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Friday, September 17, 2010

Email in: 1250 Tyranid Help

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"Im struggling a little bit with the new Codex so I thought I might throw you a list to see what you think. Now I have a Carnifex in there which isnt necessarily the best use of points but im a little limited in what I can bring and im already using an old carnifex as a proxy for the Tervigon as it is. So basically I guess Im asking for your opinion on this list, I dont think its ground breaking by any stretch but im after any criticism you feel you could throw at it, thanks for your time, oh and if ive sent this to the wrong spot apologies. Oh ill be fighting an Eldar force with this that helps.

Onto the list:

HQ: Tyranid Prime, DS, LW BS
Troops:
16 Hormaguants, Toxin
3 Warriors, 2 x DS, 1 x VC
Tervigon, Catalyst
14 x Termagants


ELITES:
Deathleaper
2xHive Guard
1x Hive Guard


HVY SUPPORT:
Tyrgon, Adrenal Glands
Carnifex.


Thoughts? Tips? Criticism? Im a bit worried I dont have enough AT, I certainly dont have much outside the Hive Guard"

Well, the list isn't terrible, but there are certainly some things we can improve. The first thing to look at is "What am I trying to do with this army?" Honestly, I think this is probably the list's greatest failing- it has plenty of good units in it (Carnifex aside), but it doesn't know whether it's a shooting army, a melee army, or something else. This is a very important step in creating a list- sit down, sit back, and think to yourself "How is my army supposed to work? What is my overall plan, and how will each of these units support it?" You should repeat this process several times during the course of writing and modifying the list- sometimes this results in scrapping a list altogether and starting from scratch; that's fine, and is just part of how things work.

This is going to look something like the common "Tyranid shooty list" that you've all probably seen many times in various forms, hybridized with a few other tricks.

Tyranid Prime (Whip/Sword, Toxin, Regen)
Hive Guard x2
Hive Guard x2
Deathleaper
Termagants x12
Tervigon (Catalyst, Toxin, Adrenal, Cluster Spines)
Tyranid Warrior x3 (Deathspitter x2, Venom Cannon)
Trygon (Adrenal)
Carnifex (2 TL Devourers, Regen)

What we've done here is push everything in the list towards shooting and assault roles, so nothing can easily be ignored. The Tyranid Prime is an excellent HQ, especially in smaller games, but adding Toxin and Regen lets him reroll wounds against almost everything and he can soak up more firepower. He can either hang out with the Warriors, eating S8/9 shots to keep them alive or he can be paired with the Carnifex for a "mini-Deathstar" that is incredibly difficult to kill, having T6 and getting 4+ cover easily, with both halves having regen. (Incidentally, the Deathspitter is a fine option for him if you already have the model build and don't want to change it; I just dropped it out of habit.)

Hive Guard are awesome, no need for explanation there. I added one more to the list because of the- quite rightful- concerns about AT and because single units irk me. Combined with the firepower from the 'Fex's S6 guns they should make short work of any transports you face.

Deathleaper is perhaps the odd man out in this list, but I assumed from his inclusion that the poster had his model and would likely want to use it. Normally he wouldn't make the cut, as the list is not desperate for psychic defense nor is it particularly reserves-heavy, but he still serves a useful purpose in sniping off annoying units out of reach of your normal forces. He can also pop in to contest an objective at the last moment, so don't be afraid to play it safe with him in order to pull last-turn shenanigans.

We can see the usual Tervigon build here, with Catalyst as our default power. If you have a lot of problems with Eldar mech lists or want to focus more heavily on the Fexstar aspect of the list, Onslaught is a very viable choice instead. Regen would be nice here, but it can't easily be squeezed in unless we drop Deathleaper or the guns on the Warriors, which I'm assuming he doesn't want to remodel.

Speaking of which, this is a nice "support" configuration for the Warriors. Provides some basic suppression fire to keep transports quiet and annoy infantry. The real key to making them work is to insure that they always have cover- you do NOT want to get caught by Autocannons or Missile Launchers in the open. Camping them on an objective within 36" of the enemy and going to ground whenever real firepower comes your way is a very viable option- they're actually quite resilient this way and your opponent has lots of other things to worry about in this list.

The Trygon stays as is, a big, fancy threat to deal with MEQ squads and battle tanks. Again, Regen would be nice if we could afford it, but that means dropping something significant.

The Carnifex is something that I wanted to make use of. While they may not be the powerhouses they were before, Carnifexes do have uses and the kit can easily be converted into a wide variety of other units, most notably the Tyrannofex, Tervigon, and Harpy, all excellent units in their own right. The quad Devourers setup is one of the more dangerous configs, yielding 7-8 wounds each turn against most kinds of targets and is capable of suppressing light armor as well.

The Hormagaunts are the main casualty in this version of the list, being cut to make way for other upgrades on units; frankly, they just didn't have a place in an army that wants to be shooting every turn, as they would end up running well ahead of the other units and diving into combat unsupported, which is basically suicide. With a bit of shopping around for bitz (specifically Fleshborer arms) they can be converted over to Termagants quite easily if you are lacking in those, which is always helpful for expanding to higher points values.

An alternate version of this list might focus much more heavily on melee, keep the Hormagaunts (and adding some more, since sixteen unfortunately is not enough to really do the kind of damage we want), upgrade the Warriors to Boneswords (creating a very dangerous MEQ-killing unit to work with the Trygon) and run the Carnifex as Tyrannofex, advancing steadily while shooting down major vehicle threats. This version could benefit significantly from another Prime, as they are excellent choices for packing a lot of killing power into a smaller list, being nearly as deadly as a Hive Tyrant but half the cost.

Hope this helps you out, Cam.

(As an aside, I- and Kirby and the others, I'm sure- are more than happy to work within the constraints of the models you already have; we realize that this hobby is incredibly expensive and not everyone is made of money. However, some kind of list spelling out what you have- and especially what units you really want to keep in the list if at all possible- is very helpful to us. As mentioned above, I left Deathleaper in this list because I was under the impression that the emailer would want to use his model, but if that wasn't the case, it would free up a lot of points to do other things.)

2 pinkments:

sics said...

That was indeed helpful! Thanks for looking at my list and trying to tweak it rather than telling me to throw my models out and start from scratch like you get on most forums.

Im cooling to the idea of using Death Leaper, I like the rules but im not sure it brings enough to the game at this points level. Im also tempted to put some Biovores in just for kicks

Mind you that melee list looks mighty tempting.....

Thanks for the tips. Cam

AbusePuppy said...

You are correct that, at that point level, Deathleaper isn't as impressive. However, if you see a lot of Eldar, SW, and BA, you may still want to keep him. Otherwise, I would say look to dropping him to add Regen to the Tervigon and Trygon and spend your remaining ~80pts (90 if you drop the extra 'Gants) on something lovable. I must admit, I have a soft spot for Biovores myself, and they are rather effective against any army that isn't sitting in transports- which, unfortunately, is most everyone these days.

Happy to see you like the list- it really wasn't all that bad. Feel free to send some more emails if you have questions or problems with it.

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