tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-600589111118264680.post4400969771679530257..comments2024-03-10T21:35:32.778+11:00Comments on 3++ is the new black. | Kirb your enthusiasm!: Swedish Comp Part 2: Electric BoogalooAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07693773850422698445noreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-600589111118264680.post-27655477462429565492010-09-24T03:46:30.643+10:002010-09-24T03:46:30.643+10:00I understand the scoring system, but as I said, &q...I understand the scoring system, but as I said, "take one, contest the others" is a solid strategy when you're already planning on wiping out the enemy.<br /><br />Not knowing the Swedish metagame I can't say for sure, but Stelek's shooting lists, well played, are absolutely devastating (unless you play with ridiculous amounts of terrain, like 50% coverage or more.) Not to knock the skill of the players involved, but I expect lack of experience with the list- as opposed to more general lack of experience- may have been what did them in. 50+ games with a particular list is generally what I assume is needed to be "good" with it, and if one doesn't have that level of practice in, especially if it's a style of list unfamiliar to you, play is going to suffer.<br /><br />(To be honest, the lists I've prepared here aren't really anything like what I generally run, either, with the exception of the Stormraven one. Most of them are adapted for high-comp environments and thus don't have many anti-vehicle measures, whereas I normally cram rather a lot into my lists.)<br /><br />I'm glad we are able to maintain a civil discussion tone- I've certainly learned a lot from talking to all of you and how Swedish players view the game. (Obviously most of my experience comes from the U.S., but I've also talked at length with British and Australian players as well as some German and French, so it's interesting to see another take on things.) Even when I think I'm right, I try to keep the possibility in mind that I am not, because obviously the other person has good reasons to have come to their conclusions as well.<br /><br />Hopefully I will get to post some of the other emails I've received here soon and possibly explore some of the topics in a bit more depth. And hey, we'd love to see all of you hang around 3++ and comment; as you say, it's always interesting to get a new point of view on things. ^^AbusePuppyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07413248837734103198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-600589111118264680.post-37750024703786939812010-09-23T18:34:09.066+10:002010-09-23T18:34:09.066+10:00Point understood and I do not argue with it, but a...Point understood and I do not argue with it, but a list with just 1 scoring does not work in the swedish environment, cause the missions seldomly are binaer, it is seldomly win or loss, more scaled as I tried to explain above. <br /><br />We are very teoretical here since you haven't had the chance to try the system in any large scale. I like what you do with the comp and the lists however, they look very diffrent from what we see at the swedish tourney scene, diffrent climates brings on a certin dialect to the lists creations I guess. <br />In general the lists we see getting good recommendations on the internet arre from the states and many of teh are deemed useless in sweden, the extreme shooty lists that is. I have had friends that have tried the Stelek builds and ended in the bottom quarter of major tournaments, while he ususally end in the top quarter. <br /><br />I think list builds and comp are extremly interesting subjects, and I really like the tone here now, it feels more creative and less judging, even thou it is clear where you gentlemen stand in the matter.<br /><br />Best regards<br /><br />DUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07936955625425379793noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-600589111118264680.post-21876029060858295822010-09-23T18:00:56.897+10:002010-09-23T18:00:56.897+10:00The point Puppy is making is he can make better or...The point Puppy is making is he can make better or similar lists in terms of raw competitiveness than the two above but with higher comp scores and thus do well in games and get buffed by comp.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07693773850422698445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-600589111118264680.post-19264100801232634482010-09-23T17:50:31.420+10:002010-09-23T17:50:31.420+10:00Abusepuppy - The BA list is strong in the swedish ...Abusepuppy - The BA list is strong in the swedish competative meta game, cause alot of times there is a objective scale, one objective more 7 -3, 2 objectives more 9 - 1 3 objective more 10 - 0 and then you need more then one scoring to win big, but in general I try not to put emphasis on the troops since they seldomly bring any punsch to the game and just costs points, except for in my opinion, Tervigons and warriors w lashwhip and bonesword.