tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-600589111118264680.post359279896215340098..comments2024-03-10T21:35:32.778+11:00Comments on 3++ is the new black. | Kirb your enthusiasm!: Lords of Terra: Final Thoughts Part 2 (comp & paint)Anonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07693773850422698445noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-600589111118264680.post-46989580455960324492010-07-28T07:18:30.554+10:002010-07-28T07:18:30.554+10:00Oh, Convictcomp systems: The irony is for a countr...Oh, Convictcomp systems: The irony is for a country largely built by criminals there appears to be a lack of cut-throat events over there.<br /><br />I was originally thinking that it was better to have the detailed table for painting but on closer inspection that just looks really anal. If you are running a tourney and using points outside scoring surely keeping them as simple as possible is the way to do things? <br /><br />Something like: <br />1 point for 3 colours<br />1 point for based<br />1 point for conversions<br />1 point for squad markings<br />1 point for details<br /><br />Simples. Saying that I'm still not fond of awarding points for painting - I think its better to have more prizes for the better painted ones.Stormyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10527705644047298716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-600589111118264680.post-453970221962758142010-07-27T18:56:54.602+10:002010-07-27T18:56:54.602+10:00Lol, I look forward to attending 3++ con, sounds l...Lol, I look forward to attending 3++ con, sounds like you have everything worked out.Lurker from Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00263435520446292981noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-600589111118264680.post-68699585060227226732010-07-27T09:54:58.066+10:002010-07-27T09:54:58.066+10:00@Vinsanity - I'd rate both those lists a 4/5 a...@Vinsanity - I'd rate both those lists a 4/5 according to my understanding of the Aus idiotic Comp Scoring.<br /><br />Essentially, only the best possible Chaos list goes below, and gets a 3...TheKing Elessarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04981821487098781957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-600589111118264680.post-92012440314996930192010-07-27T00:48:47.629+10:002010-07-27T00:48:47.629+10:00Ya I said something like 24-27 (24 if I was docked...Ya I said something like 24-27 (24 if I was docked points for bases/paint job on the extra Termagants). Vince gave me the painting guidelines so here we go:<br /><br />Standard (out of 15) : - Are the majority of your models painted to at least 3 colours +6; is the army fully painted (3 colours and WYSIWYG) +6; are bases painted and textured +1; does army look like an army, same uniforms etc +1; squad/unit markings to distinguish squads +1<br /><br />12 for the first two. My whole initial army was fully painted and out of the extra 25-30 Gants I had, 80%+ were 3 colors or more. Everything was WYSIWYG. +1 for bases and +1 for uniform, everything was the same. I wouldn't say +1 for markings as they were hard to see but he suggested different head colors...which detracts from army uniformity... So 14/15 there.<br /><br />Extras (out of 15) - fluffy squad/unit markings (extras like knee pads, tattoos, brand marks, barcode (wtf a barcode?), strategic coloured toxin sac (strategically coloured wtf? lol) 0-2; details painted like eyes, grenades, etc 0-2; blending shading 0-2; centrepiece standout 0-2; freehands 0-2; conversions 0-4; extra effort put into bases 0-2\<br /><br />Nothing for beginning, details were painted (claws, eyes, veins, etc.) so +2. Blending and shading was the whole army...+2 and my centerpieces were all on 60mm bases and taller than everything else with more color and depth added...+2. Conversions +4. There aren't any Tervigon or T-Fex models. No freehanding so nothing there and blending/highlighting on bases is extra effort I think? +2.<br /><br />Bonus (out of 6) - Judge discretionary points 0-5; player paint army themselves +1<br /><br />I clearly got 0 for discretionary points and I painted it myself so +1. <br /><br />That's 27 all up and seems reasonable. As a judge I might dock a couple for the so-so spawned gants or just give 0 discretionary points but we are looking at least 10 more than what I was given on a checklist...lovely.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07693773850422698445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-600589111118264680.post-17841193442727719812010-07-27T00:42:17.944+10:002010-07-27T00:42:17.944+10:003++con eh? I'd be up for that!3++con eh? I'd be up for that!Benhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17969119817707187826noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-600589111118264680.post-55729883409497492172010-07-27T00:33:08.998+10:002010-07-27T00:33:08.998+10:00-looks at progress of tyranid post and pics-
