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Sunday, September 5, 2010

Email in: Review my list [2000 Space Wolves]


"Hi,



I've been reading you blog for a few weeks now and needed an impartial evaluation of a list I am putting the models together to test. It's a Space Wolf list at 2000 points for a get together I am planning with some friends in December over the holidays. So.... I've got some time to test and tweek.

Wolf Guard Pack Leader @ 130 pts
- Frost Weapon, Storm Shield, Melta-bombs
Wolf Guard Pack Leader @ 130 pts
- Frost Weapon, Storm Shield

Rune Priest @ 100 pts
- Jaws of the World Wolf
- Living Lightning

Wolf Guard Pack @ 474 pts
-x2 - Wolf Guard in Power Armour, Wolf Claw x2
-x3 - Wolf Guard in Power Armour, Storm Bolter, CC weapon
-x1 - Wolf Guard in Power Armour, Bolt Pistol, CC weapon
-x2 - Wolf Guard in Power Armour, Storm Shield, Thunder Hammer
-x2 - Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour, Storm bolter, Power Weapon, Cyclone Missle Launcher
-x1 - Rhino, Storm Bolter

Wolf Scouts @ 85 pts
-x1 - Wolf Scout, Meltagun
-x4 - Wolf Scout, bolter

Wolf Scouts @ 85 pts
-x1 - Wolf Scout, Meltagun
-x4 - Wolf Scout, bolter

Grey Hunters Pack @ 150 pts
-x4 - Marines, Bolter, Bolt Pistol, CC Weapon
-x1 - Marine, flamer
-x1 - Razorback, Twin Linked Lascannon

Grey Hunters Pack @ 130 pts
-x4 - Marines, Bolter, Bolt Pistol, CC Weapon
-x1 - Marine, Meltagun
-x1 - Rhino, Storm Bolter

Grey Hunters Pack @ 130 pts
-x4 - Marines, Bolter, Bolt Pistol, CC Weapon
-x1 - Marine, Meltagun
-x1 - Rhino, Storm Bolter

Land Speeder Squadron @ 70 pts
- Multi-Melta
- Heavy Flamer

Land Speeder Squadron @ 70 pts
- Multi-Melta
- Heavy Flamer

Land Speeder Squadron @ 70 pts
- Multi-Melta
- Heavy Flamer

Long Fangs Pack @ 190 pts
-x4 - Marines, Bolter, CC Weapon, x4 Missle Launchers
-x1 - Squad Leader, Bolt Pistol, CC Weapon, Fire Control
-x1 - Razorback, Twin Linked Lascannon

Long Fangs Pack @ 190 pts
-x4 - Marines, Bolter, CC Weapon, Missle Launcher
-x1 - Squad Leader, Bolt Pistol, CC Weapon, Fire Control
-x1 - Razorback, Twin Linked Lascannon

Total Roster Cost: 1999


The Wolf Guard is large. The terminator armoured cyclones go with the scouts, and the TH + SS each go with a grey hunter unit along with on of the pack leaders if needed. One of the storm bolter clad wolf guard goes with the grey hunters in the razorback. The lone wolf guard with a BP + CC weapon goes with one long fangs unit and the Rune Priest goes with the other long fangs unit. The remaining Wolf guard stay together, ride around shooting eight bolter shots, and are joined by the pack leaders if needed dependant on the enemy and mission.


I think I'll do ok if I try and keep most people at arms length. The speeders will deepstrike and are set up for armour/anti-infantry shots. The long fangs will sit on the back edge fo the table and shoot as much as possible while there razorbacks move, shoot, and block. The Wolf Guard not farmed out to the grey hunters will head at 'rock units' and be supported by a grey hunter unit if they need it. The scouts behind enemy lines ability and the cyclone are to get those juicy side and rear shots on vehicles when opponents are set up poorly in their deplyment zone and stall the enemy before they die in place.


Ahhh... I know I'm missing something.


