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"Pink isn't a color. It's a lifestyle." - Chumbalaya
"...generalship should be informing list building." - Sir Biscuit
"I buy models with my excess money" - Valkyrie whilst a waitress leans over him

Saturday, June 12, 2010

Which Land Raider should I take?

Well still going with the rather easy posts for the moment guys, sorry! On Warseer recently there’s been some discussion on why Crusaders are seen more than Redeemers. So I thought why not discuss the Raider variants so we can really break it down. We’ll cover Chaos LRs as well (so basically laugh at them) for completeness’ sake. Firstly, Land Raiders are expensive and one of the most survivable units of the game. However, they don’t like meltaguns (the avg. pen roll of a meltagun in melta range is a pen) as it essentially bypasses their expensive armor. This makes them great early mech train leaders as they protect the smaller chassis’ behind them and are much more likely to survive. Once you get close to meltaguns though, their survivability advantage diminishes quickly. However, their primary role is throwing an assault unit (specifically Terminators) down your throat and to do this they must get close.

From this understanding the Godhammer (standard Land Raider) seems a waste of points. Your main guns have a 48” range and would rather take advantage of this & it’s impressive AV to simply sit back and shoot. Unfortunately, this is a gross underuse of points. Yes it can be made scoring with a small tac/scout squad but like the Monolith, it doesn’t have enough potential damage output for its points. This is also the problem with the Chaos Land Raider but is further exacerbated by having no PotMS. That’s what you get for loving the Chaos gods! Normal Raiders can take advantage of PotMS to put a lascannon into separate targets but they aren’t railguns so are unlikely to get a double kill.

What about the other two then? They both take advantage of being a heavily armoured terminator transport (with frag launchers! Very, very important at times) with short ranged guns but still squeal like little girls at meltaguns; this really cannot be avoided. We’ll look at the Crusader first. First thing is this baby can take more passengers than any other variant. The extra capacity to fit in multiple ICs or more terminators can be very important in certain builds but isn’t really a decision changer unless you’re running one (...why?). However, this platform is a very capable dakka platform from 24” so is generally impacting on the field quite early and gets better as you get closer (rapid fire range and melta range for MM). This is really the key point. If an early immobed result gets slapped onto a Crusader (or it gets blocked), it can still significantly impact upon the field of battle. It is also capable of anti-tank and anti-infantry duties through the MM/TL-assault cannon. Add in PotMS for the MM and it has a decent chance of dropping a tank whilst still pumping out anti-infantry fire. The ability to move 6” and fire all of its guns also means it is more mobile than the other variants and coupled with its decent range doesn’t have to be in your face all the time to do this.

The Redeemer is the other “assault” transport with Frag launchers and short-ranged weaponry. The flamestorm cannons are really scary, no one likes S6 AP3 templates and this baby has two of them. This generally puts the Redeemers potential output and perceived threat as much higher than the other variants and is often thought of as much a threat as what it actually carries. This is a double-edged sword as more firepower will be focused here. If you have two raiders it can be a good idea to have on as a Redeemer to distract firepower from your other Raider or the rest of your army. However, the nature of this weaponry is also the Redeemer’s downfall. An early immobed result renders the Redeemer effectively useless. Unlike the Crusader who can affect the battlefield significantly from their immobilised position, the Redeemer becomes a big “go away” rock due to its limited ranged and can really be ignored from that point forward. This makes it significantly more “vulnerable” than the Crusader or Godhammer in terms of survivability.

Overall, the Crusader is the most reliable and balanced choice. The Godhammer suffers from a mismatch of roles whilst also suffering from a lack of general firepower. 250 pts for 2x TL-LCs + a TL-HB? Eh no thanks. Whilst the Crusader and Redeemer often run into meltarange, they both have significant output themselves and are an excellent delivery system for Terminators. Whilst the Redeemer is scary in its own right, the Crusader is more capable of affecting the battlefield from midfield whilst the Redeemer needs to be a lot closer. The combination of these two factors often makes the Redeemer less useful over the course of multiple games.

