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Thursday, July 22, 2010

Email in: 1850 Tau list, your opinions


"Kirby,

I have a 1850 tournament coming up and I hoping to get your opinion on my list. Couple quick points to help:
1) tournament registration is about 60% SM/CSM and 25% IG.
2) 4 missions, 1 annihilation (VPs, not KPs), 2 objective, and one table quarters (VPs determine tbl quarters)
3) I don't own any pirahnas, but thanks to your blog I will soon. Not before this tourney though.

I'm considering sacking a FW unit and the Shas'ui in the other and putting in Sniper Drone team instead.

I appreciate any input.

Here is my list: (Summary in easy to read format below)

1850 Pts - Tau Empire Roster - Unnamed
Heavy Support: Broadside Battlesuit (5#, 285 Pts)
1 Broadside Battlesuit @ 285 Pts
(C:TE, pg. 40); Acute Senses; Unit Type: Infantry; Team Leader; Twin linked Railgun; Broadside Battlesuit; Broadside Battlesuit; Smart Missile System; Hard-wired Drone Controller; Hard-wired Multi-tracker; Hard-wired Target Lock; Shield Drone; Shield Drone; Targeting Array
1 Broadside Battlesuit @ [80] Pts
(C:TE, pg. 40); Acute Senses; Unit Type: Infantry; Twin linked Railgun; Smart Missile System; Targeting Array
1 Broadside Battlesuit @ [80] Pts
(C:TE, pg. 40); Acute Senses; Unit Type: Infantry; Twin linked Railgun; Smart Missile System; Targeting Array
1 Shield Drone @ [15] Pts
Shield Generator
1 Shield Drone @ [15] Pts
Shield Generator


Heavy Support: Broadside Battlesuit (5#, 290 Pts)
1 Broadside Battlesuit @ 290 Pts
(C:TE, pg. 40); Acute Senses; Unit Type: Infantry; Team Leader; Twin linked Railgun; Broadside Battlesuit; Broadside Battlesuit; Smart Missile System; Bonding Knife; Hard-wired Drone Controller; Hard-wired Multi-tracker; Hard-wired Target Lock; Shield Drone; Shield Drone; Targeting Array
1 Broadside Battlesuit @ [80] Pts
(C:TE, pg. 40); Acute Senses; Unit Type: Infantry; Twin linked Railgun; Smart Missile System; Targeting Array
1 Broadside Battlesuit @ [80] Pts
(C:TE, pg. 40); Acute Senses; Unit Type: Infantry; Twin linked Railgun; Smart Missile System; Targeting Array
1 Shield Drone @ [15] Pts
Shield Generator
1 Shield Drone @ [15] Pts
Shield Generator


Troops: Kroot Carnivore Squad (13#, 109 Pts)
9 Kroot Carnivore Squad @ 109 Pts
(C:TE, pg. 37); Infiltrate; Unit Type: Infantry; Add Kroot Shaper; Add Kroot Hounds; Kroot Rifle (x9)
1 Kroot Shaper @ [28] Pts
Kroot Rifle
3 Kroot Hounds @ [18] Pts

Troops: Kroot Carnivore Squad (13#, 109 Pts)
9 Kroot Carnivore Squad @ 109 Pts
(C:TE, pg. 37); Infiltrate; Unit Type: Infantry; Add Kroot Shaper; Add Kroot Hounds; Kroot Rifle (x9)
1 Kroot Shaper @ [28] Pts
Kroot Rifle
3 Kroot Hounds @ [18] Pts
Troops: Kroot Carnivore Squad (10#, 70 Pts)

10 Kroot Carnivore Squad @ 70 Pts
(C:TE, pg. 37); Infiltrate; Unit Type: Infantry; Kroot Rifle (x10)

Troops: Fire Warrior (6#, 70 Pts)
5 Fire Warrior @ 70 Pts
(C:TE, pg. 36); Unit Type: Infantry; Add Shas'ui; Pulse Rifle (x5)
1 Shas'ui @ [20] Pts
Pulse Rifle (x1)

Troops: Fire Warrior (9#, 165 Pts)
5 Fire Warrior @ 165 Pts
(C:TE, pg. 36); Unit Type: Infantry; Add Shas'ui; Pulse Rifle (x5)
1 Devilfish @ [95] Pts
(C:TE, pg. 36); Unit Type: Vehicle (Tank, Skimmer); Burst Cannon; Gun Drones; Transport Capacity: 12 models; Transport; Disruption Pod; Landing Gear; Multi-Tracker
2 Gun Drones @ [0] Pts
Twin Linked Pulse Carbines
1 Shas'ui @ [20] Pts
Pulse Rifle (x1)

