on par offensive ability. Flamestorm Baals are an important part of this army for BA as well as it adds AV13 to the mix and an AP3 template. The drawback is it doesn't carry any meltagun troopers. 6 ASM RBacks and 3 Flamestorm Baals sets us back 1215 points so we've got just under 800 points to spend on HQ, Elites and Heavy Support.

Armies in 8th: Magic Part 6: Lore of Light

This is the 'anti-undead/daemon' Lore. For any themed lists against Daemons or Undead, this is the Lore for the stories! Let's check out if it's actually of use in game however. The Lore attribute inflicts and extra D6 hits on Undead and Daemon targets if it normally inflicts damage but otherwise gains no benefit against 'normal units.' The spells are generally easy to cast however and focuses primarily on buffing units with some minor damage aspects involved.

Signature Spell - Shem's Burning Gaze: At level one this spell is pretty much the exact same as Fireball but doesn't have the casting bonus of Fire Magic or the appropriate level 2 and 3 castings. Shem's level ups the strength to an impressive 6 and doubles the casting range but triples the casting cost which is very prohibitive. For a basic magic missile though it works pretty well. With the Lore attribute, this spell is very damaging en masse against Undead and Daemon armies but it's not as effective against other armies unless you have a ton of Magic Dice to throw away on level 1 spell-casters.

1 - Pha's Protection: A protective spell which makes weapons and close combat attacks less likely to hit. This is particularly effective on large units which are targets for warmachines which don't roll to hit but need to pass a 4+ to shoot (which can make them very inaccurate). Otherwise the spell is easy to cast and has a decent range but importantly can effect all units within 12" with a moderate casting cost of 12. This can make an army of warmachines very ineffective and greatly improve an army's surivability in combat and against shooting.

Swedish Comp: Hilarity Ensues

Those of you who have been hanging around in the char recently may have seen this humorous little abomination. For those not interested in clicking the link, it is a (English language) guide to what I am told is the Swedish comp system. Oh, but this is no ordinary comp system, this is something out of your darkest nightmares. At least it provides you with definitive guidelines of what comp is rather than an 'understanding' by the general community making it even more subjective than normal.Shush, you. That's for another article.

Armies start with 100-120pts (depending on the codex you use) and each force selection and wargear option adds (or, more commonly, subtracts) some number of points. According to our resident Swede Vt2, 50pts is considered "bare minimum" that is allowable in a tournament- 60 is a "hard" list, 80 is "fluffy."

So what are these penalties like? Well, a meltagun is straight -1 for every one. Almost every unit in the game is likewise a -1, although there are plenty of exceptions. (It should be noted that these numbers are theoretically balanced for 1500pts.) Some units are as high as +4 (Vespid Stingwings) or as low as -25 (The Nightbringer.) Oh, that's right- named characters of any kind are anathema to this system, as are mechanized lists. In addition to simply penalizing you for taking dedicated transports (always at least -2, and more commonly -3 or more) you are also charged a bonus amount based on the number of vehicles in the list- so your first Chimera is at normal penalty, the second and third are an extra -1 per, third and fourth another -2 each, etc. MCs likewise take a hit, as do many other "overpowered" selections.

The hate-on for 5th Edition doesn't end there, though. Drop pods or any other kind of reserve army? Get ready to lose all your comp points. Power Fists? Gonna cost you. Heavy/special weapons? Enjoy watching your score plummet. Essentially, anything you would actually want to spend points on, anything that isn't a total waste of your time, is at least -1. Some units are hilariously penalized- Broadsides, for example, will cost you -13 for a single squad of three with ASS. (Additional squads are even more pricey.) Vulkan costs you straight-up -20 (oops, -8, with an extra penalty for every weapon he affects) in addition to whatever you had to shell out for melta, flamers, and hammers. (Hint: not a small amount.) The list goes on, and on, and on, and on.

Email in: A hello and a nid list for giggles

"Hi Kirby,

I have been enjoying your blog a lot of late, so much so that I decided to email you to say so (first time I've email anyone in the 40k blogsphere and I look at a lot of blogs). Keep up the good work, right now 3++ is the first place I check for updates on my daily surf sessions.

So like you I play Tyranids and like the new dex. Hard sometimes to convince people its a solid dex. Main argument I see is the reasoning that there's only one basic build. That might be true, but its still pretty early in codexes life cycle and I think there's alot to the dex that needs to be explored beyond just list hammer. I've been trying a few ideas out on units or combos I doubt anyone has tried, nothing really earthshattering though. Mostly lictors + trygon hive commander lists so far -- fun but as one would expect gimped in alot ways too.

Anyways, I had another build idea I was considering trying on vassal (never tried it though) as I would need about $200 in models to really play this. Thought I'd run it by you. Very possible its been posted here or in the blue shark tank but I don't recall quite the same list.