However, when running two Raiders the argument can be made for a Crusader/Redeemer line-up. The Redeemer is more likely to take early firepower due to the flamestorm cannons so more can be packed into the Crusader (i.e. ICs) to force your opponent to suffer the Flamestorm cannons or more combat ability once they hit your line. Otherwise I’d stick with 2x Crusaders and leave the Godhammers at home for the moment.

P.S. click the photo, that Raider is awesome. It lights up. Kudos to Johnny Worthen.

9 pinkments:

kennedy said...

I really like the Redeemer. I just do. There's something about it that appeals to the SoB player in me, I suppose (FIRE! in case you couldn't guess).

While I understand your point about why you think the Crusader is better, I have been underwhelmed with the actual damage output I have seen from Crusaders. Maybe it's just me, but I yawn when faced with a bunch of bolter fire.

Gx1080 said...


A bunch of bolter fire is still better than the big nothing that you get from your Redeemer after an early block. Which will happen. A lot.

kennedy said...

I know, I know. I just like the flamey one better. I really wish my Sisters could have one. It fits their mindset so well.

I agree that the Crusader is probably the better tank, but that doesn't stop me from maintaining that the Redeemer is way cooler ;)

The Wolf's Lunch said...

In my gaming group there are two Land Raiders. My crusader (with 'Lunch' written on a piece of parchment on the front) and a godhammer (with 'For The Emeror' on it. Yes that was a purposeful mistype of Emperor - they got a friend to paint it).

Naturally the godhammer sits on a shelf, only brought out to teach n00bs, but my crusader is used frequently now to catapult my lord and claws into the thick of it, supported by two rhinos and some long fangs.

You're right about the crusader's firepower, bring it into rapid range and not much infantry will survive unscathed.

Skellum said...

Even from a buyer's perspective the crusader/reedemer is a better option as you get both of them in the same box, while the godhammer you only get that. May not seem like much but you can buy the extras quite cheap and so have all 3 variants on the cheap.
That is if you know how to magnetise >.<

Anonymous said...

I'm actually a supporter of the Godhammer. I rarely use it because my termies need the frag launchers (I5 -> I1 hurts!), but it certainly has a place.

I would say I've rarely use the hurricane bolters in the rapid fire range to be honest. If you're getting that close, you want to unload the big boys, not trundle-up shooting the AP4/5 guns waiting to be shot -up by melta weapons, and unfortunately the old PotMS doesn't let me fire anything at 12".

For the BT codex in which Crusaders and Godhammers can be taken very readily, the Godhammer is often a good choice for a troop unit sitting on a home objective. Try popping AV14 at range if you don't have spammed railguns/lance weapons. Yeah, it's an expensive way of doing it... but an effective way of protecting them and some added ranged support.

I'd like to give the redeemer a try, but I can't really see it stealing the position of my Crusader on the battlefield.

Unknown said...

Crusader is like your swiss pocket knife, you always want one :P. Whilst 6-12 TL bolter shots aren't exactly scary, 11-17 shots from one unit (most TL'd) is pretty impressive. Whilst the Redeemer can get more with its flamers and tank shock you do have to get a lot closer (though there is nothing more satisfying than roll 10 2+'s and saying byebye).

@Skellum, very true. Magnetising isn't too hard though :P

Anonymous said...

I've found that the Godhammer is very, very good in a BA army. Take it as a dedicated transport for a 5-man ASM squad, add Shield libby and SP and voilà! Rock hard, scoring center of the army. While you certainly can do this with a Crusader too, I find the extra ranged AT to be more useful to the army as a whole than a few twin boltguns (and you've got Baals to cover AP fire anyways, right?). And the extra passenger space is irrelevant when using it the way I do.

Try it in a BA thunderbubble army. It's laffo.

I also think the Redeemer is the better Assault Termy transport. It doesn't suffer design contradictions when use in this role; just go all out into the enemy's face, firing the twin asscannon on the way, and unleash hell at close range. Yes, its going to be worse off than the Crusader if it gets immmobed mid-field, but then, 6 TL boltgun shots is pretty laughable firepower, so it's not that much worse off, really.

So unless you want squads of more than 6 termies, the LRR just seems like the smarter purchase, imo.

Nurglitch said...

It's called a Phobos Pattern Land Raider: Godhammer is the pattern of its Lascannons...

/pet peeve

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