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"Pink isn't a color. It's a lifestyle." - Chumbalaya
"...generalship should be informing list building." - Sir Biscuit
"I buy models with my excess money" - Valkyrie whilst a waitress leans over him

Tuesday, June 22, 2010

Email in: Space Puppies - Tournament List advice

“Hey Kirby,

I have been lurking 3++ for awhile now (great blog just btw :P) and I was wondering if you could give me some advice on a 1750 Tournament list. I played my first tournament about a month ago and I did ok for a first go (34/60) getting a possible 112/170 battle points, but I would always like to do better.

This is my first list I took.

HQ Points 110
Rune Priest (100)
Living Lightening & Murderous Hurricane, Chooser (10)

Troop Points 560
9x Grey Hunters (135) 200
Metlagun, MoTW,Wolf Standard & Drop Pod (65)
9x Grey Hunters (135) 200
Metlagun, MoTW,Wolf Standard & Drop Pod (65)
10x Grey Hunters (150) 160
Plazma, Plazma (10)

Elites Points 662
9x Wolf Guard (162) 417
3x Power Fist & Combi-melta, 6x Terminator armour, Drop Pod
Cyclone Missile Launcher, 3x Combi-Melta, 2x Combi-Plazma (255)
Dreadnaught (105) 160
Heavy Flamer, Multi-Melta, Wolf Tooth Necklace & Drop Pod (55)
5x Wolf Scouts (75) 85
Meltagun (10)

Heavy Support Points 415
Whirlwind (85)
6x Long Fangs (90) 160
3xMissle Launchers, 2x Plazma Cannons (70)
6x Long Fangs (90) 170
3xMissle Launchers, 2x Laz Cannons (80)

Total points 1747

I know exactly what i did wrong in my first few battles (the actual tournament was the second time I had used Drop Pods ever... which didn't help) and maybe it was just my foolishness that caused me to lose those games.

But my main irk throughout the tournament, was that my main CC prowess was coming from my Grey Hunter squads. Don't get my wrong I love them to death because they are the best troops in the game, but I kept thinking I needed something that has more oomph and staying power(ill admit I do own some modelled up thunder wolves, and I didn't use them this time because I'm trying to experiment), so I came up with this:

HQ Points 220
Rune Priest (100) 110
Living Lightening & JOTWW, Chooser
Rune Priest (100) 110
Living Lightening & Murderous Hurricane, Chooser

Troop Points 785
9x Grey Hunters (135) 200
Metlagun, MoTW,Wolf Standard & Drop Pod (65)
9x Grey Hunters (135) 200
Metlagun, MoTW,Wolf Standard & Drop Pod (65)
9x Grey Hunters (135) 200
Metlagun, MoTW,Wolf Standard & Drop Pod (65)
10x Grey Hunters (150) 185
Plazma, Plazma, MoTW & Wolf Standard (35)

Elites Points 295
5x Wolf Guard (90) 210
3x Power Fist & Combi-melta, 1x Terminator armour & Cyclone Missile Launcher (120)
5x Wolf Scouts (75) 85
Meltagun (10)

Heavy Support Points 450
Vindicator (115) 120
Dozer Blade (5)
6x Long Fangs (90) 160
3xMissle Launchers, 2x Plazma Cannons (70)
6x Long Fangs (90) 170
3xMissle Launchers, 2x Laz Cannons (80)

Total points 1750

It has more psychic defence & helps prevent an even larger area from infiltration, and it has even more of my favourite troops choice, which is the mainstay of my army. in the actual deployment, I would throw the 2nd Rune Priest and the CML Wolf Guard in with the 10man Grey hunter squad to be my Long Fangs bodyguards, and the combi-melta/fist Wolfguard to be attached to the scouts and the Grey hunter packs, and the first Rune priest with another Grey hunter pack.

So yea what do you think, I would love any advice and comments because it would be a great help, and so I can start scrounging around to get 2 more Wolf Standards, then im all set!”
First off goodjob on your first tournament and glad you’re enjoying the blog. So let’s get down to the list (2nd one). Whilst Grey Hunters are good, they shouldn’t be the main punch of your army. There’s also some fat we can trim, mainly the Scouts, Vindicator and non-ML guns on the Long Fangs. You’ve got meltas on the Drop so don’t really need the extra strength or blasts that the LC/PCs provide. Dropping these into 3 squads of Fangs w/ML will give you better damage potential and suppression fire. The vindicator should be dropped because of the close nature of your army, you don’t want to drop S10 AP2 pie plates on your own guys. Scouts are essentially an expensive meltagun which you don’t really need but can be used if you wish. So let’s drop the final Grey Hunter squad w/Plasma and see what we can do with those extra points we’ve saved.

With 3x6xLF w/5x ML, 3x GH in Pods, your WG squad and 2 Priests puts us at 1450 points, so 300 to play with. You can plop in 2x3 TWC packs without any upgrades for that and we’d like to give them both a TH & mbomb which means we need to shave 70 pts. Dropping a ML LF from each squad does this. I’d also change JotWW from one of the RPs to Tempest. This gives you some excellent DS defense and has more utility than JotWW IMO.

