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Friday, September 17, 2010

Email in: Opinion on Space Wolf list 1700pts


"Hi Kirby,

I have a tournament on oct 2 and I want to try a new space wolf army. I've been playing CSM for years but they really suck so I want to try the new space wolfs.

The missions are the NOVA ones with the change of VP for KP with 5 chosen in the army before the start of the game, 3 by yourself 2 by your opponent. I pushed really hard to get them to remove the comp system but they wanted to keep it so I got to live with it. The comp system is pretty basic, no identical HQ, at least a unit in 2 of the 3 optional slots (elite, fast, heavy), no more than 2 of each unit per force org (no more than 2 longs fangs, 2 wolf scouts, etc) at least 40% troops, no more points in one optional force org than in troops, have a story to go with your army. With the list as is I have all my points in composition. For every rule you do not follow you lose 2 points out of 12.

Here is the list so far, any advice or critics are welcome.

Rune Priest, Chooser of the slain, Jaws of the World Wolf, Living Lightning

5 Wolf Scouts, 1 meltagun, wolfguard with combi-melta and powerfist
5 Wolf Scouts, 1 meltagun, wolfguard with combi-melta and powerfist
5 Wolfguards listed with each entry they join

7 Grey Hunters, 1 meltagun, wolfguard with combi-melta and powerfist
Rhino
7 Grey Hunters, 1 meltagun, wolfguard with combi-melta and powerfist
Rhino
5 Grey Hunters, 1 flamer, wolfguard with powerweapon (rune priest tags along)
Rhino
5 Grey Hunters, 1 flamer
Razorback, Lascannon, twin-linked plasmagun
5 Grey Hunters, 1 flamer
Razorback, Lascannon, twin-linked plasmagun

Land Speeder, multi-melta, heavy flamer
Land Speeder, multi-melta, heavy flamer

5 Long Fangs 1 Sergent, 4 Missile Launchers
Razorback, Lascannon, twin-linked plasmagun
5 Long Fangs 1 Sergent, 4 Missile Launchers
Razorback, Lascannon, twin-linked plasmagun

Exactly 1700 points
40 Marines + 10 Scouts
9 Tanks

I also read YTTH and saw Steleks build and how to play the army, it's pretty good and inspired my army but I had to cut to 1700 points so the army doesn't work and feel the same as in 2000 points.

You can change about anything in the army, nothing is fixed, it's still a draft for now and I own pretty much every model I could need to change the list around except thunderwolfs. I plan on buying some in the following weeks but if I need them before the tournament so be it. I finished the conversions for the turrets for the razorbacks yesterday and the combi-meltas also.

If you think of a better army that uses the blood angel or space marine codex let me know. I also have an all bike army that is not painted yet and I don't want to rush them out before the tournament. I just don't want to play chaos anymore until the codex is redone.

Thanks for any help you can give me.

Have a nice day

Black_rose"

Sorry about delay Black_rose, been a busy bee lately. The list overall is good and I'll offer up some tweaks in a second. The comp rules look...well very odd so if any of my tweaks lose you comp points, sorry I'm sure the tweaks can be had whilst staying within those restrictions (what country btw?). First things first though, the Rune Priest doesn't need Jaws. Tempest or Hurricane are much better utility spells in terms of helping the Space Wolf army and damaging your opponent. Whilst Jaws is nice to snipe crap, you generally won't take off an important model unless it's a Tyranid MC like a Tervigon or T-Fex.

Other than that the only real change I would want to see is the PFists on the Wolf Guard becoming power weapons which should free up points for power weapons on the GH squads as well. This gives you 7 PW attacks from each GH squad w/a wolf guard in them so can make them decent cc MSU. I'd try and do this for the Scouts too but PFist works better there to hit stationary vehicles. Whilst this makes the GH squads less likely to tackle MC/Dreads in combat, you should be shooting these guys dead with your ranged firepower. The increased combat prowess can shore up your lack of real counter assault units as well.

Goodluck in tournament and let us know how you go! (bat-reps with pics for review or just viewing pleasure would be great too).

9 pinkments:

Big Jim said...

Very sound advice my Pink friend!

That's a really nice looking Wolf Scout, if I do say so myself!

See more pics here: http://space-wolves-grey.blogspot.com/2010/08/big-jims-space-wolves-kill-team.html

Further updates have been moved to my personal blog Galaxy in Flames.

Black_Rose said...

