"BT fluff got me hooked on these guys, and I enjoy a challenge. I know they aren't as "broken" of a codex as some others, but that's kindof what I like about it. But, in playing a back-table codex like this, it makes it all the more important to play a tight game- and that starts with list building. I think I could use a bit of help in that department. This is what I'm working with currently:
Unnamed1850 Pts - Black Templars Army
1 Emperor's Champion @ 140 Pts
Bolt Pistol
#Black Sword [0]
#Crusader Seals [0]
#Frag Grenades [0]
Accept any Challenge [50]
8 Crusader Squad (Troops) @ 231 Pts
Bolt Pistol & CCW (x6); Bolt Pistol & Power Fist (x1); Meltagun (x1)
2 Neophytes @ [20] Pts
Bolt Pistol & CCW (x2)
1 Rhino @ [58] Pts
Smoke Launchers; Extra Armour; Repair; Storm Bolter
8 Crusader Squad (Troops) @ 231 Pts
Bolt Pistol & CCW (x6); Bolt Pistol & Power Fist (x1); Meltagun (x1)
2 Neophytes @ [20] Pts
Bolt Pistol & CCW (x2)
1 Rhino @ [58] Pts
Extra Armour; Smoke Launchers; Repair; Storm Bolter
8 Crusader Squad (Troops) @ 231 Pts
Bolt Pistol & CCW (x6); Bolt Pistol & Power Fist (x1); Meltagun (x1)
2 Neophytes @ [20] Pts
Bolt Pistol & CCW (x2)
1 Rhino @ [58] Pts
Smoke Launchers; Extra Armour; Repair; Storm Bolter
5 Crusader Squad (Troops) @ 196 Pts
Bolter (x3); Lascannon (x1); Meltagun (x1)
1 Razorback @ [91] Pts
Searchlight; Twin-linked Lascannon
5 Crusader Squad (Troops) @ 186 Pts
Bolter (x4); Lascannon (x1)
1 Razorback @ [91] Pts
Searchlight; Twin-linked Lascannon
1 Predator Destructor (Heavy Support) @ 126 Pts
Searchlight; 2 Sponson Lascannon; Turret Autocannon
5 Swd. Brth. Terminator Assault Squad (Elites) @ 509 Pts
Thunder Hm. & Storm Sh. (x2); Two Lightning Claws (x3); Furious Charge
1 Land Raider 'Crusader' @ [294] Pts
#Extra Armour; #Frag Launchers; Smoke Launchers; Searchlight; 2
'Hurricane' Bolters; Linked Assault Cannon; Multi-Melta
#Power of the Machine Spirit [0]
Blessed Hull [25]
Models in Army: 59
Total Army Cost: 1850
I'm still reading through the various Tactica online, but I think this list is already reasonably competitive. I've played it and won, although I have yet to go to a 5th Ed tourney. So I've got the Lazorbacks w/ the lascannon squad to help pop mechanized units, as well as provide me some heavier shots to empty into a deathstar unit in an emergency (TWC anyone?). If I can open the cans before my BT get there, all the better. The 5 LC/THSS terminators in the Crusader looks like a deathstar unit, but I just run it because LRC's are big and tough, and a rhino or two (especially the old style ones like I have) can tuck in behind it when running up-field into a blazing gun line. I honestly don't expect it to survive too long, but with smoke and going 12" I can usually get there in one go, with enough time for it to puke out terminators onto unhappily-sacrificed bubblewrap. Then the other Rhinos show up and do the Emperor's will all up in their chili. The Pred is there just to lob shots at what the Lascannon spam can't kill, or to soften up a squad before my Templar assault it. The termies and all the PF/melta is there to down high AV/MC's. I've got the dakka Preds as well as all of the bolter fire (hurricane, bolt pistols, etc) to deal with infantry, as well as the obvious swarm of Templar I can throw their way. I also kept everything mechanized, so I can juke and stay fluid, rather than locking in and getting stuck (as I have had so many of my Templar armies do).
So, what do you think?"
Thanks for the email Abortedsoul, good to know BT fluff still pulls in the punters.
So it looks as if you have a significant forward offensive element to your list, which is nice to see in a Templars list, but sadly is often more difficult to pull off. At 1850 you could probably just about fit in 2 LRCs with assault termies (and I mean JUST), but you've only included one, so I shalln't say any more on the subject.
The list is reasonable, which has been demonstrated by you winning with it, but it's certainly not optimised. If I were to do a single raider at 1850, I'd save the raider as a counter-assaulting unit, rather than a forward offensive one. But you have a little bit of support so you need to work around that. It's quite difficult to pull of a bit of shooty and a bit of fighty, there are very few lists that are capable of doing it. Are you? let's see.
The fire support consists of 2 las squads, 2 TLLC razors and 1 Autolas pred. That's really not a huge amount sadly. Although they can shoot at 5 separate targets, 2 lascannons are not reliable and 2 are on a flimsy, expensive AV11 hull.
The assault element is 3 rhinos full of marines and the LRC/termies. We (should) all know that marines are not great in combat. I think BT termies can achieve at least a 'good' rating in terms of combat, but that's nothing really to shout about. The termies will cause havoc... if they reach combat. Anybody that has played against them before will make sure they do not get off a turn 2 (or perhaps even 3) assault. That means the LRC has to survive for a good while, which it will struggle to do after it's pooped smoke and melta weapons have started to open up on it.
So what would I suggest? I'm assuming you want to keep your assault (rather than counter-assault) based nature, and don't want to head into dual-raider territory.
Drop the 2 Laserbacks, drop 1 or 2 initiates in each of the crusader squads and that meltagun in the lascannon squad. That gives us upto 270 points to play with. First of all, get a 2nd predator. The next 150 is tough to spend. I'd like to say get 2 MM/HF speeders, but I'm not wholly convinced. Just 2 won't be a huge threat and will be easy to take down at this level. A pair of assault support dreads would be nice, even if they're cheap AssCan(or MM)/DCCW dreads, but if you can't find the points for 2 (maybe lose one squad of home campers), one Ven Dread in a pod would be reasonable. It's not a huge threat, but it needs to be dealt with, it can support assault units and come down at about the same time that LRC goes BOOM.
I'll continue to think about the list, but maybe some others can help out. Sadly assault based Templars outside of a pair of assault terminator units is difficult.