Pain...-looks at progress of tyranid post and pics-<br /><br />Painting score 28/36. At least! The bases on the extra gaunts would be the only thing bothering me about the painting.<br /><br />I agree with ya that it is my belief that best painted should be separate from tournament scores. Bonus points for having the 3 colors and highlight etc but nothing out of hand. If it was me hosting a tourney, the paint and sportsmanship (which I think to be a awesome idea and have not seen at local tourneys I've observed thus far) should be for a separate prize.Jt3nhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12246752003287521363noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-600589111118264680.post-85728932338858731942010-07-26T22:51:43.490+10:002010-07-26T22:51:43.490+10:00@Eltnot; I did. The above 5 point system is mine, ...@Eltnot; I did. The above 5 point system is mine, not theirs. Honestly as said by others and by me here often comp should rarely be used. Penalise people all you want for gimmick armies (they suck anyway) and give bonuses to people who bring armies who are actually fluffy. You know, Wolf Guard with individual wargear, mono-Chaos, etc. <br /><br />@Vinsanity; Thanks Vince for Dom's score, couldn't remember his name. He deserved a 5. What did the Eldar player you played last get? Tim didn't deserve a 3.3 in comparison as he took all at least decent units and they combined well, etc. When you consider my ratings about and when you walk around the tables...most people were looking at a 3+ and only a couple of 1s (me included) and a smattering of 2s. Glad you don't like comp now though :). End of our stupid arguments! Do a post :p.<br /><br />@Borkai; spot on. I also knew this coming in and only focus on the General prizes (which I admit, I failed at miserably). My painting score...meh, I'm an above average painter and my Tyranids reflected this and yet...shafted ^^.<br /><br />Again I'm more irked by the paint, I knew comp was screwed going into the tournament but feel bad for players like Vince, Dom & Kyle who had softer lists and yet weren't given the advantage they deserved. This is what comp is for yes?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07693773850422698445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-600589111118264680.post-67786612170086730632010-07-26T22:05:26.111+10:002010-07-26T22:05:26.111+10:00Comp is very rare here these days, and have been s...Comp is very rare here these days, and have been since about 2008.<br />People have learned to enjoy A-games instead, and only tiny tournaments stick to the silly comp rules.VT2https://www.blogger.com/profile/13922615677851541327noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-600589111118264680.post-65342157157067634562010-07-26T20:34:17.305+10:002010-07-26T20:34:17.305+10:00Nice wrap up, sorry to hear about the inconsistenc...Nice wrap up, sorry to hear about the inconsistencies. Really whatever the breakdown of points, it doesn't matter as long as there is consistency... A marking scheme before the comp helps people be prepared for the most competative score possible, and should be adhered to even if it is wrong, (wrong meaning a comp explanation that is biased towards a particular race or style of play, or even overlooks a powerful build). <br /><br />As for the style of tournament, I go to a tournie to play, to have competitive games. I have been guilty of the prime/proxied models and sauce bottle for terrain on occassion AT HOME, and am not a huge fan of painting, BUT I know that and know I will never score well for painting. Because that is not what the hobby holds for me. <br /><br />Tournament organisers can't make everyone happy, we are all in the hobby for a slightly different mixed of the aspects, from painting, gaming, fluff, modelling etc. It is best to go to the tourney and enjoy it for what you want. That said if I were ever to get a best general or something, I may lament how my comp and painting scores sucked and I only came 10th overall... but I came to play competitive and that is what I would have done so I shouldn't bitch!<br /><br />Consistency is vital for organisers, transperancy is also crucial, I suppose the last is that they understand the game well enough to have well prepared tables and missions that are challenging, so that the better general on each table will be able to outshine his opponent.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14434382459126453054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-600589111118264680.post-24667281079124376752010-07-26T20:27:51.363+10:002010-07-26T20:27:51.363+10:00I hear you Kirby. I am all for a best sports or be...I hear you Kirby. I am all for a best sports or best presented army award but they should take play any part on the actual tournament results.<br /><br />Comp has no place in a tournament because it is so subjective and its probably the biggest reason why I haven't bothered to get into the local Aussie Tournament scene. When it comes to a tournament it should be purely down to your performance on the table - not these 'soft scores'.Oz Dazzahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03279471044998861615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-600589111118264680.post-57807654413601200182010-07-26T20:22:55.838+10:002010-07-26T20:22:55.838+10:00Ah comp nerdrage, music to my ears...
