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Tuesday, November 23, 2010

Tau List Critique with wonky comp restrictions!



Hi Kirby

First of I would like to say that i really enjoy reading yours and the others writers posts on 3++, and some of the articles have really change my view on the game, and especially, on how to play Tau. That being said I have an upcoming  2000 points tournament  and was wondering if you would take a look on my list. Now when I said a "different" tournament, it is because in Denmark,
where I am from, we usually have some restrictions to how you can build you army, mainly to prevent spamming 3 of the same unit.

The restrictions are as follows.


- No double or triple choices outside of Troops.

- Max 3 identical Troops choices.
- Max 4 vehicles which have Transport capacity.
- You have the following Force Organisation Chart to make your army from:
1 HQ, 0-2 Elites, 2-6 Troops, 0-2 Fast Attack, 0-2 HeavySupport.



Now these restriction can be broken in the following ways, costing 1 point each, and Tau have a total of 4 points to use.


- 1 extra choice in HQ, 1 extra choice in Elites, 1 extra choice in Fast attack, 1 extra choice in Heavy support( 1 point for each extra choice)

- 1 double choice.
So here is my list, I've noticed that it is a bit like your hybrid tau list, with some more mobility and the cost of high strength firepower(S 10)

HQ
Shas'el w/Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Multi-tracker
Bodyguard x 2 w/Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Multi-tracker
Ethereal w/2 x shield drones
Crisis x 3 w/Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Multi-tracker
Crisis x 3 w/TW flamer, Missile Pod

Troop
FW x 6
Devilfish w/SMS, Multi-tracker, Disruption Pods, Targeting Array
Kroot x 12
Kroot x 10
hound x 6


Elite


Fast Attack
Pathfinders x8
Devilfish w/SMS, Multi-tracker, Disruption Pods, Targeting Array
Piranhas x3 w/Fusion Blasters, Targeting Array, 2 Disruption Pod


Heavy Support
Broadsides x3 w/Advanced Stablisation System, Team Leader w/hard-wired Drone controller, 2 shield drones & hard-wired TL
Hammerhead w/Ion cannon, Burst cannons, Multi-tracker, Disruption Pod, Flechette discharger
Hammerhead w/Ion cannon, Burst cannons, Multi-tracker, Disruption Pod, Flechette discharger


so the current list breaks the following:
2 crisis squads
2 hammerheads
3 Heavy choices


The main ideas with the list is, that the ethereal join to broadsides to give fearless and 2 extra shield drones, since I have one more time seen them lose 2 drones and break, and since the usualy stand close the table edge you do the math. The hammerheads are to save points and still have some heavy tanks, primeraly to block things without meltaguns. The flamer suits gives the oppertunity to DS on an objektive and fluse the enemy out. The 12 man kroot squad can if needed, take empty devilfish to stay alive to claim objectives late game.


2 HQ choices
 One final note the missions for the tournament is not the like the standard missions from the rulebook, meaning that in most cases 1 objective is not enough
to get full mission points. And that half of the tournament score comes from kill points.


Like I said earlier i really enjoy reading 3++ and hope you will give some comments on the list.


Thanks in advance
Morten


Hey Morten, thanks for the email. Sure looks like homebrew 40k you have there, and I'll do my best to work within the restrictions. I'm assuming no double/triple choices is anti spam, and thats okay, we can work with that, and hopefully get some nice pew pew going at the same time.

First thing is first, HQ choices. Ethereals are bad bad bad. No amount of cajoling or bribery will ever make me say they are good. Especially in a broadside unit. You know those shield drones have the same save and toughness as the ethereal right? that means any anti-infantry fire is probably wounding you on 2's, and most of your stuff has a 4+ save. Epic failure. You will lose your Ethereal eventually, and then not only will your broadsides run, but most of your army.

So to start with, HQ choices. Lets be a bit more aggressive, considering the comp you have to work within. If you don't want your army to run, lets take a Shas'o, with Stims, Iridium Armour, Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, and Multi Tracker. Stick this guy with the broadsides, and put light arms fire onto him, which he will eat up with FNP and 2+ save. Give him a target lock as well, so he can missile pod light armour while the broadsides do their stuff.

Onto the elites. First things first, -1 from HQ means +1 in points to elites, and since the XV8 personifies the Tau army, we want 3 of them. No spamming, right?