<br /><br />The Tyranid list is as you say not extremely strong, it has played well, but suffer hard if I meet fast and high S shooting armies, like alot of typhoons, and in general, I dislike armies with apperent weaknesses.<br /><br />I just try to make a point that you can do and use hard things, you do seldomly gain in doing weak lists with high comp, there is always a balance between comp and "hardness" in the army, if you do a comp 80 list that can draw against anything bellow 50 i comp and win against basically anything over it, you have a "good" list in a comped environment.<br /><br />Best regards<br /><br />DUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07936955625425379793noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-600589111118264680.post-40669392940420010552010-09-23T15:07:50.774+10:002010-09-23T15:07:50.774+10:00If you can sacrifice small bits of your force for ...If you can sacrifice small bits of your force for a 30% gain ratings at the tourney, it's probably an exploit of the system. We'd be more then happy if any exploits were fixed, but we'd be even happier if the comp was balanced so exploits didn't matter too much.Sagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11166288577481375016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-600589111118264680.post-64782343805719084672010-09-23T09:27:56.543+10:002010-09-23T09:27:56.543+10:00Wait, so just taking the basic squad in a Chimera ...Wait, so just taking the basic squad in a Chimera sets you back -25? Jesus you guys sure do hate IG.<br /><br />With regards to the two lists posted:<br /><br />The BA one is pretty much like the SR list I came up with, but 30 comp lower. It has the benefit of a pair of scoring Plasmabacks, but has a weaker hammer unit, and I expect the fight between the two would basically come down to whoever's hammers could break the other.<br /><br />The Tyranid list simply isn't very good, and certainly not very good for a list that is starting down 45 points of comp. You have a fair number of T6 wounds, but not enough to really frighten me.<br /><br />Obviously my assessments of these lists aren't absolute; I could be totally wrong about how well they play. However, my expectation would be that I could consistently field something just as strong and ~30 comp higher than the "standard," which will net me a HUGE bonus towards winning the tournament.AbusePuppyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07413248837734103198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-600589111118264680.post-30116454947019080262010-09-23T06:56:57.606+10:002010-09-23T06:56:57.606+10:00BTW - It is slightly wrong preceived in the IG lis...BTW - It is slightly wrong preceived in the IG list, it says: -5 per psyker (-2 if there is no chimera.) so every squad will set you back -12 and not -2<br /><br />I really like the Space wolf list, similar to one of my high comp lists I am thinking of fielding, mine is however not as extreme.<br /><br />Best regards<br /><br />DUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07936955625425379793noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-600589111118264680.post-34901342425077198082010-09-22T22:09:44.926+10:002010-09-22T22:09:44.926+10:00One of my favorite schizo quotes ever perhapse:
J...One of my favorite schizo quotes ever perhapse:<br /><br />July 26, 2010 8:34 PM <br /> VT2 said... <br />Comp is very rare here these days, and have been since about 2008.<br />People have learned to enjoy A-games instead, and only tiny tournaments stick to the silly comp rules. <br /><br /><br />HAHAHAUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07936955625425379793noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-600589111118264680.post-50708654455754785762010-09-22T18:43:42.427+10:002010-09-22T18:43:42.427+10:00errata: it should be 2 x 10 seercouncil not 20 x 1...errata: it should be 2 x 10 seercouncil not 20 x 10Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07936955625425379793noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-600589111118264680.post-65121086596306113712010-09-22T18:43:00.739+10:002010-09-22T18:43:00.739+10:00My point beeing, the argument, why can I not play ...My point beeing, the argument, why can I not play with my toys I bought... Usually you can, but if you only own 20 Nob bikers a few Kanz, 2 warbosses and 20 grotz or 20 x 10 seercouncil on bike, 2 warlocks, 9 eldar jetbikes... you'll probably have a trouble playing in comped tourneys, but you are very welcome in uncomped, cause there we see these kind of lists almost every uncomped tourney you see 1-2 seercouncil and 1-2 mongoloid nob bikers and every other internet list out there.. But we don't see them on comped tournaments, even tough I have seen 1 unit of mongo bikers or seer council on even comped tournaments, but then the rest of the list is filled with crap.