Some points...Ah comp nerdrage, music to my ears...<br /><br />Some points to remember, the judges were basically asked to give you a score out of 10. One judge will give the army 3, another might give it a 4. You should score somewhere between 3 and 4. Complaining about the margins you guys appear to be is pointless as the only reason those decimal places come up is because not all of the judges have given exactly the same answer. If you make it more in depth than that, it simply takes too long to mark the lists. The systems used for Army Comp/Handicap, aren't perfect, I'll happily admit, but they're a lot better than the awful abomination that is the US tournie scene. I think I'd rather cut off my left testicle than be forced to endure it.<br /><br />I'd suggest that instead of wailing on any inconsistencies, why don't you put your energy to improving the system.Eltnothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04771937999492760222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-600589111118264680.post-13804017299125003032010-07-26T19:44:49.866+10:002010-07-26T19:44:49.866+10:00Yay, a 2.1 comp score when I had a 225 point wolf ...Yay, a 2.1 comp score when I had a 225 point wolf lord? Fluffy? Like hell it is, what not to love about a tooled up hero?. <br />Made to win? Only wanted to win one game to leave happy as larry(which I didn't get lol).<br />They were really inconsistent throughout. And yay an encouragement prize! That's like saying 'sorry you suck, have this and give us more money next time!' Despite Matt Archer commending me on nearly beating him (forgot to use my scouts properly, cost me dearly).<br /> <br />I hope they fix up their scores, especially if I go next time (and to other tournies aswell). Got to find someone who wants to trade me an Imp Guard heavy weapon team...or start a Guard army.The Wolf's Lunchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09522394005002390217noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-600589111118264680.post-31404419504038591122010-07-26T19:42:36.834+10:002010-07-26T19:42:36.834+10:00This is pretty much exactly why I dislike comp- it...This is pretty much exactly why I dislike comp- it's a purely subjective approach to scoring and basically gives the judges free reign to assign whatever scores they want to people. Yes, many comp systems have guidelines as to how scoring should be done. Key word: guidelines. What if you disagree with them? I greatly doubt there is an appeals process or anything of the like (and even if there was it would mostly be flooded with people who just want more points and are willing to throw a fit about it.)<br /><br />>So wtfbbq is going on here? Well the only theory that fits is that these 40k pros don't know shit about the game and especially what a fucking balanced army is.<br /><br />This basically summarizes the 40K tournament scene most places.AbusePuppyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07413248837734103198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-600589111118264680.post-66051116699371658102010-07-26T17:45:03.482+10:002010-07-26T17:45:03.482+10:00Firstly, I can't imagine how difficult it woul...Firstly, I can't imagine how difficult it would be to run a tourney, especially one with 2 tourneys at once and 50 and 40 people respectively. So a huge Kudos goes out to Mark, Alex and Marks missus for the work they did and its a shame to see Mark isn't doing it next year :(. Saying that,<br /><br /><3 Will, you had a beautiful army with an oldschool tyrant and old school fexes and conversions galore and bases which apparently Alex didn't like (but hes a bit queer that way isn't he? :P)<br /><br />I was in slight theoretical disagreement with you about comp but after this tourney I agree with you almost 100%, comp should be out of the equation or perhaps a very very small part of the overall scores you can get. In that questionaire they gave out I said 5% for comp and 10% for painting and 75% for battle and 10% for sports which is what I estimate about right. Perhaps more points on painting 15% and less on sports 5% and then if there are any nobs who are rotten sports then a quick word to the TOs would notify them and they can try and sort it out or just dock the nob the points for sports...