Unit 1: Team Leader, with Plasma, Missile Pod, Targeting Array, HW Multitracker.
           2 x XV8's, Plasma/Missile/Multitracker
Unit 2: Team Leader, Plasma/Missile Pod, Targeting Array, HW Multi Tracker
           1 x XV8 with TL Missile Pod, and Targetting Array
           1 x XV8 with Plasma/Missile/HW multitracker

Unit 3: Team Leader, Plasma/Missile Pod, Targeting Array, HW Multi Tracker

          1 x XV8, Missile Pod/Fusion Blaster/Multitracker
          1 x XV8, Plasma/Missile Pod/ Multi Tracker


3 Different units. All with wound allocation shennanigans, except the Fireknife squad (unit 1), all with at least 2 plasma rifles, all with missile pods. All different. According to your scoring system, perfectly legal, and far more effective than 2 lots of suits, one with flamers. People, TL flamers on XV8's are NOT a good idea. They are PASSABLE if all your suits are TL missile pod/flamer, only because they are the CHEAPEST weapon option possible. Flamers on XV8's are BAD. If you are close enough to flame, you are probably dead anyways. :)

To the Troops!
10 Firewarriors
10 Kroot, 3 Hounds
15 Kroot, 6 Hounds

All different, no fail. We might come back here, depending on points.


Fast Attack
8 Pathfinders, Warfish (SMS, Burst, TA, Multitracker, D/Pod)
2 x 2 Pirahnas with Fusion, TA's, Fletchette Dischargers
2 x 2 Pirahnas with Fusion, TA's, Target Locks

Again, different unit make ups. Different, legal, and effective.

Heavy Support
3 x XV88's, Targetting Arrays - Reasoning is simple. Set these guys up with a commanding field of fire, and smash the living hell out of 1 vehicle per turn. This is what broadsides do. Yes, BASS is handy, to move around, and dodge cover, etc etc etc. Good initial deployment ( Especially with 2 x Railheads) means you can snipe 2/3rds of the board, and kill something every turn. Also a good place to put extra plasma, so we might do that. 2 x Railheads rounds us out, 1 with Burst Cannons, 1 with SMS, both have D/Pods, Multi Trackers, and the SMS tank has a Target Lock, the Burst Cannon tank has a BSF. Ionheads have no place in 5th edition, you get PLENTIFUL mid Str anti tank from your XV8's.


Whole list looks like this. 

Shas'O, Stims, Iridium Armour, Plasma/Missile Pod, Multi Tracker, Hard Wired Target Lock

Fireknife Squad, Team leader with TA and HW Multi tracker
Diversified FK Squad, with Team leader with TA/HW Multitracker,  1 x Fireknife, 1 x TL MP/TA suit
Diversified FK Squad, with Team leader with TA/HW Multitracker, 1 x Fireknife, 1 x Fusion/Missilepod/Multitracker Suit

6 Fire Warriors.
10 Kroot, 3 Hounds
11 Kroot, 6 Hounds

8 Pathfinders, Warfish, 
2 x 2 Pirahnas, Fusion, TA (these could be run seperately, you have the spare comp points)

3 x Broadsides, TA, TL Plasma Rifles (so you can move and fire if neccassary, or to WASTE that squad of Deepstriking Blood Angels Assault marines on your doorstep)
Railhead, D/Pod, Multi Tracker, BSF, Smart Missile System
Railhead, D/Pod, Multi Tracker, Target Locks, Burst Cannons

20 Points left over. This list is a little far away from your original, but I really cant justify things like Ionheads in 5th edition, its railheads or no tanks as far as I am concerned. I've written this within your rules as specified, and imagine that it will thoroughly outshoot anything you can come up against. If you keep the Pirahnas as 1 unit, you have only spent 2 of your possible 4 comp point thingys, which I imagine would do well for your soft scores. 

Good list, or too nasty? You decide! Voting closes on our toll free number at 7 Rotaa Tau Standard Time!

Comments (16)

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The way I read his restrictions was that double/triple choices are indeed choices themselves, rather than identical units. ie 3 diversified crisis squads are still in fact a triple choice, even though each choice itself differs from another, and thus illegal under this comp system.

Could be solved by folding the 3rd crisis squad into a bodyguard for the HQ instead for minimum fuss. This does leave him over the 4 point cap though (double elite, double FA, extra FA, double HS, extra HS = 5) so I would think the extra piranha unit would need to go somewhere else.

That's just from my interpretation of those comp rules, since I can't imagine they'd let a tiny difference in each unit allow you to defeat the purpose of the comp system which is clearly to prevent spam.
2 replies · active less than 1 minute ago
neverXmoor's avatar

neverXmoor · 755 weeks ago

You're right. Morten clearly states that his list breaks the comp restrictions by taking two XV8 elite choices, despite the fact that they have different wargear.