Fast Attack: Pathfinder (9#, 167 Pts)
6 Pathfinder @ 167 Pts
(C:TE, pg. 38); Scouts; Unit Type: Infantry; Markerlight (x6); Pulse Carbine (x6)
1 Devilfish @ [95] Pts
(C:TE, pg. 36); Unit Type: Vehicle (Tank, Skimmer); Burst Cannon; Gun Drones; Transport Capacity: 12 models; Transport; Marker Beacon; Disruption Pod; Landing Gear; Multi-Tracker
2 Gun Drones @ [0] Pts
Twin Linked Pulse Carbines

HQ: Commander Shas'o (3#, 172 Pts)
1 Commander Shas'o @ 172 Pts
(C:TE, pg. 32); Acute Senses; Deep Strike; Independent Character; Unit Type: Jump Infantry (Jet Packs); Bonding Knife; Hard-wired Drone Controller; Hard-wired Multi-tracker; Hard-wired Target Lock; Shield Drone; Shield Drone; Missile Pod; Plasma Rifle; Shield Generator
1 Shield Drone @ [15] Pts
Shield Generator
1 Shield Drone @ [15] Pts
Shield Generator

Elite: Crisis Battlesuit (5#, 226 Pts)
1 Crisis Battlesuit @ 226 Pts
(C:TE, pg. 34); Acute Senses; Deep Strike; Unit Type: Jump Infantry (Jet Packs); Team Leader; Crisis Battlesuit; Crisis Battlesuit; Bonding Knife; Hard-wired Drone Controller; Shield Drone; Shield Drone; Missile Pod; Plasma Rifle; Multi-Tracker
1 Crisis Battlesuit @ [62] Pts
Missile Pod; Plasma Rifle; Multi-Tracker
1 Crisis Battlesuit @ [62] Pts
Missile Pod; Plasma Rifle; Multi-Tracker
1 Shield Drone @ [15] Pts
Shield Generator
1 Shield Drone @ [15] Pts
Shield Generator

Elite: Crisis Battlesuit (3#, 186 Pts)
1 Crisis Battlesuit @ 186 Pts
(C:TE, pg. 34); Acute Senses; Deep Strike; Unit Type: Jump Infantry (Jet Packs); Crisis Battlesuit; Crisis Battlesuit; Missile Pod; Plasma Rifle; Multi-Tracker
1 Crisis Battlesuit @ [62] Pts
Missile Pod; Plasma Rifle; Multi-Tracker
1 Crisis Battlesuit @ [62] Pts
Missile Pod; Plasma Rifle; Multi-Tracker

Total Roster Cost: 1849

Tim "

Here's the army summary in easy to read format (assuming you understand Tau shorthand):

2x Broadside x3 w/TA, TL w/TL, 2x drones (1 w/bonding)
10xKroot
2x 10x Kroot w/Shaper +3 Hounds
FW x6 w/shas’ui + Devilfish w/Dpods, MT
FW x6 w/shas’ui
6x PF w/Devilfish w/Dpods, MT
Shas’O w/BK, MT, TL, MP, PR, shield, 2x drones
3x Crisis w/MP/PR/MT + TL w/BK, 2x drones
3x Crisis w/MP/PR/MT

= 1849.

It's an alright list overall but your anti-infantry is lacking a little bit and there are a bunch of upgrades you don't need like bonding knives (BK), Shas'uis, Shas'O and Shapers. With a bit of tweaking this list would become a lot more optimised whilst still using the different look of Tau which I'll offer up below. With the advent of no Piranhas let's see if we can't make this a more solid and balanced list and shore up the anti-infantry side. We want to try and get as many Crisis as possible as these are our best source of anti-infantry, especially since we're not using Hammerheads and we'll try and fit in double PF squads to maximise this since we're not worried about Piranhas. We should also try and split our Broadsides into 3 squads. Whilst a bit more expensive that's 6 targets rather than 4.

3x2 Broadsides w/advanced stabilsation system, team leader w/hard-wired target lock, drone controller & 2 shield drones sets us back 200 points each, so only 15 more expensive than what was had before. We'll also try and fit in 3x3 PR/MP/MT Crisis at 186 each. This means we've only got 692 points left to spend on the Commander, PF, Kroot, FW & Devilfish. 2x10 Kroot + 7 Hounds clocks in at 224 and a cheap TL-MP w/TL commander loses us 73 pts and we've got 395 points left. Unlikely to be enough seeing as Warfish are 120 each but I'm going to assume your Devilfish are outfitted with drones here (correct me if I'm wrong as the list would be better with upgraded Fish) so a couple of cheap as chips Fish w/Drones, DPods & multi-trackers for 2x PF squads (size 6 for the moment). This sets us back 334 points and leaves us only 61 points, just enough to get one FW squad when we want 2. So we need to shave some points. Our anti-tank is pretty solid with 10 suits + 6 broadsides so we'll change up one of the Broadside teams to a single member w/Drone Controller & 2 shield drones (shaving 100 pts) and we've got 41 points left. I'm going to put in the Warfish upgrades and if you don't have the models for this Tim, we can add those points elsewhere. So this is what we end up with:

