Ahoy kirby. I go by the name Saramoff in your chat. After finding 3++ through various sources I spoke with the great chat members and I was brought up to speed on 5th edition 40k. Being a Fantasy player for a while has thrown me out of the loop, especially regarding my 40k army of choice: tyranids.
The last tyranids i played was the 3rd edition of the Army book, and how things have changed! I've figured that I'd like to try a competitive list with a bit of a difference; focusing on Warriors, close combat and a centric focus on Medium Based models. After many days of talking with helpful chat members (VT2 and ShortDan were particularly helpful), we finally came up with something that both fits my choice of units as well as covering most bases. I'm still very new to 5th edition 40k and the most recent Tyranid Codex, so naturally this won't be perfect.
That's why this email is here. Here is a 2k point list that we made together:
HQ:
Prime: Lash Whip and Sword, Adrenal Glands, Regeneration. 115
Prime: Lash Whip and Sword, Adrenal Glands, Regeneration. 115
Heavy:
Three Hive Guard. 150
Three Hive Guard. 150
Two Zoanthropes: Mycetic Spore. 160
Core:
Six Warriors: Dual Boneswords, Deathspitters, Toxic Sacs, One Venom Cannon, Mycetic Spore. 350
Six Warriors: Dual Boneswords, Deathspitters, Toxic Sacs, One Venom Cannon, Mycetic Spore. 350
Sixteen Gants. 80 <- Prime goes here.
Sixteen Gants. 80 <- Prime goes here.
Tervigon: Regeneration, Toxic Sacs, Adrenal Glands, Catalyst, Cluster Spines. 225
Tervigon: Regeneration, Toxic Sacs, Adrenal Glands, Catalyst, Cluster Spines. 225
The basic idea is this. The primes go with the Gants as Ablative Wounds and start running towards the enemy (hoping to get a charge in and start breaking the enemy down). The Hive guard start to focus fire any vehicles down. The Warriors are dropped in, where their Deathspitters are used for suppression fire. The Warriors are my Close Combat machines which may or may not be joined by the Primes if necessary. Zoanthropes are to be dropped in when I find some AV14 that needs to be busted. The Tervigons are for both Catalyst, to draw fire and if the situation comes up, to run into a tank and rip it apart if the game turns that way.
I think I have most things covered, but it's always going to need improvements as my first list. I still want to go with a Warrior themed core if possible, and use them for the brutal close combat nightmares they are.
Thank you for your time!
Heya, Saramoff, glad you found our little chatbawks to be helpful. It's certainly possible to do with a core of Warriors, but I think there are some things we need to address here.
First of all, if you are using Termagants to be a way to draw fire, there's no need for Mycetic Spores, and if you want to use Spores, there's no reason to run "screens" of units. Splitting yourself between reserves and on-board units is a dangerous game, as it leaves a lot of your assets potentially out of the fight for a long time, and this list includes no way to speed up the arrival of its reserves.
So let's split things into two lists, both of them Warrior-themed. It has been requested that the Warriors stay with double-Bonesword, which I will yield to, though I think Whip/Sword is generally superior.
LIST 1: Playing Footsies
The idea here is to take maximum advantage of the resilience of Warriors and swarm the table with bodies. Resilience, you say? Resilience, says I! Despite the widespread whining about the loss of Eternal Warrior, the truth is you're actually very resistant to most guns by simply virtue of a combination of two factors: three wounds and easy cover. Three wounds mean that small arms fire (S7 or less, in this case) will have a hard time bringing you down, because they need a LOT of shots to put you down- it takes eighteen Bolter shots, on average, to drop a single Warrior. When people pump a whole Tactical Squad into something and kill one 30 or 35pt guy, they generally are not happy with that result. The second part is where the one-two punch gets them; yes, S8+ guns can kill them in a single shot, but unlike most targets they shoot with these weapons (vehicles and MCs), you have cover as easily available to you as any infantry model- and that means you should ALWAYS strive to make sure you are in cover. So now it's taking an average three-plus Lascannon shots to put down a single Warrior. A full squad of Long Fangs? Maybe gets two guys. The "easy" kills on Warriors aren't looking so sexy now.