Hi Kirby,

Black_rose here, thanks for the input. I'm from the french part of Canada called Quebec. I tried real hard to get the store owner that runs the tournament to drop army comp but he said he would lose a few tournament attendees if he did. But he said he would do a poll at the end of the event to see if he was right or not for futur reference.

I finished assembling a Space Marine all Bike Army a few weeks ago and don't want to rush the painting , that's why I'm playing wanabee space wolfs with my iron warriors force because I'm tired of playing chaos (and I own all loyalist codices).

I'll have a look at the rune priest powers tonight. I always looked at Jaws as a really neet trick against tyranids MC and Orcs, and OK against marines.

For the wolfguards, if I change the powerfists to powerweapons, do I remove the combi-meltas? If I don't I lose an attack with each because à don't have a bolt pistol. The wolf guards runing with the scouts keep their powerfists, they are to handy.

I've played only one game with the army so far and I won, but it was a hard fought battle. Played against mech marines who had pretty much the same firepower I had and he was more lucky then me on destroying tanks.

I'll try to get a few good pics during the tourney and a quick battrep afterwards. Do I send them to you by e-mail for you to post?

Thanks

Black_rose

SneakyDan said...

Black_Rose- I don't personally see the advantage of a power fist on your scouts. I think a flat power weapon + melta bombs for the unit should be sufficient. You do have two melta shots, so 5 melta bombs on auto hit or four plus is sufficient, the power fist seems like a lot of overkill. Unless there is a lot of wraith lords and tervi's in the backfield where you play? Use the spare points to throw some hunter killers on your rhino's, and smash your opponent with a turn two krak barrage. Perfect for Nuking mc's, I would think.

Kirby said...

@Big Jim; the picture is linked =D, all pictures I find from other sites I link unless they are from GW, etc.

@Black_rose; PFists on the scouts are more understandable but as SneakyDan said, there are other ways to get around it ^^. You do lose an attack with the power weapon but I'd prefer the 6 PW attacks (including GH) over 3 PFist attacks. Keep the combis. E-mail bat-reps/pics in when you get them :).

Big Jim said...

I didn't have a problem with the use of the pic, I know that you linked it, but it does not show in the link where it came from.

So, I thought I'd give people a chance to see the non blurry photos too!

Again it's totally kool on my end!

-Jim

Kirby said...

*wipes forehad and calls off the hitman* :P

Who want's non-blurry pics! Blurry pics FTW!

Black_Rose said...

Hi All,

My rune priest now has Living Lightning and Murderous hurricane.

I looked into the option of changing the powerfists for power weapons and i'm not to trilled so far. A power weapon on a GH costs 15 points so I have to drop all powerfists to powerweapons on the wolfguards to add 2 powerweapons to the GH and 2 meltabombs to the scouts.

But if you do a little bit of mathammer, 2 powerweapons will ditch out the same amount of hurt then a powerfist and the normal attacks of a GH or scout for 5 points less (fist 20 points on WG, powerweapon for a WG and a GH is 25). The powerweapons will be less usefull against T5+ but better against T3-. The fist can do something against MC and dreads and can instakill nobz and most IC that the pweapons can't. All in all if 2 pweapons was the same price as the pfist I would of done it but since they cost more I'm keeping the pfists everywhere. Also by removing the fists on the wolf guards with the scouts, they become less of a treat to units sitting in the backfield since they do not get an additional powerweapon like the GH do.

I'm still open to comments and critics but to make me change my powerfist to powerweapons you will need a few good arguments.

The hunterkiller missiles are something I would of liked to try but I have to drop something for them and I do not know what, the list is already pretty tight on points.

Thanks for the input so far

Black_Rose

Killswitch said...

Drop the fists to wolf claws, you wont need that many fists with the amount of anti tank you have. Thats what ive leartn after recent games :)

Kirby said...

@Black_rose; I agree with you on the PFists in the Scout squads. M-bombs do the trick as well but PFists help against both infantry/MC/tanks. In regards to power weapons on the GH/WG that's 6 power weapon attacks from the squad @ I4 so you're stopping some incoming attacks and the unit is still effective against hordes (hordes generally being i4 or less). The Pfists help agaisnt MC/tanks but you should have the firepower to down them from range.

There's no black & white in this regard. If you prefer PFists on the WG in the GH squads that's fine, they're not tacticals so it's not throwing good points after bad. Remember though, mathammer isn't everything :P (calls for Sepharine).

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