<br /><br />But this comp issue then begs the age old question of how does one adjudicate comp? Well, I still haven't come up with an answer tbh, I don't think there is one absolute way to do it but your comp 1-5 lists looks ok. What definately didn't work however was fucking 'penal' :P judges.<br /><br />(Nerdrage on!) There 6 absolute pros of the 40k game who I am imagining are sitting in some castle chamber (or nerds basement) or whatever and snickering like fat greedy englishmen when they award a 2.1/5 to Kyle who according to the scale had a tougher SW army list with only the best choices selected in order to win games convincingly and leave the enemy soundly beaten. Right. <br /><br />I got a 2.1 as well which merits the same characteristics. My 'efficient' tri las pred and possessed Vindi and 1 unit of 3 Oblits, 4 x 7 PMs in Rhinos with stuff and a Nurgle Prince. Sound like a hard army? I concede the Rhinos and PMs are tough but it doesn't appear to be a hard army by any means...<br /><br />Will got a 2.3 which is moving towards 'balanced army' on their scale but is still around the hard army terms. His list was notably tougher than mine and I'm sure most people will agree here. I didn't want to play his as I thought it would pwn me quite well... And Will gets better comp than me and Kyle?<br /><br />Dom who I played in the second round had a 2.6/5 with his CSM and his list was Kharn, Slaanesh lord on DSteed with DWeapon, 3 x 5 Slaanesh Marked CSM with PW Champions, 2 x 9 Khorne Beserkers with Fist Champs in Rhinos, and 2 x 2 Obliterators. Hard list right? Going to convincingly beat anyone? <br /><br />So wtfbbq is going on here? Well the only theory that fits is that these 40k pros don't know shit about the game and especially what a fucking balanced army is. They are bias from the outset about possibly waht armies they collect, like, dislike, etc. They most noticably give higher comp scores to older codexes which I can understand, but don't blanketly do this. the 2 Dark Eldar armies got 3+/5 and most noticable, CSM got like 2.1 and 2.3/5 almost irrespective of what they contained. Only one CSM army out of like 6 or 7 got higher than 3/5 and most got the 2.1. Dom should have gotten a better comp score, Kyle should have gotten a better comp score with the SW.<br /><br />Well if you want to check out the army discrepency and adverse score issue, just go onto http://www.lordsofterra.com/GT.htm and look at armies tab and comp tab and there you go, a whole bucket of fucking inconsistency and bias comp scores (/nerdrage).<br /><br />Fark this is long, maybe I should have made a post about it :DVinsanityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15154706024284406147noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-600589111118264680.post-49952521398388456762010-07-26T17:13:54.600+10:002010-07-26T17:13:54.600+10:00Earlier on this blog that is. Check: Tyranid Progr...Earlier on this blog that is. Check: Tyranid Progress in the search function.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07693773850422698445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-600589111118264680.post-83947746752858911582010-07-26T17:13:29.775+10:002010-07-26T17:13:29.775+10:00Aw Chumby *blush.*
There are some pics earlier pi...Aw Chumby *blush.*<br /><br />There are some pics earlier pika-power but they are pretty bad but you can at least see the shading, highlighting and base work on them. The bat reps will be up over the next couple of days so you can check them out there too (some of the pics are decent for that) and will take an army shot with nice lighting when I get home mid-week.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07693773850422698445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-600589111118264680.post-17666029267657647702010-07-26T16:45:26.128+10:002010-07-26T16:45:26.128+10:00Have you got Pictures of your models anywhere here...Have you got Pictures of your models anywhere here?Phttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01492467419598866918noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-600589111118264680.post-50797005751289048632010-07-26T16:00:43.904+10:002010-07-26T16:00:43.904+10:00You go girlYou go girlChumbalayahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15543857960730597490noreply@blogger.com