But to really piss people off, we want to amplify their problems. We want to fight tooth and nail to keep our models alive, and we have two more excellent ways to do that. First up is the Tyranid Prime, which the above list already uses. This guy is an absolutely golden fit for a Warrior squad, as he hands out bonuses to them AND can soak up S8/9 shots and only lose a single wound to them. Slotting him into a squad, with Regen, can be a huge hassle for the opponent as their missiles and lances start to patter harmlessly off the squad, one by one. The second trick is a more fundamental one: target saturation. We want to give the opponent more things than he can shoot, and in this case we want more things than he can shoot with his big guns (since that's what it takes to bring Warriors down, generally). Specifically we will want some other medium-sized critters, like Lictors, Hive Guard, Zoanthropes, etc, and some MCs to draw fire away from our precious, precious Warriors. We also need tank-hunters, since Warriors on their own are not very good at this; they are best used to squat on an objective or to murder Marines, as we'll demonstrate in just a moment.
1985pts
Tyranid Prime (Whip/Sword, Toxin, Regen)
Tyranid Prime (Whip/Sword, Toxin, Regen)
3 Hive Guard
3 Hive Guard
2 Zoanthropes
10 Termagants
1 Tervigon (Adrenal, Toxin, Regen, Onslaught)
3 Warriors (Deathspitters, 1 Venom Cannon)
3 Warriors (Deathspitters, 1 Venom Cannon)
4 Warriors (Boneswords, Adrenal, 1 Venom Cannon)
4 Warriors (Boneswords, Adrenal, 1 Venom Cannon)
4 Shrikes (Boneswords, Adrenal)
5 Raveners (Rending Claws)
1 Tyrannofex (Rupture, Cluster)
So your anti-tank is a little weak here, but not completely underwhelming- Hive Guard and the TFex can break transports (transports are always your first target!) and the random Venom Cannons have a reasonable chance of suppressing some Rhinos and such. The Tervigon and Tyrannofex will advance in front of the Warriors to start, but can drop behind them if they get wounded, and the Termagants help keep Warriors covered and Go to Ground whenever anything is shot at them. With only one Tervigon you don't have a huge supply of them, so be a bit careful. The minimum Warrior squads sit on objectives and hang tight- they can likewise Go to Ground and become extremely annoying to get rid of and put out some minor firepower if they aren't. Primes go with the Zoeys, Guard, or bigger Warrior squads to soak wounds, provide ID protection, and keep everything going smooth. A couple of notes:
-Primes were given Toxin instead of Adrenal, because they are already I5 and have Whips; rerolling wounds against anything smaller than an MC (and wounding MCs on 4s) is a better deal than one-shot hurty power. The Warriors, on the other hand, need Adrenal because they can't afford to let Marines get lots of attacks in on you- you just aren't that tough, so you need to cause maximum casualties. Wounding on 3s when charging isn't as good as a reroll that you have all the time, but it helps a little when charging vehicles and it does what we need. (Note that Dual Swords + Adrenal is basically the cheapest "combat" Warrior at 45pts and is a pretty tough cookie against anything but a Power Fist.)
-MSU. This list has a lot of units in it; in fact, it actually fills its troop allotment. This makes it harder for pie plates to ruin your day and forces the enemy to waste firepower killing off the remnants of a unit- even just a single Warrior + Prime can cut through most of a Tactical Squad with ease, and thus can't be ignored. A big squad of six or seven three-wound models is an obvious target; several smaller ones are less so.
-Raveners and Shrikes are both extremely fast and can deliver firepower to places on the enemy's board where they don't expect them. Raveners are quite capable of covering 24" in a single turn and can play havoc with the enemy's rear line of support (stationary vehicles, shooty squads, etc.) The Shrikes are armed like Warriors and mostly are there so you can have one "extra" squad of them to bring down medium-weight targets- remember, with a 5+ save they take a lot more casualties in combat if anything survives.
