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"Pink isn't a color. It's a lifestyle." - Chumbalaya
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"I buy models with my excess money" - Valkyrie whilst a waitress leans over him

Saturday, August 21, 2010

Ogre Kingdoms in 8th - Part 1

Hey all, Vince here.

So I did promise to look into 8th once our tourney was over and the 40K things calmed down although uni will only get busier for me from here on in ;) Now we have the full rules available to see how armies will be different in 8th as opposed to 7th, even though its still early days so we can only do a general analysis and some lists and combos imo since 8th is still being adjusted to.

So I guess we can start from the bottom of the shit pile in 7th (aka the Ogre Kingdoms). They did improve in 8th definately but they aren't top tier by any means unfortunately. They are fairly big winners from changes in 8th... However there are some downsides too and these will be fairly evident from the core rules, namely steadfast if more ranks than the ogres (almost guaranteed) and always striking in 2 ranks against them means not much breaking on the charge like before and lots of attacks at the ogres with their paper armour... Similarly, the strike by initiative is a problem for the OK, especially Bulls with their shit armour and often what may look like a certain win in a combat will result in a loss just because you lost a few bulls before they could strike and thus had less attacks back at the enemy to attempt to even the CR.

But I digress. The positives:

#1 - Second Rank attacks and 3 monsters for a rank - So this one is fairly obvious. More ogres getting their 3 attacks from the second rank and thus more casualties are generated. Its really what the ogres attempted to do in 7th, however they couldn't attack from the second rank and thus had to rank up 4+ wide and make the unit unwieldly. The ability to rank up 3x2 means the frontage is much manouverable than the line of ogres in 7th. A 3x2 Bull unit generates 18 STR 4 armour piercing attacks, although at their shitty initiative... However its a fair bit of punch for a compact unit. Guts dish out the pain a bit better with 18 STR 6 but ASL meaning you may lose a Gut or two before they strike which means they will lose their attacks. But still, lots of STR 6 is quite nasty and will put the hurt on most things...

#2 - Stomp - really this just adds to their damage output and is quite a nice boost, although it happens usually after all attacks so if the Ogres get butchered a bit, they won't get too many Stomps back. The stomp is nice with the Characters too since its usually at a higher STR, much like their Bull Charge. Overall, a nice little extra for Monsterous Inf.

#3 - BSB Rerolls - Now Ogres will panic much less with a BSB and a Tyrant nearby, meaning this item is almost a must have on one of your Bruisers. Back in 7th, MSU of Ogres would either die to ranged attacks/magic and units nearby would fail their panic and flee too. Similarly, with the MSU build, an Ogre unit would bait and flee, and would fail the rally and nearby units would fail their panic and flee also. The BSB really just helps with all of these LD issues and hence, helps the line keep in tact and also means you could possibly take Mawseeker for the +1 Toughness on Characters and have a fairly safe chance to pass the stupidity should you want a tougher character.

#4 - sCRAPlauncher :D - Is no longer as crap as it used to be. In fact, its pretty awesome now. Accurate as a stone thrower and still keeps its own cool template rules which is better than the 8th ed stone thrower. Not bad in combat either and the BSB helps it pass its test and it doesn't get killed outright by STR 7 anymore. Not too bad at all :D

#5 - Protective items and armour - Now the BRB has much better armours and ward saves and hence, these become better with the Luck Gnoblar. Often a good choice for your Tyrant/BSB for added protection. The Slaughtermaster can also take a Healing Potion for the wounds he is bound to take from attacks and from self inflicted magic damage, a pretty nice combo :D

#6 - The changes to RiP spells and Ogre Magic - much better than in 7th. Now you can have multiple RiP spells which helps the Butchers and Slaughtermasters a lot. Similarly, the +4 to cast and dispel is very useful from the Slaughtermaster, who has just become another auto include imo, where as we didn't see one ever in 7th due to restrictions and points... Much easier to cast Gut magic now with +2 or +4 (Butch or SM respectively) and its possible to do one dice spells but a bit risky. Perhaps with a Butcher at the beginning of Magic phase to draw out some Dispel dice and then the SM kicks his magic in :D

#7 - Gnoblars - Steadfast Gnoblars on LD 9 with a BSB nearby are hard as tits to shift :D These bastards could potentially hold up anything for ages at minimal cost and could hurt it back a little bit. A unit of 50 costs 100 points! Possible to go Horde for shooting sharp stuff unit but I think its better to go 5 wide with a million ranks for a tarpit unit. Definately a key unit for Ogres in 8th.

Now a bit of the negatives:

#1 - Step up and supporting attacks at the Ogres - A bit one. Ogres can no longer wipe out the front ranks and take little to no damage back. Now they will charge in and do some Bull Charge action but will then likely get wounded a fair few times and then get to attack after this... A bit of a problem when you have little to no armour and majority of Toughness 4 guys. Gut magic will definately be a must to help these boys out with Regen and MR 2, and also Stubborn and +1 toughness spells.

#2 - Steadfast and Nerf of Fear - Ogres used to rely on usually breaking things on the charge and usually are at a fairly big disadvantage in a prolonged fight which steadfast are bound to cause. This sucks because you cannot deny the steadfast by a flank or anything, but you can get a huge Gnoblar unit in there too to then you will deny them steadfast and you will likely chase down those bastards... Another reason why those Gnoblars are key units for Ogres. Next, Fear got nerfed a bit and enemies no longer auto break from fear causers and so Ogres will have to d othis the hard way. But it now means every turn your Ogres have a chance to be hit only on 6s meaning they could survive a bit longer of the enemy fails its fear a few times.

#3 - Low Initiate - A bit part of 8th is Initiative and Ogres don't have high ones. It will cause problems when you get in the combat since you will likely strike after your opponent and if he can do significant damage to you, you will lose attacks back and likely lose the combat...

In summary, Ogres will always be a bit of a hit or miss army, it really depends on MUs. I think they will struggle against High Initiave armies and high AS armies and troops who can fight well. Namely most Elves, WoC, Lizzies and probably Empire too due to their shooting and steadfast and stepping up. The Ogres were quite good against Undead and Tomb Kings in 7th and this is likely to comtinue into 8th. I think that the OK were essentially a MSU type army and while this is certainly viable still, its probably better to take larger units and this gives them another style of play from the bait and flee type MSU that was used in 7th with some success. Now the Bulls and Guts can hit harder and take more of a beating without losing manuevarability, although they will indeed cost more than the 3 Bulls and a muso that were often seen in 7th. Next time I will try to look at the different units in the Book and see how they will go in 8th and also come up with a few builds for Characters. Discuss away pink army!

3 pinkments:

Chumbalaya said...


Stelek said...

Sorry, did this article say Ogres are still the suck, or not?

Vinsanity said...

Yeah definitely still the suck in competitive play but got a bit of a boost otherwise. However, imo, the disadvantages are big ones and Ogres will have a hard time not getting shot and magicked to death usually, and now in combat can even be ground out too :(

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