Anyway, thanks for the look,


Tim"
 
The skeleton of the list is solid but a few inconsistencies. The Razorbacks should be LasPlas (if they are double lascannon a bit of conversion work can make them LasPlas easily enough) as they provide more firepower and some durability for those Razorbacks (two weapon systems). For the same price, LasPlas are so much better. Outside of that the Long Fangs and Speeders are all good choices and so is the Priest (though Tempest or Hurricane are better powers than Jaws).
 
The Hunters, Scouts, WGBL and Wolf Guard though could use a bit of a tweak. The scouts should really be running around with CCW + BP. They don't always need to be operating behind enemy lines but you want that option available to you and the best part of their ability is to assault when they come on. Bolters obviously remove this. Attaching Wolf Guard for added cc punch is also a good thought so when you do 'outflank', the CML WG shouldn't be in those squads for obvious reasons. However, the WG unit as a whole is very expensive, especially the TH/SS guys and whilst adding them + the WBGL to the 5 man GH squads in Rhinos makes them decent combat units, the Wolf Guard are draining your points and your Troops aren't too hot (15 SM at 2000 points?).
 
So keeping the scouts but dropping a WGBL and the WG let's see what we can come up with to make your scoring stronger. We've got a couple of options as usual with Space Wolves. You can buff up the Rhino squad sizes to near 10 men (leaving space for attached guys) or spread the love with MSU. I prefer MSU but it's expensive money wise. With the cuts we've made there's 604 points to play with, let's see what we can do then based around MSU.
 
Let's take 2 IST squads w/double Plasma to slot into those Rhinos from the GH squads or rove around as needed. 160 points. We'll also add another RBack GH squad for 150 points. We want all of our GH squads to walk around with meltaguns (+20pts), power weapons (+60 points) and Wolf Guard with power weapons & combi-meltas (+99pts) [the WGBL goes in one of the squads). This has chewed most of our 600 points but we'd like some Wolf Guard to go with the Scouts too so another 66 points is spent there which leaves us a handful of points to play with and not too happy with it honestly.
 
Let's drop the IST then. We lose some scoring power but we do have 23 scoring bodies in Transports atm so we can either add another Rhino GH squad, some Lone Wolves or flesh out the current Rhino GH. I'd personally add another Rhino GH squad and leave this for the Rune Priest to hide in which leaves us with about 100 points. Time, to bring back an IST squad :P. This may be a bit confusing but will make sense below whenI write the army list out. Add a Transport (LasPlas RBack) to the Wolf Guard squad and a Plasma IST squad which sends us over the point limit. The WG LasPlas RBack should be swapped with one of the Rhino GHs (so the Rhino GH now has a LasPlas) and the IST can easily hijack a Rhino at the beginning of the game. The Wolf Scouts need a bit more combat oomph so let's add in a power weapon each and then drop a Land Speeder to balance our points. Adding it all up...2005. We'll drop a combi-weapon off one of the WG then which leaves us with...
 
WBGL w/Frost Weapon, SS
Rune Priest w/LL, Tempest
5x Wolf Guard w/4x combi-melta, 5x power weapon, Rhino
2x5x Scouts w/meltagun, power weapon
4x5x GH w/meltagun, power weapon, LasPlas RBack
5x GH w/flamer, Rhino
5x IST w/2x plasma guns
2x MM/HF Speeder
2x5x LF w/4x missiles, LasPlas Rback
 
Totals: 2000 points
Infantry: 57
Tanks: 10
 
How's that Tim? You've improved your midfield and combat ability with more a more general application of the Wolf Guard whilst keeping most of your original list intact. You've got a lot more scoring potential and can happily sacrifice squads more readily to keep your opponent at arm's length and all of your GH squads bar the RP bunker are pretty solid in combat. 6 LasPlas + 2 LF squads also equals a lot of firepower coming downfield.

7 pinkments:

Chumbalaya said...

