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"Pink isn't a color. It's a lifestyle." - Chumbalaya
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"I buy models with my excess money" - Valkyrie whilst a waitress leans over him

Tuesday, June 29, 2010

Email in: Hi there! [Chaos 2k]

"I really enjoy your blog, very informative and entertaining. I have been reading through your series on armies in 5th edition and am really enjoying them. I am emailing you because I play chaos. I have been playing it since 1998 and the beginning of 3rd edition. Iron Warriors is my army and my google account name is Warsmith Morgoth, just so you know its me if i post anything on your site.

I am emailing you because I know I am playing with an extremely sub-par codex, but I have been using all of the ideas you've written about in your articles about 5th edition armies.

As I said before I play Iron Warriors. I have 10,000+ points of them painted. I generally play games of 2,000 points but have the variety of models to field whatever I want (for the most part). I don't play with cult troops, recently I've been playing with HQs that have a mark. Otherwise, all my units are basically marines and tanks.

The armies I field are fully mech with the exception of an oblit squad and sometimes terminators. I want to give you an army list I used this past weekend and I was hoping you could comment on it. You will see the the theme in my list right away, as I said I always play fully-mech lists and my usual opponents don't seem to get 5th yet, so I've been able to really give it to them because I know how to play mech and how to play my lists.

So on to the armylist.

HQ -
Sorceror, mark of Tzeentch, gift of chaos, warptime, personal icon, terminator armor

(This is not an ideal build for him I know, I'm still playing with HQs and can't settle on one I like yet, I wish i didn't have to take one at all honestly! lol)

Elites -
5 Chosen - icon of chaos glory, 2 melta guns, 2 flamers
in rhino

5 Chosen - icon of chaos glory, 2 plasma guns, 2 flamers
in rhino

Dreadnought - 2 ccws

9 marines - icon of chaos glory, meltagun, autocannon
1 champion - powerfist, combi-flamer
in rhino - extra armor, havoc launcher

9 marines - icon of chaos glory, meltagun, autocannon
1 champion - powerfist, combi-flamer
in rhino - extra armor, havoc launcher

9 marines - icon of chaos glory, meltagun, autocannon
1 champion - powerfist, combi-flamer
in rhino - extra armor, havoc launcher

Heavy support -
Predator - extra armor, 2 heavy bolters, 1 autocannon

Predator - extra armor, 2 heavy bolters, 1 autocannon

3 Obliterators


So what do ya think?

PS - I have been told by many people I should just play vanilla marines, but I'm so stubborn I can't bring myself to use loyalist rules.

Warsmith Morgoth"

Glad you enjoy the blog and it's nice to know I'm entertaining. I should get around to Armies in 5th for Chaos soon, really not sure why I haven't but still mentally organising how I wish to continue with those articles. Maybe this will kick start me doing them again. I think if you want to play a real mechanised list for Chaos you should simply spam Rhinos. 3x Chosen, 6x CSM, 3x Havocs all in Rhinos w/Havoc launchers, flamers and meltas is pretty lol. Not as good as Immolator spam but is taking advantage of Mech, chaosness (havoc launchers),  meltaguns and the joy of Rhino top hatches + tank shocking. The list you have given me is a bit more "Vanilla" marines and can be worked in that way but as you've pointed out, just isn't going to be as effective in 5th edition as other armies, namely Marines. So if you don't want to try out the Rhino spam list let's see what we can do with yours.

For the most part it's pretty decent but there's quite a bit of extraneous stuff which isn't needed. The personal icon, terminator armor, EA, dreadnought and plasmaguns are all prime examples of this. So let's see what we can get with a decent shooty aspect and midfield presence using Rhinos, Preds & Oblits. We want to stick with the Sorc model since any DPs will stick out like a sore thumb and don't really synergise well with the army. Unforunately, Chaos HQs outside of DPs aren't that fantastic so we'll keep ours as cheap as possible and stick him in a Rhino somewhere to shoot out of the top hatch. 125 pts for a BoC Sorc seems expensive but it's the cheapest we can bring who can also impact upon the battlefield. We've also trimmed a lot of points from the original guy. Next let's patch up the Chosen. Let's try something unusual. We'll keep the 5 guys, add a Rhino w/Havoc Launcher and then get 2x meltaguns (normal) + a plasma gun (not normal) and autocannon (not normal). That's 195 pts but at range we can get 3-4 S7 shots or do drive-by melta shots + the havoc launcher. We may trim this down later depending on points but for now, let's take 3.

The basic CSM squads are fine but I'd trim the Champion off. Re-rollable Ld9 and MEQ statlines means they are going to stick around for a while and they don't really want to be in combat much like Tactical marines (even though they are a bit better). Meltagun, autocannon, Rhino w/Havoc Launcher totals 220pts and we'll take another 3 of these. We're already at 1370 pts so let's check out our Heavy Support. I think what Warmaster has posted is fine minus the EA. So 2x Preds w/AC/HB & 3x Oblits sets us back with 205pts remaining and we've got equal if not more firepower than before at the cost of less combat prowess.

So we've got some options open to us now. We can take some cheap Biker squads for sacrifical melta, add another CSM squad (w/o Havoc Launcher), change the Preds to AC/LC preds or add in some more combat power. I think we can fit in some Biker squads and upgrades for flamers and still afford the jump to AC/LC preds (if not, no biggie). A biker squad x3 w/2meltaguns is a whopping 119 pts so that's not really helpful. What about Raptors? 120pts gets us 2 more models, less speed and the same number of meltaguns so that might also be a bit of a miss. What we'll do the is drop the 3x Oblits and a Pred for 2x2 Oblits, drop the Plasma gun from one of the Chosen squads (this will be the Sorc's ride) and add in either 2x Raptor squads or 2x Biker squads (I'm going with Bikers because you can hide them or have the option of zooming them). Let's then see what these changes bring:

HQ -
Sorc w/Bolt of Change

Elites -
2x5x Chosen w/autocannon, plasmagun, 2x meltagun, Rhino w/havoc launcher
5x Chosen w/autocannon, 2xmeltagun, Rhino w/havoc launcher

Troops -
3x10x CSM w/autocannon, meltagun, Rhino w/havoc launcher

Fast Attack -
2x 3x Chaos Bikers w/2x meltaguns

Heavy Support -
Predator w/HB sponsons
2x2 Oblits

Totals: 1993 pts (enough for an upgrade here or there)
7 tanks
56 infantry (6 bikes)

This sticks with Warmaster's original theme but streamlimes it a bit. We've taken out most of the combat prowess and added in a lot more ranged firepower. This list is very capable of moving into midfield and holding it or staying back and pounding away as effectively as Chaos can (which IMO fits the Iron Warriors fluff, but what do I know about fluff :P?). Whilst in comparison to Vanilla Marines it's lacking somewhat (i.e. Speedy meltas and volume), it is using the CSM codex and isn't exactly a terrible list.

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