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07936955625425379793noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-600589111118264680.post-69845715710680013902010-09-22T18:36:58.274+10:002010-09-22T18:36:58.274+10:00Lists that have worked very well for me in Sweden ...Lists that have worked very well for me in Sweden are:<br /><br />Librarian - Unleash rage, Blood lance.<br /><br />Furioso dreadnaught w Blood talons<br />Furioso dreadnaught w Blood talons<br />Sanguine guards w 2 x Infernus pistol<br /><br />5 Assault marines<br />1 Razorback w Las-plas<br />5 Assault marines<br />1 Razorback w Las-plas<br />5 Scouts<br />5 Death company w 1 x Infernus Pistol & 1 x Powersword<br /><br />1 Storm raven w Las & Melta<br />1 Storm raven w Las & Melta<br />Placed 1, 1, 4, 6<br /><br />1500p <br />Komp 50<br /><br />Nids<br /><br />Prime w Adrenal glands, regenerate, Pair of bonesword<br />Tervigon w Catalyst<br /><br />2 x Hiveguard<br />2 x Hiveguard<br />2 x Zoantrope<br /><br />10 Termagaunts<br />1 Tervigon w Onslaughter<br />7 Warriors w bonesword & lashwhip, toxinsacks, rending claws<br />5 Warriors w bonesword & lashwhip, toxinsacks, rending claws<br /><br />1 x Mawloc<br />1 x Mawloc<br />Placed 3, 4, 7,<br /><br />I don't know what it comps in the newer system, but it used to be around 35 in komp on 1750<br /><br />Both are quite hard and competetive lists I think and as you see, it is possible to do not so lame as lists with the comp system.<br /><br />/DUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07936955625425379793noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-600589111118264680.post-49830774218416540942010-09-22T12:00:30.062+10:002010-09-22T12:00:30.062+10:00@My
>The type that can handle all kind of situa...@My<br />>The type that can handle all kind of situations. Basically an army must be able to handle tough vehicles, light vehicles, transports, massed troops and so on.<br /><br />The thing is, depending on comp value, you're simply not going to realistically see all those things. You're never going to fight more than one Land Raider in a comp60 minimum tournament, and with only one in the opposing army you just spend the whole game avoiding it and working on the rest of their forces. You likewise aren't going to have to fight significant (5+) transports for the most part, because it's simply too crippling, comp-wise to do so. (Running five Rhinos alone is -19 comp.)<br /><br />These lists are all "extreme" because the comp system punishes most balanced lists pretty hard- I could make some balanced lists, but there are very few options there. You'll note most of them run only minimal troops- this is because all of the good troops (Grey Hunters, Tacticals, Tervi/Termi, etc) are saddled with major penalties that simply make it not worth it to try and use them in the normal ways. Rather, they play to simply annihilate the enemy, scoring objectives only incidentally and denying the enemy their objectives.<br /><br />>I can only say that I've been participating in these kind of tournaments and seen people try this and it doesn't work.<br /><br />2-3 squads of troops is usually quite sufficient for MEQ armies. Obviously other armies can work differently, but no (good) army invests heavily in troops in order to score objectives. The rule that is generally bandied about is "hold one, contest the others," although this is predicated on Rhinos and other cheap objective-contesters, which your system punishes. Having multiple squads of troops will leave your army deficient in other ways, ways that all of these armies can exploit, and once the rest of the army has been swept off the board it's largely irrelevant how many troops you have, as they can't possibly do enough to fight the hard hitters in my army.