I like have a unit or 2 of 10 GH with 2 meltas in Rhinos. Not as punchy as a unit with WG, but melta bunkers and bodies are always handy.

Adding TWC, or even just a single TWC character can give you plenty of combat punch.

Captain Kellen said...

Thanks for the look,

At the moment I am converting a guy on a bike and putting him on an appropriate base as a TWC model. I don't care for the whole 'marine on beast thing' but that is just a personal preference.

I knew you were going to tell me to take las/plas instead of twin-las. I've seen conversions where someone just put two plasmaguns on the storm bolter stand for the rhino along with the turret. I may try this.

The scouts are all I have built at the moment but the parts are cut, separated, and ready to be put together as you commented. I knew the bolt pistol/cc weapon gave better options for tactics.

Funny, you posted this and this afternoon I am testing the list against 'orks'. Timing is everything.



Thanks again,

Tim

Kirby said...

Ah well if you're up for using a TWC mount..., drop the WGBL and 5 GH in Rhino for a Lord on TWC as a counter assault unit.

Once I get all my supplies in I'll do some posts on lasplas conversions around plasticard but since you already have TLLC RBacks (I'm assuming) can prob do something different.

Captain Kellen said...

I like the idea that with wolf guard I can change units based on who I am facing.

5 WG with combi-melta's. Economical? Without question. Effective? Yes.

With the teminator cyclones I get two shots at strength 8 if I send them with the scouts.

... I can get two quasi-anti-armour if I send them with the grey hunters.

... I can move and shoot four strength 8 if i keep them with the Wolf guard and havea single rock unit supported by a couple of quasi-CC units.

The TWC cavalry is interesting because if I can squeeze in two I can sacrifice them and coutner charge with the wolf guard.

I'm fiddling with the idea of Logan by dropping both WGBL's and a speeder. I think though this would make him, and any unit he joins, 'The Target' if you catch my meaning.

thanks,

Tim

Kirby said...

You lose a bit of flexibility without the bigger Wolf Guard squad but you gain more feasibility in general.

I'd steer away from Logan unless you go Loganwing. He's expensive and needs tobe taken advantage of there.

Captain Kellen said...

So...

Played this list against a 1000 points of orks and a 1000 points of Chaos Space Marines.

I think that the two glaring disadvantages my opponents had were the fact that I had one 'mind' when it came to tactics and my army wasn't pieced together. Going first is another good advantage.

The mission wasPitched Battle/Sieze Ground - 3 objectives.

I did try a refused flank and focused on the orks and held the chaos marines at bay. A greater demon on foot did little the whole game but I didn't throw much that direction.

It was a friendly game and I blundered quite a few things. One turn I forgot about the rune priest and did nothing with him and I felt I placed him wrong in the first place without good avenues of site. With all that said I did get 'jaws' off and killed an ork warboss outright. He needed a four or under on the initiative test and failed with a five.

The entire game I felt I was short of 'troop' slots. I'll have to work on that. Kirby is correct and I need more 'grey hunters'. I'm not sure what I am going to juggle. I know I'll drop one speeder to get an IST squad.

One grey hunters unit did manage to wipe out the remnants of the nob squad being ran.

The scouts with the cyclone missle luncher did well killing a deff dred and holding a nob squad at mid field for two turns. The nobs killed the scouts but the termie held his own to the bitter end.

The long fangs... wow! Being able to choose two targets with each squad is amazing. I killed three kans, six nobs, and thirty boyz in six turns.

The speeders were... speeders.

The large wolf guard is ok. I like the unit but dropping it down will mean I lose at least one of the cyclones.

I know there are going to be comments about palying noobs and friendly games. i understand this. However, this is the first time I have used this list and the codex so I needed to practice somewhere.

Thanks for the comments and I'll keep you posted if you like,

Tim

berzerker1307 said...

just chiming in, you can't attach TDA models to wolf scouts, so you might want to revise the scouts strategy.

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