GWvsJohn's mailbag: Biker Hyrbid

Monday, November 22, 2010

GWvsJohn's mailbag: Biker Hyrbid

Posted by Anonymous

Hi GWvsJohn,

Not sure you if take such requests but I have a list I have been playing successfully in my local scene but since kicking up the competition I am in need of some tweaking. I was hoping you would have a minute (and the desire to) give me some feedback. I mainly play vanilla marines (painted as crimson fists) The list I have been running is:

Captain on bike w/ Relic Blade, SS, digital weapons

10 man tac w/ MG, ML, in Rhino

4 Bikers w/ 2 MG + 1 MM attack Bike

Ironclad w/ MG/HF in Pod

2x MM/HF landspeeders

2x Autocannon/Lascannon Preds

Thunderfire cannon w/ Pod (pod drops empty)

I have gone through several incarnation of this list. Currently, I am thinking that if I make the Ironclads normal MM/HF dreads, drop the Digital weapons from the captain, and cut the speeders down to 2 solo units, I will have 215 points left, which would let me run maybe some assault termies or sternguard or some other goodies. The other way I was thinking was to make the 2 squads of 2 speeders into 3 solo squads for better MSU and blocking.

I seem to have the most trouble with MC's like the 3 trygons in the bug lists and also deamon princes and the like. The dreads usually blow up a tank or 2 then tie them up for a turn or 2 but I dont seem to have the volume of fire i need to take them down. In my old list I had a squad of sternguard in a rhino with a null zone librarian, and that usually did it, but it is soo many points.

I really like having the bikes for the mobility and their ability to score has helped me win several times. I would prefer not to go all biker just due to the costs.

Anyways, any advice is appreciated.

Thanks,

-Mike (Psybilliah)

http://psybilliah.blogspot.com/

GWvsJohn loves e-mails :) Let's take a look at this. Psybilliah's original list is decent, but is far from optimal. I think the key part of his question is this " I really like having the bikes for the mobility and their ability to score has helped me win several times. I would prefer not to go all biker just due to the costs." So the question boils down to, "Can we make a competitive hybrid mech/bike list?" And I don't mean fast & slow, which we all know works. I mean can we combine biker troops with mech troops? I think we can. Let's get started.

First off, let's scrap Mike's list (sorry). We'll keep the "theme" of it (biker/mech) but start from scratch. I didn't do the math, but that list looks like 2000 points. Let's start with Kirby's 1750 Centurion list which is about as mean a mech marine list as you can find. For those who don't know it by heart people don't know it by heart yet? Blasphemy!

Libby w/Null Zone, Avenger

Dreadnought w/2x TL-autocannons

10x Tacticals w/flamer, MM, Rhino

5x Tacticals, Razorback w/LasPlas

2x Land Speeders w/MM, HF

Predator w/HB sponsons

We want Biker troops, so let's add our standard Captain, Relic Blade Storm Shield, Bike. Our Libby wants to use Avenger, so let's give him a bike too. That eats up most of our new 250 points and we don't have any bikes. What do we really get with a troops Biker squad anyway?

185 - 4 Bikes - 2 Meltaguns, Attack Bike - Multimelta

That's actually decent. 3 melta shots, 2 "ablative" wounds, 4 tl bolters, t5, I like it. Adding 2 of them takes our total list to 2335. We need to cut a few squads. I think we can start with the Speeders. The Bikes give us the mobile melta that the original list lacks. Loss of templates and blocking hurts, but we need to make cuts. Dropping all 4 leaves us at 2055. Next casualty is the 3rd Pred. We still keep redundancy with 2 Preds and hope our extra scoring units will balance our the continued loss of anti-infantry. Leaves us 30 points to play with and the list is

Captain w/ Relic, SS, Bike

Libby w/Null Zone, Avenger, Bike

Dreadnought w/2x TL-autocannons

10x Tacticals w/flamer, MM, Rhino

5x Tacticals, Razorback w/LasPlas

4 Bikes w/ 2 Meltaguns, Attack Bike - Multimelta

Predator w/HB sponsons

I don't like it. Those 10 bikers are just hanging out there, lots of points, lots of threat and the only non-armor units on the board (a big problem with hybrid lists). Let's fill them out to 8+AB each so we can combat squad them. That's 200 points, 170 over. With 2 Rhino Tacs and 2 full Bike squads, we have a ton of scoring. This is also shaping up into a list that swarms into midfield with bodies, but still maintains mobility. I think we can drop the Razorback squads. We lose some AT, which is bad, but I think they're the least important part of the current list (also, since the Libby has a bike, we no longer need a RB for him to ride in. Now we're 160 under. 2 Typhoons would be really nice in this list, giving us back some blocking and suppression fire. The only way to fit them in would be to drop all of the Biker meltaguns (swapping one in each for a flamer would be fine) or lose equipment on the Captain. I don't think either is worth it, so a pair of MM/HF speeders will have to do. 20 points left, I'd put combi-flamers on the Biker Sgts. Final list:

1 Space Marine Captain @ 180 pts (Space Marine Bike; Relic Blade x1; Storm Shield x1)

1 Space Marine Librarian @ 135 pts Null Zone; The Avenger; Space Marine Bike)

1 Dreadnought @ 125 pts (Twin Linked Autocannon; Twin Linked Autocannon)

9 Tactical Squad @ 205 pts (Flamer; Multi-Melta; Rhino)

7 Space Marine Bike Squad @ 295 pts (Meltagun x2; Attack Bike; Multi-Melta; Combi-Flamer)

1 Land Speeder Squadron @ 70 pts (Multi-Melta x1; Heavy Flamer x1)

1 Predator @ 85 pts (Heavy Bolter (each side))

Tactics: Combat squad the Bikers mgx2 in one, MM in the other. One character with each mg squad. Bikes, Rhinos, Speeders zip into midfield turn 1 while Dreads and Preds lay down some suppression fire. MG bikers can suicide/tie up units, or the ICs can charge out on their own. MM bikers spend mid game in midfield, then zip back to cover home objectives. Rhinos park in the middle and menace.

I think it's a solid list. Probably not as good as pure bikers or pure mech, but it adds some flavor and variety. I think it can easily dominate most FLGS and Warseer lists and can hold its own against top end "net" lists.

Comparing it to Psybilliah's initial list, he has to drop the Thunderfire (but you knew that was coming), 3 Pods, one Pred and 2 Speeders. The Preds, Dreads and Tacs need some weapon swaps. You have to add a Libby (obviously), a 3rd Dread and 8 Bikers. Not too much work to turn a decent list into a good one. :)

Monday, November 22, 2010

GWvsJohn's mailbag: Biker Hyrbid

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