-We take Onslaught over Catalyst because most of our units are rather resilient against small arms fire already, and Catalyst doesn't help against missiles/etc. Onslaught also helps get our anti-tank into position and can push the units with the Primes forward faster to get them into combat without sacrificing their shooting. However, if you find your Hive Guard dying to Autocannons, Scatter Lasers, etc, a lot you may want to try switching back. (Regen is something of a points-wasted, feel free to slip it out for something else instead; the list has some leftover points available anyways.)
LIST 2: Rain of Hell
Now, many of the above principles can be applied to a drop list as well; we still want to saturate the enemy with more things than he can deal with and we still want to take advantage of our survivability. However, the ways we do so are going to be a little different, as we can't really use the same suite of units to take out problems.
1995pts?
Hive Tyrant (Wings, HVC, Hive Commander)
3 Zoanthrope (Spore)
3 Zoanthrope (Spore)
3 Lictor
19 Termagants (Devourers, Spore, Venom Cannon)
Tervigon (Adrenal, Toxin, Catalyst)
3 Warriors (Deathspitters, Venom Cannon, Spore, Venom Cannon)
4 Warriors (Boneswords, Adrenal, Venom Cannon, Spore, Venom Cannon)
4 Warriors (Boneswords, Adrenal, Venom Cannon, Spore, Venom Cannon)
So we have a basic drop list with a few tricks; the Lictors can easily get behind a troublesome vehicle near a board edge or make a "wall" to help keep our Deep Striking accurate, if needed; don't underestimate them- six S6 shots will usually shake/stun a vehicle and make it easy prey for them to assault next turn. Zoanthropes are our other big tank-killers and should be one of the first units placed when things are Deep Striking in; it is critical that the rest of the army help protect them from assaults. The Tyrant should come in next, since he is the easies to mishap with and can place in a "safe" zone, taking advantage of the range on the HVC. The Devilgaunts should make sure to spread out and take advantage of cover- they can generally wipe out a squad on arriving, but are vulnerable to return fire. You have two pairs of objective holder/contester units (the Warriors) than can be brought in someplace inconvenient. The sheer number of Spores in the army means that some of them are practically guaranteed to end up getting in the enemy's way, and you already have lots of T4 wounds and MCs to chew through. Venom Cannons sprinkled liberally around the force will ensure that you can suppress at least some vehicles. The Tervigon is the odd man out and is there to Outflank (thanks to Hive Commander) and take a side objective somewhere- this is particularly handy in Capture And Control. The Warriors are your melee support and do a lot of damage to anything that charges the Zoanthropes or Devilgaunts, thinking it has found an easy kill; they otherwise join the objective-camping club with the minimized Warrior squads.
As your squads arrive, always make sure to be looking to cover. If you land in Difficult Terrain, the Spore needs to make a Dangerous Terrain test (possibly taking a wound), but the squad inside will be fine; if you end up in the open, don't be afraid to put the squad behind the Spore so they can benefit from cover- but remember that the Spores aren't very tough, so your cover may be short-lived. ALWAYS spread out the maximum allowed 2" when you climb out, as not being clustered up for templates/blasts is one of the big advantages of your "drop pods." Also try not to forget your Spore shooting; you're allowed to shoot in whatever order you want, so it may sometimes be beneficial for another unit to shoot first and get rid of a closest target that the Spore would otherwise be required to fire at without effect. Also remember that, as MCs, the Spores can shoot two guns (presumably its Tendrils + an upgrade) and is a monster in close combat if anyone is stupid enough to assault it.
Neither of these lists may be amazingly good, but they're certainly good enough that you shouldn't get laughed out of the room playing them (even if some people will roll their eyes at the Lictors because they just don't get it), and that's what we're aiming for here. I hope these lists are too your liking, Saramoff, and I'd be happy to answer any further questions/make changes.
