Hey Kirby,
I was hoping you'd be willing to help a novice player with aSpace Marine list. I have two lists, a biker and a mech list.
Biker List:
HQ
Space Marine Captain (Space Marine bike, relic blade)
165
Space Marine Librarian (Space Marine bike)
Psychic powers: Null Zone, Avenger
135
Troops
Space Marine Bike Squad (5 Bikers w/2 meltaguns, Sergeant w/combi-flamer, Attack Bike w/multi-melta)
245
Space Marine Bike Squad (5 Bikers w/2 meltaguns, Sergeant w/combi-flamer, Attack Bike w/multi-melta)
245
Space Marine Bike Squad (5 Bikers w/2 meltaguns, Sergeant w/combi-flamer, Attack Bike w/multi-melta)
245
FA
Land Speeder (heavy flamer, multi-melta)
70
Land Speeder (heavy flamer, multi-melta)
70
Land Speeder (heavy flamer, multi-melta)
70
HS
Predator (heavy bolter sponsons)
85
Predator (heavy bolter sponsons)
85
Predator (heavy bolter sponsons)
85
TOTAL: 1500
This list seems pretty self-explanatory. Predators hang back and whale on transports and footsloggers while the bikes and land speeders zoom up and destroy stuff that look at them funny.
Mech List:
HQ
Librarian (jump pack, combi-melta)
{Null Zone, Avenger}
140
Troops
Tactical Squad (9 marines w/ flamer and multi-melta, sergeant w/ combi-melta)
{Rhino Transport}
215
Tactical Squad (9 marines w/ flamer and multi-melta, sergeant w/ combi-melta)
{Rhino Transport}
215
Tactical Squad (9 marines w/ flamer and multi-melta, sergeant w/ combi-melta)
{Rhino Transport}
215
Elites
Dreadnought (twin-linked autocannon x2)
125
Dreadnought (twin-linked autocannon x2)
125
FA
Landspeeder Squadron (heavy flamer, multi-melta)
70
Landspeeder Squadron (heavy flamer, multi-melta)
70
Landspeeder Squadron (heavy flamer, multi-melta)
70
HS
Predator (heavy bolter sponsons)
85
Predator (heavy bolter sponsons)
85
Predator (heavy bolter sponsons)
85
TOTAL: 1500
I'm leaning towards this list simply because I have the librarian and one tactical squad bar the multi-melta. I didn't know what to do with the HQ slot so I decided some psyker defense couldn't hurt. Slap a jump pack on him so he can keep pace with the rhinos and a combi-melta in case he feels like peeling open a tank. A chaplain or a captain didn't seem to fit since they help a sucky tactical squad in close combat suck a little less so I didn't see the point.
Looking forward to your advice and feedback!
Lists and emails like this make me happy. Both of those lists are spot on. The only change I might make would be in the 2nd list to drop a speeder for a scout squad for the Libby to sit with (dropping the JP gives you enough points to buy camo and an ML or HB for the squad, too) but with the libby hiding behind the Rhinos and then joining a squad once it bails out is fine as well, just beware people are going to try and get ID lines on him.
I think out of the 2 the mech list is the stronger. Bike slow'n'fast really gets it's kicker at 2k where you can put dreads/preds/typhoons in on top of the bikes and whilst at 1500 it's still a solid list, the mech one rolls a bit better.
So on list building, well done Josh. Play a few games with them and let us know how you go and if you need any help on tactics we can work from there. The hardest part for most people is the list building and I think you've done an excellent job for a proclaimed novice.
13 pinkments:
Thanks Kirby!
If I go the Scout route, there aren't enough points for camo cloaks. I only have ten points left over. I don't really want to get rid of the Librarian's combi-melta. Maybe I can give Scout Sarge a combi-flamer or -melta instead. Leaning on flamer since I can't think of any outflanking vehicles besides Valkyries and Vendettas (and flamers are wicked awesome!). Any non-assault specialist would think twice about getting too close to two flame templates and tying them up.
I'm also helping my friend and his brother make an Imperial Guard and Tyranid list respectively. I may bug you with those soon. ;)
I think if you're running a full-Rhino mech list (ie, no place to put an HQ), turn to our helpful friends the Ordo Hereticus. 5 IST with 2 MG and a Rhino (with smoke) for 120 (123). If you can pull of the Rhino switcheroo, even better. Now you have a scary AT and anti-troop Rhino, with a bigger Hood Radius. Drop a Pred, and the Libby's JP and CbM to make it happen. To stay "fluffy" give them shotguns and use scout models.