It's also worth noting that you don't *have* to take different troops choices
You can shave some points off firewarriors, take off the extra kroot, and maybe get some additional bodyguards in there, or buy more bling.
Dan when you can can you fix the formating; remove double lines and move the page break up please? Cheers. Google hates it when I do it apparently.
Wow. That's one of the worst Homebrew40k variants I've seen.

Anyways, I don't see enough real benefit from Wound Allocation Shenanigans on Crisis Suits, especially given your inadequate fools who designed your Comp system will probably endeavour to illegalise it for the next event if you beat them/their friends/someone who whines sufficiently.
...Wow. That formatting is... terrible. I can't actually tell what is his email and what is your post, Dan.

That said, I agree with the idea that taking three squads of Crisis Suits is breaking a rule right there. I would say that you have precious few comp points to work with, and they must be used on very specific things. You have surprisingly little room to deviate, the more I look at it.

First, TWO points need to be used for Heavy Support. Broadside, Railhead, Railhead breaks two rules. That's fine, though, as we need them, and they pull their weight.

Another comp point needs to be used to buy the second Crisis squad. The third squad HAS to be a HQ bodyguard, which shouldn't count as the same as the elite choices. That said, since you are already using your comp points on getting the suits, you may as well run them full Fire Knife and don't try to wound allocate them to save points (which should be used to increase numbers on the Kroot, I guess? Everything else should be running pretty full spec already).

You only have one more comp point left, then. If the Crisis Suit Bodyguard counts as the same as the Fire Knives, you HAVE to spend your last point here. If it doesn't, you CANNOT buy another Fire Knife squad, because you need one point for 1 Elite Slot, and another for the 1 Spam thing.

You also CANNOT get two squads of Piranha, here. You have one point left, and it's the same issue with Fire Knives (+1FA, +1 Spam). So, either drop the other squad, or go with a group of four.

And... that leaves you with one point, but I'm not sure what else to spend it on. Possibly a Fusion Blaster Stealth Team? You can't get more Fire Knives, Commanders, Pathfinders, Broadsides, or Hammerheads (though, the system curiously does appear to allow you to take 4 Heavy Support choices, if you wanted. This list has too much going on to take advantage of that, though.). Each one of those choices needs at least two comp points to pick up.
1 reply · active 755 weeks ago
I tried to format it for him but blogger is evil at times. Italics = emailer; normal = reply.
Those are some stupid restrictions, and render tau unplayable.
Tell the organizers to stop being idiots, and then promptly sit it out if they don't change things.

Artificially restricting tau from taking elites and heavy support means they can't win.
3 replies · active 755 weeks ago
That's a good idea, too. If you have the money/models, bring a full on second list with you and offer to play people 'unregulated' style. I would imagine every store has at least a few people who chafe under the draconian rules who would be up for a game. Make sure people know what they are getting into if you bring your other list, and who knows? Doing that might be enough to slowly force change.
When comp makes certain armies unplayable, I question why people let it go on.
Under this system, necrons, orks, tau, demonhunters, and space marines are severely punished, while imperial guard, blood angels, space wolves, and tyranids have field days.
You forgot Eldar. Only 2 HS means no Falcon. Only 2 Elite means few Dragons.
I read it as no duplicate units, not duplicate codex entries. My bad, if thats not what was intended. And, Artemi7, its 2 choices on FOC for each extra area that isnt troops, not one, so 1 x point per section required.

If Morten is reading these, I assumed that you meant no duplicate army list entries, not codex entries. If that is the case, let Kirby know through another email, and ill post up something to that variety.

Kirby- I had that fully formatted, single line spacing, Italics, and Bold headings per FOC area that I gave explanations for. No freakin idea why it didnt work.
1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago
Heh. You should see the mess when I email in one of my articles. Ugh. I spent so long unsuccessfully trying to fix one that I just retyped it, and deleted the original. :(
Kirby I don't understand why you suggest TA sometimes and ASS others. WHich is really better?
2 replies · active 754 weeks ago
It depends on what else is in your army, and what you plan on doing with the broadsides.
Plus, this isn't Kirby's article, but another author.
What VT2 said re author ^^; I always advocate ASS as it just gives you more mobility. However, if you're running 3 broadside squads, TA can be better as you've got mobility through squadrons but I'd still prefer ASS. Even being able to wiggle sideways just a little bit can clear LoS lanes, get into side armor, etc.

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