HQ -
Shas'el w/TL-MP, target-lock

Elites -
3x3 Crisis Suits w/PR, MP, multi-tracker

Troops -
10x Kroot + 7x Hounds
10x Kroot + 5x Hounds
6x FW
6x FW

Fast Attack -
6x PF w/Devilfish w/multi-tracker, SMS, DPods, targetting array
6x PF w/Devilfish w/multi-tracker, SMS, DPods, targetting array


Heavy Support -
2x2 Broadsides w/ASS, team leader w/hard-wired target lock, drone controller w/2 shield drones
Broadside w/drone controller w/2 shield drones
 
Totals: 1847
 
This keeps the concept of multiple FW squads, Broadsides and no Hammerheads but has most of the needless upgrades striped and much improved anti-infantry firepower. Again, if you don't have the models (or means to get the models, specifically the Warfish) let me know what you have and I can tweak again.

13 pinkments:

Chumbalaya said...

In the absence of Piranhas, Devilfish are passable blockers and annoyances, particularly if they sport flechettes.

VT2 said...

I find that 3x2 elite suits, plus twin commanders, with bodyguards, do a much better job than solo commander and 3x3 elite suits.

It's so much easier to hide smaller units behind vehicles, and they can't be reduced below the magical 50% limit.

Marshal Wilhelm said...

Having a 2 man squad is sneaky VT2. May always attempt to regroup :)
*strokes chin*

I think Fish are too expensive and important to use as blockers, but without Piranhas, whaddaya do?

I think 'cram n jam' will be my new catch cry for Kroot and Piranhas.
The Kroot and crammed around your zone
The Piranhas jam baddies movement.
Catchy and descriptive :D

Kirby said...

That's an extra 70 points you're paying for the same amount of firepower VT2. Sure it can be easier to hide them and you can always regroup but Crisis suits which flee generally flee off the table.

Chumb nailed it with the Fish, they are fine blockers. THey work as blockers normally but here they take a more important blocking roll as there are no Piranhas (though you have to time/place them right for FWs to be on objectives, etc.).

Brother Loring said...

Sorry, should have posted this yesterday. I think Kirby tried to keep things as close to the original list as possible, but if there is a bit of room for change I'd opt for a few things.

Switching one unit of Broads for a Railhead will provide you with a bit more anti-infantry fire. Stelek even goes for 2 HH below 2k...

http://www.yesthetruthhurts.com/2010/07/tau-advice.html

... I agree with Chumby and Kirby on the need for 2 devilfish for blocking until you get the Piranhas. Not quite as good as you'll be blocking closer to your lines, but it is an essential role that needs to be filled for Tau.

With regards to the suits, I like VT2's idea on taking 2 commanders, for the added BS4 shots, more wounds and more target possibilities. I think an alternative can be done with upgrades within the squad with a team leader, TL, TA and MT (20 points over basic set-up), but reduces wound allocation shenanigans (2 of the guys in the squad will be identical) and doesn't get the added wound of the Shas'o. One Shas'o and 3x3 suits with the above load out would enable 4 targets at BS4, and 3 at BS3. Not shabby at all.

You'd get the points from XV-88 --> HH and reducing the Kroot squads to 10 + 3 (x2)

VT2 said...

The biggest problem with my tau is that I'm always out of slots.

There's always the 3x2 crisis armor, a solo commander, the mandatory unit of junky firewarriors, two squads of kroot, one unit of pathfinders, and two hammerheads.

For smaller games, there's not much else to take, but in larger ones, you can splash on a second commander, some bodyguards for both, broadsides, piranha, more pathfinders, more kroot, and that's about it, since everything else is so bad.

Sure, bodyguards and commanders aren't as points-efficient as crisis armor, but when you've taken all the basics, you'll have points left, but no useful slots.

Brother Loring said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Brother Loring said...

The thing is, you haven't filled your slots as you've only put 2 suits in each of the squads. 2 BS3 suits are unlikely to wreck a rhino per turn at range. 3 on the other hand - happy days!

If you want to shoot at more stuff, throw a target lock in there and think a little more about shooting. It works for long fangs!

VT2 said...

Three suits cannot be hidden hehind vehicles - 2 suits can.

Kirby said...

I can fit 3 suits behind my tanks. There's less arc for blocking LoS unless you pack all the tanks in a line but they do fit.

Katie Drake said...

Hey Kirbs, this is a little off-topic, but I've been trying to help someone at my shop with their Tau. This guy owns basically every model in the range (and usually has multiples of each, even XV9's). The point level is the same (1,850). What does your ideal 1,850 point Tau list look like?

Kirby said...

@Katie; sorry delayed reply, tourney! Take the 2000 pt list of 10x Suits, 2x17 Kroot squads, 6x FW, Devilfish, 8x PF, 2x2 Piranhas, 2x Railheads & 2x Broadsides and I'd generally drop a Piranha squadron as Double Raider lists are a lot less scary at that points level. You then split the 2 remaining piranhas into two squads of 1.

Katie Drake said...

Awesome. Thanks.

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