<br /><br />I haven't heard a lot of specifics on on your missions other than scoring being 10 for objectives and 10 for kills; presumably you use kill points or victory points to measure the latter? Assuming you use some variant of the basic objective missions (as opposed to "wacky" things, like "two objectives, only Elites can score, only vehicles with less than 32 armor can contest" kind of nonsense) then I am confident in saying that these armies will be able to go at least 10-10 with anything within ~30 comp of them and crush most armies on their comp level. (With a bit of tweaking and optimization, of course. As I said, they're all rough builds.)AbusePuppyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07413248837734103198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-600589111118264680.post-7810057855431134832010-09-22T11:52:40.637+10:002010-09-22T11:52:40.637+10:00Ya my parents always said I should be a lawyer. I&...Ya my parents always said I should be a lawyer. I'm also told I could sell an Eskimo a freezer. People are so offensive.<br /><br />What? Oh ya, I do psychology lol.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07693773850422698445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-600589111118264680.post-46410627865577339652010-09-22T11:06:58.508+10:002010-09-22T11:06:58.508+10:00My, one of the problems with faith in anything bey...My, one of the problems with faith in anything beyond the perfect is that it's flawed. That's kinda why the bible suggests not having faith in anything beyond God.<br /><br /> I'm asking for an argument. Kirby is VERY good at arguing, as you can see from his disassembly of the e-mail in the other thread. Ask him to help you, I want to be proved wrong in this. It makes for such more interesting discussions. :)<br /><br /> As to Tau and Troops, Fish of Fury isn't efficient. It is, unfortunately, more efficient just to 1-troop it, with Kroot Bubble-wrap that MIGHT grab 1 objective, then to take more then one. For Tau. Marines in a mech-heavy build, for example, will probably take 2-3 tactical squads. But they have firepoints in rhinos, and heavy weapons. Tau don't have them in Devilfish, and thus suffer for it.<br /><br /> I can see what I'd like the system to be. I can see it has major flaws (disallowing regular builds such as Marine Armour saturation and Eldrad? Never mind if they're good, people want to play them, but I guess that's part of the trinary choice, they can go uncomped or not play), minor flaws, and maybe some good things, but it isn't my system. I don't need to apologize for it.<br /><br /> It's like the political choices of the U.S. government, they're proven to be horrendous, but it's not my fault (if I had the resources, I'd try to mitigate them). And it's not yours either, so look at the comp list, and explain to me what you find right, and what you find wrong.Sagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11166288577481375016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-600589111118264680.post-83227818982316145112010-09-22T07:53:01.382+10:002010-09-22T07:53:01.382+10:00@Sage: (regarding using less Troops). I might have...@Sage: (regarding using less Troops). I might have agree upon the reasoning if the system hadn't been tested. But...I really can't explain in more detail than...that theory is wrong, in practice. This blogg's readers are not first in trying this. Even if you just wanna prove that you could disrupt the system...<br /><br />This is awkward. I can only say that I've been participating in these kind of tournaments and seen people try this and it doesn't work. I hate to say it but I kind of hoping that you'll just take my word for it (actually, I'm hoping you will try it out, to find the answer yourself :-) ). I'm basing my opinion on actual gaming in this system - and that says it most likely won't work.Myhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10457069676875015649noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-600589111118264680.post-14114681076940912402010-09-22T06:32:30.193+10:002010-09-22T06:32:30.193+10:00Sorry if I was a bit harsh in my last post. But w...Sorry if I was a bit harsh in my last post. But we see tons of weird choices here. Is it going to be perfect? No. But should it do really bizarre things? No.Sagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11166288577481375016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-600589111118264680.post-78551869424477218152010-09-22T06:30:40.210+10:002010-09-22T06:30:40.210+10:00@ My: The experiences of the more active players ...@ My: The experiences of the more active players here have suggested that you pay too many points and sacrifice too much firepower for 4 scoring units. Instead, get 2-3 (depending on army obviously, some armys <3 their troops), then contest/blow up the competition.