@GWvsJohn
What is the "Rhino switcheroo"?
If you make the second list with the Space wolves codex, you have enough points to build this:
- Runic Priest
- 2x 10 G. Hunters (2xMeltas), Rhino
- 1 x 9 G. Hunters (or Blood Claws) (Flamer), Rhino
- Dreadnought (2xAutocannon)
- Dreadnought (2xAutocannon)
- Dreadnought (2xAutocannon)
- Landspeeder (Multimelta, H.Flamer)
- Landspeeder (Multimelta, H.Flamer)
- Landspeeder (Multimelta, H.Flamer)
- Predator (H. Bolters)
- Predator (H. Bolters)
- Predator (H. Bolters)
And you still have 10 points left.
SM Rhinos have 2 fire points but Tacticals are usually content shooting 1 weapon
WH Rhinos have 1 fire point but IST have 2 special weapons.
It makes sense for them to swap rides, which means you have to deploy in the ground and mount up turn 1.
SW list doesn't get combat tactics :P Not bad, but not exactly interchangeable.
I like both of these lists a lot, just the flying solo Libby has me concerned.
"SW list doesn't get combat tactics :P Not bad, but not exactly interchangeable."
Yeah, but they have other advantages.
The most important difference is that at 1500 points level, every point counts. With Space Wolves you can save enough points to include one extra Rifleman and reducing one GH unit to 9 men is not really a big problem. Losing ALL you special and heavy weapons is really not an option. Losing one melta (or taking a single flamer) is not as hard.
If you want to go with the original Best Off approach instead of Rifleman Dreads, you can always build this:
- Runic Priest
- 2x 10 G. Hunters (2xMeltas), Rhino
- 1 x 9 G. Hunters (or Blood Claws) (Flamer), Rhino
- Dreadnought (Melta)
- Dreadnought (Melta)
- Dreadnought (Melta)
- 2x Landspeeder (Multimelta, H.Flamer)
- 2x Landspeeder (Multimelta, H.Flamer)
- Predator (H. Bolters)
- Predator (H. Bolters)
- Predator (H. Bolters)
1 Extra Landspeeder or Rifleman Dreads?
But try to build this kind of list with Space Marines and tell me how many units you lose.
At 1500 you need to min-max as much as you can. And Space Wolves can do that better than Space Marines. Or at least that's how I see it.
PS. Sorry for my bad English, I'm from Spain =D
GWvsJohn's idea is sound though like the scout idea you lose a speeder and so is MakurA's but that's a different style of list. The SM have a lot bigger midfield presence in their Rhinos essentially move up and control midfield whilst GHs generally move up more al la IG Vets. The extra suppression fire is obviously nice but they are different list styles so assuming he wanted to stay with the army he picked and SM does do mech well (unlike say someone trying to do an ASM army with vanilla) it's best to stick with the author's original army :P.
Thanks for the help!
I think I'll go with the IST route if my local GW has a copy of the WH Codex. (Why did it disappear from the GW site?) If not, I'll do the Scout squad.
The DH and WH COdexes have been removed from sale, along with the blisters...you know, like they did with Wolves a year and a half ago...or Nids in October... ;)
Well since I can't find the WH Codex and if the pattern King Elessar says will continue, I'll go with the Scout Squad. Here is the revised list.
HQ
Librarian (combi-melta)
{Null Zone, Avenger}
115
Troops
Tactical Squad (9 marines w/ flamer and multi-melta, sergeant w/ combi-melta)
{Rhino Transport}
215
Tactical Squad (9 marines w/ flamer and multi-melta, sergeant w/ combi-melta)
{Rhino Transport}
215
Tactical Squad (9 marines w/ flamer and multi-melta, sergeant w/ combi-melta)
{Rhino Transport}
215
Scout Squad (4 scouts w/3 sniper rifles and 1 heavy bolter, sergeant w/ sniper rifle and combi-flamer)
95
Elites
Dreadnought (twin-linked autocannon x2)
125
Dreadnought (twin-linked autocannon x2)
125
FA
Landspeeder Squadron (heavy flamer, multi-melta)
70
Landspeeder Squadron (heavy flamer, multi-melta)
70
HS
Predator (heavy bolter sponsons)
85
Predator (heavy bolter sponsons)
85
Predator (heavy bolter sponsons)
85
TOTAL: 1500
Looks solid Joshy, let us know how it goes.
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