So here’s what we have edited:

Rune Priest w/Lightning, Hurricane, Chooser
Rune Priest w/Lightning, Tempest, Chooser
Wolf Guard x5 w/3x Pfist, combi-melta, TDA w/CML
3x9xGH w/meltagun, MotW, Wolf Standard, Drop Pod
2x3x TWC w/TH, mbomb
3x5xLF w/4x ML

Totals: 1750 pts
49 infantry
3 pods
6 cavalry

Now it’s not my cup of tea but it’s sticking with your original idea as much as possible whilst packing more combat oomph and shaving what wasn’t really needed. Pods + TWC movement ability provide a lot of pressure early on whilst the Priests + LF are providing transport popping and suppression fire from afar. WG split into GH and LF squads to provide more punch. Dropping some points here and there (I might drop the Hurricane Priest and then give the other one Sage of the Beastslayer) to afford PWeapons on the Grey Hunters which would give the unit more punch in combat. If you would prefer not to use TWC you might want to avoid a Podding list as nothing which is really combat oriented can keep up with the Pods and you may want to take a more midfield based list. Let me know if you’d prefer a different list or how you like this one.

5 pinkments:

Chumbalaya said...

I'm not a fan of Pods. They're too reliant on getting the drop on your opponent and fairly easy to counter. If you opponent puts out bubble wrap or reserves your Pods come in, don't do a lot of damage, and all that melta is wasted.

That said, if you're going to Pod, you need speedy support out there ASAP. TWC are great for this. Fangs are fragile as your only unit you have deployed, especially if you go second.

GH kill basic infantry fine, but they fall flat against stronger stuff, hence the need for TWC, a Wolf Lord, Arjac or something similar.

ben said...

thanks heaps for all the advice so far both of you.

I'm thinking that I might drop the pods, because in my LGS at least, (with my usual running rhino walls) I get my TWC stuck in and they are just too powerful for anyone to handle effectively. (ill be the first to admit that the other players at my LGS arnt the best.. but they arnt terrible.... even with my lack luster performance at my first tournament)

So what would you suggest if I wanted to stay away from the TWC( even tho i do like them). maybe a wolfpriest or homemade lord, or even ragnar with a bloodclaw squad or a tooled up GH squad w' arjac, or maybe even tooled up wolfguard squad in a crusader or redeemer?

Chumbalaya said...

Ragnar and some WG or GH in a LRC is a very potent assault unit, but it costs around 750 points. That's a lot of eggs in one basket.

Taking 3-4 GH units with embedded WG would be a passable assault unit, especially if you take plenty of firepower to whittle your opponent down. Of course, then you end up with what may as well be a furry vanilla list.

If you don't want TWC, how about a Thunderwolf Lord in a unit of Fenrisian Wolves? :3

Kirby said...

If you're dropping the GH's back to Rhinos you could try IPs on TWC w/cyberwolves? Certainly not as hard hitting as true TWC but gets you combat support for the GH. Could also use Lone Wolves or drag an LRC along. Wolf Lords on TWC or with Warrior Born (or both) are also options. Just need to make sure there are some more heavy hitters to support the GH who can deal with the gribblies.

ben said...

OK so how about this:

HQ Points
Rune Priest
Living Lightening & Murderous Hurricane, Chooser
Wolf Lord
Frostblade, SS, Runic Armour, Meltabomb & Thunderwolf
Troop Points
9x Grey Hunters
Metlagun, MoTW,Wolf Standard & Rhino
9x Grey Hunters
Metlagun, MoTW,Wolf Standard & Rhino
9x Grey Hunters
Metlagun, MoTW,Wolf Standard & Rhino
10x Grey Hunters
Plazma, Plazma, MoTW
Elites Points
3x Wolf Guard
3x Power Fist & Combi-melta
Fast Attack Points
3x Thunderwolf Cavalry
Thunderhammer & Stormshield
Heavy Support Points
6x Long Fangs
3xMissle Launchers, 2x Plazma Cannons
6x Long Fangs
5xMissle Launchers

Total: 1749 pts
Tanks: 3
Infantry: 53
Cavalry: 4
Scoring Units: 4

Forgive my love of the plazma cannons they perform amazingly for me and the use of 2x6man long fangs squads, I just couldn't fit the 3x5(even with dropping my plazma cannons).
You will notice I dropped the CML wolfguard, because I wanted to run my lord if I run the TWC, or is he overkill?

The reason I didn't go with the IP on TWC idea, is that I spent quite abit of time modelling up (and literally nailing the TWC to bases) and I wont have time to do the same for the IP's as i will be on a work trip until a weeks before the tournament.

but yea please let me know if i have got all the right ideas from your advice :P.

This was originally roughly the list I wanted to take to the tournament but my stupid brain told me to try something new that I had never played before. :P

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