<br /><br /> I'll give an example. Tau Troops are T3. FWs get 4+ saves, Kroot are bubblewrap, and get cover saves from shooting if you're lucky. Now you're suggesting 4 scoring units. Now I want to be able to transport these guys. So I've got to get transports. And now I have to bling out transports, because I took points from my offense, to do lesser offense/protect the troops inside the transports. Or watch as my Fire warriors get grinded to dust from assaults/shooting.<br /><br /> Nids can field Tervigons to mitigate this, as an example, but I'm going for an army I'd play.<br /><br /> I can almost see why Australia black-boxes it's comp score. People don't want to be penalized for taking the choices they like. You've now met a bunch of people that the comp list would hurt.<br /><br /> But it creates choices, right? Well, there's the choice of NO YOU CAN'T TAKE ELDRAD. Well, without a bunch of swooping hawks. As many as you can take, really. There's also the choice of -2 comp for Sniper Drone Teams, a Tau heavy support unit that's doesn't field enough firepower compared to other choices, plus pinning doesn't do much to mech/fearless units.<br /><br /> Comp penalizes things here. It shouldn't. It should buff bad choices/bad units, and that's it.Sagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11166288577481375016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-600589111118264680.post-84824418704329319042010-09-22T05:56:35.832+10:002010-09-22T05:56:35.832+10:00I noticed I might have just repeated what was alre...I noticed I might have just repeated what was alreyade posted. If so - sorry. Puppet, did you get anything out of my answer? I'm not sure it will matter if I post and army list - in Swedish tournaments it's important with balance in the army and killing stuff only gives you about 8 of 20 available points (assuming the opponent doesn't get at least 300 points from you) and I'm sure you could post something that will work in such a environment.Myhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10457069676875015649noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-600589111118264680.post-89112599204484805992010-09-22T05:52:55.439+10:002010-09-22T05:52:55.439+10:00This comment has been removed by the author.Myhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10457069676875015649noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-600589111118264680.post-75628410340157790462010-09-22T05:50:14.690+10:002010-09-22T05:50:14.690+10:00@Abusepuppy; I have no doubt you could make a hard...@Abusepuppy; I have no doubt you could make a harder list by sinking your comp a couple of notches (hell, probably a harder list with the same comp). But my point is more of the type: if you can make an hard list - chances are that your opponent can do it as well. When you come to an tournament the system have balanced itself out. <br /><br />The basic Swedish tournament-missions forces different strategies - sometimes you need to hold back and sometimes move forward and the high comp lists posted here usually lack the chance to "do everything" which is many times needed in a tournament. I can agree that no list made here is by default "weak lists" but they have a tendency to hope for perfect opponents. <br /><br />The lists posted here are more of the extreme type. I'd like to see more balanced lists as examples. The type that can handle all kind of situations. Basically an army must be able to handle tough vehicles, light vehicles, transports, massed troops and so on. And have about 4 scoring units (you need two in perfect locations to take 8/20 points (the rest is 4 points secondary and 8 points for VP - as an example). This forces some balance in the army and I'd like to see what you make for kind of army then, while assuming everything isn't going to go peachy? <br /><br />/ErikMyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10457069676875015649noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-600589111118264680.post-30290422579617688642010-09-22T05:30:07.110+10:002010-09-22T05:30:07.110+10:00Also note that your online version is a perfect-qu...Also note that your online version is a perfect-quality PDF, compared to lesser scanned versions.<br /><br />@Henrick: So, in a game where you COMPLETELY FLOOR him, noting that Eldar aren't that great in this version, and that the suggested lists are slightly tweaked versions of the usual build, you'd beat him by 1 point. In your 1 bs/5 comp example, if you beat him 3 to 1, you'd get a minor victory.<br /><br />Lets try 10 points each, same examples. You have 9 comp BPs, he has 18. Difference is 4.5 as previously calculated. Your list has lower comp, so you get 5.5 (10-4.5) actual points. His list has higher, so he gets 14.5 (10+4.5). So in an equal deadlock, he beats you 2.63 to one. Do you really want to calculate a 15-5 win his way?