Kirb your enthusiasm!


"Pink isn't a color. It's a lifestyle." - Chumbalaya
"...generalship should be informing list building." - Sir Biscuit
"I buy models with my excess money" - Valkyrie whilst a waitress leans over him

Sunday, September 5, 2010

Email in: Army list comments? [1750 Daemons]

"Hey Kirby,

great work, always interesting to read your comments on army lists. So here is mine, a fluffy Tzeentch Daemon list. I was told that this list is pretty hardcore... Is it? ;p

Fateweaver 333p
Lord of Change, Master of Sorcery, We are Legion 300p

2 x 3 Flamers 105p each

2 x 9 Horrors with Bolt 163p each
2 x 9 Horrors with icon 178p each

4 Screamer 64p

Soulgrinder, phlegm 160p

Total : 1749

Some people say it's not good to run a single Soulgrinder, should I change it and the screamer to a Daemon Prince with Mark of Tzeentch, daemonic flight, daemonic gaze and bolt of tzeentch (220 p)?

[With this change, the model count would go from 49 (uncool) to 45 (5x9 = cool) :D]


Falk (aka Desaster)"

To answer the question of is it hardcore? Not in any sense of the word I'm afraid. It may be fluffy but it's terrible. Fateweaver AND a Lord of Change and a Soulgrinder? You lose all of the advantage of Fateweaver's special ability because you have so many points sunk into a couple of guys. If you want to make a full Tzneetch Daemons army you're always going to be on the back foot but I'd drop the Lord of Change and Soulgrinder and stick in some shooting battery Daemon Princes, more screamers and more flamers. The lack of cc and sub-par shooting is always going to be a problem with mono-tzneetch daemons (shooting comes from the codex) as you're not supporting yourself with the combat prowess from the Khrone and Slannesh daemons.

7 pinkments:

jabberjabber said...

I'd recommend taking a pair of heralds (maybe on chariots) instead of the lord of change. The lone soul grinder should also be swapped for daemon princes as Kirby says. i.e. still fluffy, but a bit more competitive.

Wallshammer said...

Yeah, I've really been learning that horrors actually aren't that good at shooting. They at least hit with a good Strength weapon (4 is NOTHING to sneeze at, wounding almost everyone on 4) and have lots of shots... but so do guard.

I have been using my horrors as sacrificial lambs. I drop them, roll a TON of dice and don't kill lots. But, those ton of dice are intimidating and the opponent just targets them outright.

Now, Horrors are 4+ INVULNERABLE... pretty darned good and just a step below storm shield termies. They can soak up alot of fire that isn't rapid firing bolters. Then, your choppy/hitty stuff is in range to charge. Of course... in mono tzeentch you're relying on DP's to chop and hit.

Chumbalaya said...

So many points in expensive models is a no-no. Grinders are good, but they don't benefit from Fateweaver's abilities.

For Mono-Tzeentch, go for 4 chariot heralds and 3 Grinders for CC doom. Back it up with Flamers sporting Bolt (secondary AT, more mop up than anything), Screamers for tie up and threatening static mech and the requisite Horrors (not great AT platforms, so rely on numbers here).

As for Grinders vs DPs. DPs give you bolt, Grinders give you a real CC unit.

Wallshammer said...

Daemons are as good, I would argue better, in CC as Grinders. They're rolling 2d6 armor pen, they got high weapon skill and melta shot still gets a 4+ save.

Chumbalaya said...

Problem with using Tzeentch Princes for CC is T5. Yes you can laugh off melta and lascannons, but bolters will send you packing. Grinders suffer against melta, but they are much better equipped to tear up infantry and come in at a much lower cost.

Gunn Bot Mk IV said...

Wallshammer, the reason why TH terminators 3++ is a big deal is because it's attached to a 2+ armor, that means that neither anti-tank, nor anti-infantry is particularly effective against them. Saying that a 4++ with no accompanying armor save is almost as good as TH terminators is simply wrong, as it's not any better than cover, except against flamers, and it's not particularly better than carapace against many anti-infantry weapons.

Horrors simply aren't durable; trying to claim they are is a mistake.


Kirby said...

I prefer Princes for their shooting and not sticking out like a sore thumb against meltaguns. Ya if Grinders get into cc they rock but a huge footprint + only mech on the table generally leaves them vulnerable.

Agree with willy re: 4++ and survivability. lol

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