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"Pink isn't a color. It's a lifestyle." - Chumbalaya
"...generalship should be informing list building." - Sir Biscuit
"I buy models with my excess money" - Valkyrie whilst a waitress leans over him

Saturday, December 11, 2010

Email in: CSM advice

"Hi Kirby,

Nice blog, I like its emphasis on competitive play so it’s been really useful to get a picture of what it takes to up my game.

I’ve read through a fair number of your articles over the last couple of months and I’ve got to agree with you on your points about suppression fire, duality and MSU. Also I agree with the points made about CSM and their general lacklustre performance against more modern codexes.

With that in mind I want to present to you my old list (which I have models for) and a new list which I intend to go with. I’d like some C&C on it if you would.

A quick word about my local meta game, basically I play in my garage with a few friends who play SM, Sisters and rarely Eldar, the board is lacking in truly LOS blocking terrain, plenty of cover though. The SM is trouble enough with lots of ACLC predators and land speeders, it’s the Sisters I’m having real difficulty with, and my opponent tends to run 3 exorcists and multiple Seraphim squads with fusion pistols. As you’ll see below this tends to wreak havoc onvehicles.

My usual list is at 1750 (it’s just shy by about 25 points or so):

Prince w/wings, Nurgle, warptime
Greater Daemon
Zerkers x 8 w/Champ, Fist, Land Raider
PM x 7 w/Champ, PW, PP, Melta Bombs, 2 Plasma Guns, Rhino
PM x 7 w/Champ, PF, Combi-Melta, 2 Melta Guns, Rhino
CSM x 10, w/Champion, 2 Melta Guns, Rhino
3 x Obliterator (either grouped, 2/1 or singles)

Here is the list I’m thinking of (I did test something similar with dakka preds
instead of ACLC).

2 x Prince w/wings
Greater Daemon
2 x Chaos Dreadnought w/MM & HF
Chosen x 5 w/ 2 Melta Guns & 2 Flamers, Rhino
3 x CSM x 10, w/Champion, 2 Melta Guns, Rhino
2 x Predator w/AC and LC Sponsoons
1 x Predator w/AC and HB Sponsoons

Now I’ve gone from 4 hulls in the first list to 9 hulls in the second as well as 3 monstrous creatures. I’ve also tried to get duality in where I can. I’m running everything bare bones including the princes as I want quantity over quality, even naked princes scare people and if they’re targeting them with their heavy weapons in the first or second turn then they’re not targeting my vehicles. Couple of questions; what is better ACLC or dakka preds? I’m looking at the ACLC preds to reliably suppress/bust transports then move on to heavier targets once they’re all busted. The Greater Daemon is there to bust out of a transport where he’s most needed and to attract fire away from vehicles. Any thoughts? How will this fare against my main foes. I tried a similar list with dakka preds but I drove those forwards instead of sitting back and firing so what tactics should I use with the preds?

Also I’d be interested in finding out how you’d put a competitive CSM list together?

Cheers, Doug"

The 2nd list is a huge improvement there Doug. With regards to putting together a competitive list I'd be looking at the key concepts outlined in the Armies in 5th articles for both them and the general ones. It's difficult for them because they rely so much on their heavy support for actual anti-tank and their Troops are essentially throw-away melta because of the lack going around.

Anyway, with your 2nd list, I'd drop the Champions and GD. The GD is nice but Nurgle DPs are so much better. That T6 over T5 is massive and adding Warptime gives them a lot more reliability. Since you've also got Oblit models (assuming so from your first army) I'd replace the Dakka Pred with a pair of Oblits. You lose a chassis but gain some very flexible and durable firepower which can move and shoot. The biggest issue with the ACLC Preds is they are pretty static and moving them loses a lot of firepower. Otherwise that's a solid core. Havoc Launchers or combis on the Rhinos are always options and replacing one of the CSM squads with a Plague Marine squad for improved survivability is an option too if you  have the points but I'd be looking at Havoc Launchers or combi-flamers first.

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