<br /><br />Totally balanced system.Sagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11166288577481375016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-600589111118264680.post-84773621560992652722010-09-22T05:28:16.163+10:002010-09-22T05:28:16.163+10:00This comment has been removed by the author.Sagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11166288577481375016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-600589111118264680.post-11978104443370705582010-09-22T05:16:22.198+10:002010-09-22T05:16:22.198+10:00Thud: 'Not happening. Ever. "O hai thar, ...Thud: 'Not happening. Ever. "O hai thar, gamers. GW here. These units, yeah these ones, DON'T buy them!" About as likely as a year without any Imperial codex releases. There's a reason why they have done a 180 on their ridiculous SC policy, ya know. '<br /><br />@ Thud: Cause, you know, people buy SO MANY vespids, Sniper Drone Teams, Krootox, and ethreals. I'm sure people could toss in examples of other codecies that have similar problems. Then they could offer an online version of the codex (discount if you bought the codex before/included in new codecies). Online = less printing costs/easy distribution. You want to torrent it for a bit, or just toss out a tenner and get a pdf?<br /><br /> If they buffed all the races a bit, giving a bit of love to units that need it, and fixing little bits of armies that needed fixing, they could dramatically increase profits by forcing us to basically open-beta test it.Sagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11166288577481375016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-600589111118264680.post-60990579618729215732010-09-22T02:32:48.069+10:002010-09-22T02:32:48.069+10:00@Henrik
May have been mistaken on the 1BP/5comp, ...@Henrik<br /><br />May have been mistaken on the 1BP/5comp, thought I had read that in the previous thread.<br /><br />>You see, the effect is actually much smaller than what you might think in the first place.<br /><br />Except that, in your example, you _crush_ me 15-5 and comp turns it into... what is basically a tie. And this is with me not even getting the full benefit of my comp. (If I was playing a system capped at 90, I would modify my list to suit.)<br /><br />These lists are weaker than the lists I would run in a non-comped tournament, but they aren't weak lists. The Space Wolf, Tau, and Tyranid lists in particular are basically slimmed-down version of things I have seen take 1st in tournaments and even go to 'Ard Boyz (although that isn't saying a lot.) The BA Storm Raven list from the previous thread (using Sanguine Guard, which is a big improvement for it), is extremely dangerous to most lists that are possible with comp.<br /><br />Adding three Rhinos to a foot list should lower your comp by at least -11 (-3 per Rhino, -2 for vehicle tax). It only makes it marginally better, because vehicle saturation is what makes them strong- when your force is split like that, it becomes less useful. (Some lists can do it, but I doubt the hybrid lists I am thinking of are anything like what you are thinking of.)<br /><br />@My<br />It would depend on the environment. As I said, these lists are created in a vaccum; if I knew more about what is popular at tournaments, or what kind of comp I was designing for at a particular tournament (what the max/min values are, whether it's threshold or modifier, what level of comp lists most people bring, etc) I could arrow in on a better list. These are examples to show that I _can_ do basically anything with comp.<br /><br />Would you care to post an example of what you consider a strong 80pt list? I could easily strengthen these by ditching some comp, but I'm curious what you see as a "strong" list. While I like my Tau, I am pretty sure they would roll to several of the other lists I have there, especially without Markerlights.AbusePuppyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07413248837734103198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-600589111118264680.post-11381143857863053612010-09-21T22:56:44.879+10:002010-09-21T22:56:44.879+10:00@VT2: Mech is seen on the table. Didn't you sa...@VT2: Mech is seen on the table. Didn't you say that you don't play in this kind of system? How come you know so much about it? There _are_ mech armies, there are armies with scatter-laser-walkers and a lot of able armies. As Henrik put it; why are you lying? If you have to lie to make a point I would say your point isn't that good...I've played in these kind of tournaments and tell you that they are not that good.Myhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10457069676875015649noreply@blogger.com