"Hey Kirby,
A while back I was discussing Reecius' Bjorn List with someone on DakkaDakka. He wanted to fit in Thunderwolves. Working on the list I found some things I personally didn't like in Reecius' original list, so for myself I tweaked it further.
I've been playing it in games lately as one of my regular opponents wanted to play a more 'hard' list than what I normally bring. The battles we had previously were very closely fought, but I don't normally bring mech so he wasn't getting the practice he wanted for tournament play. At any rate, its been a lot of fun to play! Its entirely different than what I normally bring so the freshness is nice.
Here is the list:
HQ - Bjorn - Plasma Cannon - HF on DCCW. 270
EL - Dreadnought - TL Lascannon. 135
EL - Dreadnought - TL Lascannon. 135
TR - 5x Grey Hunters - Flamer - Heavy Bolter Razorback. 115
TR - 5x Grey Hunters - Flamer - Heavy Bolter Razorback. 115
TR - 5x Grey Hunters - Flamer - Heavy Bolter Razorback. 115
TR - 5x Grey Hunters - Flamer - Heavy Bolter Razorback. 115
FA - Land Speeder - Multi-Melta. 60
FA - Land Speeder - Multi-Melta. 60
FA - 3x Thunderwolves - PF/SS - SS - naked. 235
HV - 6x Long Fangs - 5x Missile Launchers - TL Lascannon Razorback. 215
HV - 6x Long Fangs - 5x Missile Launchers - TL Lascannon Razorback. 215
HV - 6x Long Fangs - 5x Missile Launchers - TL Lascannon Razorback. 215
Tot. 2000 pts
Now for my problem. The Thunderwolves are nice. They provide a close combat punch I don't have really. The Dreadnoughts can hold their own, but that depends if any are alive by the time the enemy gets into assault range and really they are supposed to be tarpits. They don't really dislodge an enemy unit from an objective, as the Thunderwolves do.
So I'm hesitant to get rid of them. But as I said, this army is completely different from my normal Space Wolves army. In fact only three things are in common with my current collection: One unit of Long Fangs with Missile Launchers, Bjorn (I never had any intention of fielding Bjorn before but I have a Dreadnought that could count-as Bjorn very easily and most people assume that is he), and Space Marines with Bolters.
Even my Thunderwolves are equipped differently and I didn't magnetize anything.
On the plus side, I've always wanted to build my own custom Chapter. Even if I already play Space Wolves. Given how un-Space Wolfy the Bjorn list feels I don't think I'd mind starting a second Space Marine army using the same Codex. The building/converting/painting experience would be different, and as I've already mentioned, the game play is entirely different.
So (finally) my question(s):
A) What the hell to count-as Thunderwolves and
B) If no counts-as, what to replace them with and
C) Which would make a stronger list (as strong as this one already is; games have been very one sided so far)
For A, I'm thinking Penitent Engines. Perhaps my Chapter will be a spin-off of a Black Templar Crusade, and the Penitent Engines are piloted by failed aspirants who showed the most zeal, courage, and love for the Emperor but still failed to make the grade. The privilege of piloting an Engine a better fate than becoming a mindless servitor. Would have to work something out for the charge range but it could work I think. But I'd love other options if you or anyone has any ideas.
For B, I guess get some Typhoons? Not sure if more Troops would be all that helpful but I could grab 3 Typhoons and still have 85 points left over. Or maybe just take 2 and grab a Rune Priest for psychic defense (which has been entirely unnecessary with all the firepower, though I'm still waiting for a chance to face a GK at the FLGS. Just have to heavily proxy at the moment...).
Looking forward to hearing some feedback! Keep up the awesome blog. Its basically the only W40K one I find worth following as some of the old favorites have gone down hill lately..."
Pentient Engines? How are you getting these into the list? If you mean as counts-as for the Dreads that would work fine but in terms of rules, there's nothing that I know of which would allow them to be run with a Space Marines book (assuming I'm reading what you're saying correctly).
The list is solid overall but I'm not a fan of two things - Bjorn or lack of Wolf Guard. The lack of Wolf Guard is huge - it means each Grey Hunters unit only has one melta shot and is Ld8, much less reliable as a midfield scoring unit. Also, not a huge fan of Bolterbacks but they do provide ranged anti-infantry, something Space Wolves don't have a lot of, so their use isn't terrible and a lot of good players (like Reecius and Spag and Hulksmash) get good use out of them but the trade-off is not being able to stay in your Rhino and shoot out two melta shots each turn. Again, certainly usable but just something to note.
Other than that, Bjorn is expensive and doesn't add that much whilst still dying to meltaguns. He can help with the lack of Wolf Guard seen in the Grey Hunters but if he is dropped early? They are back to Ld8. Dropping him in favor of a Rune Priest gets you psychic defenses, more ranged pewpew/utility and the option to take extra Wolf Guard and Thunderwolves. You could upgrade the Speeders to Typhoons as you suggested but you already have pretty good ranged firepower, mobile melta is more important.
In terms of what you want the TWC counts as, there are a lot of options. Really big biker marines or bionic marines on bikes are quite popular. Marines on Juggernaughts or Marines on the old Jetbikes, etc. Basically anything mounted and on a larger base is going to suffice in terms of counts-as and I'd probably be running this as your basis for your chapter conversion. I know Vince was looking at doing Iron Hands at some point with Loganwing, I'm sure a bit of fluff bending could take this idea on board with some sort of mechanical marine being the TWC, etc.
Kirb your enthusiasm!
"...generalship should be informing list building." - Sir Biscuit
Saturday, April 21, 2012
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