Bringer of Victory Nikephoros (more recently made even more internet famous by FNIF round 49) has sent in a list for review. Go check out his blog... Kirby, link it if you haven't already. Oh... and stop voting for yourself in the FNIF poll. Like you did?
I’ve been really in agony worrying about ‘Ard Boyz lists for BT. What I’ve linked to on my blog is a more fire power oriented list, but I’ve been also toying with the idea of just saying screw it, and bringing 30 assault terminators and just daring people to deal with it.
I know for a fact one of the better players at my store will be bringing a list with 30 TH/SS and Shrike, and I feel like the firepower list, while being a better all comers list, probably would lose to a rock list like that. This is what causes my agonizing. I’m worried about over or under metagaming. I don’t want to add 10 bubble wrap TH/SS to the above list just to beat one nasty list, if it will make me weaker against the field.
So questions…
What do you think of that list? And secondly, how about dropping the two Pod dreads and Typhoons for 10x TH/SS terminators? Which list is superior?
Thanks,
Nikephoros.
Here's the list...
Champ w/ Abhor 120
Marshal in Terminator Armor Power Sword/Storm Bolter 120
4x Command Squad Tank Hunters 2x Cyclone Launchers 225
Castellan in Terminator Armor Power Sword/Storm Bolter 105
4x Command Squad Tank Hunters 2x Cyclone Launchers 225
Venerable Dread Tank Hunter TLLC, Missile Launcher 165
Dreadnought Multimelta Drop Pod 145
Dreadnought Multimelta Drop Pod 145
Land Speeder Typhoon 70
Land Speeder Typhoon 70
5x Initiates Missile Launcher, Plasmagun, TLLC Razor x4 744
3x Predator Destructor w/ Lascannons 375
So what do I think...
I don't have a huge amount of experience at 2500, but as I said on Nikephoros' blog it doesn't quite pack what I'd expect from BT at this level. The 2 dreads will turn up unreliably, the 2 speeders will be pretty easy to down and as single entities won't cause too much concern. Abhor is an okay vow, but I think AAC really comes into it's own at higher points values - more and more bodies for preferred enemy.
How would I change things up?
Personally I'd start with my 2k list and start to scale it.
Emperor's Champion - Accept any Challenge - 140
Sword Brethren Terminator Squad - CML x 2, Tank hunters - 265
Sword Brethren Terminator Squad - CML x 2, Tank hunters - 265
Dreadnought - TL-LC, ML, Venerable, Tank Hunter - 165
Crusader Squad - Las/Plas - TLLC Razor - 191
Crusader Squad - Las/Plas - TLLC Razor - 191
Crusader Squad - Las/Plas - Rhino - SL - 159
Crusader Squad - Las/Plas - Rhino - SL - 159
IST - Melta x 2 - 70
IST - Melta x 2 - 70
Land Speeder Squadron - 2 x TML, 1 x MM - 155
Land Speeder Squadron - 2 x TML, 1 x MM - 155
Land Speeder Squadron - 2 x TML - 140
Predator Destructor - Lascannon Sponsons - 125
Predator Destructor - Lascannon Sponsons - 125
Predator Destructor - Lascannon Sponsons - 125
Purely on output... here we go...
Missiles - 13 (I think you miscalculated) vs 20
TLLC - 5 vs 3
Lascannons - 6 vs 10
Melta - 2 MM vs 2 MM + 4 MGs
The important thing for me is the number of potential targets that can get hit by reasonable firepower. The Preds, Speeder squadrons, Termies will all reliable shake/stun some light armour. The Ven dread can probably be added to this and we still have 4 las/plas squads and 2 TLLC razors, which will probably damage 2-3 more targets. That's 10-11 targets that can be reasonably reliably supressed. Comparing that to your list, I'd say it's more likely 8-9. I would say my list also has an equal, if not more anti-horde capability.
Both lists have 14 hulls, 2 of yours are reasonably ineffectual, but more are mine are a dismal AV10, making them easier to suppress.
All I can say is playtest many different variants and see what works. I personally like units that will drop 3-4 shots so you can be reasonably sure they'll cause some problems. 3 units of 2 speeders have worked out well for me so far and will bother any lists that are light mech heavy.
Don't worry about those dumb 30 TH/SS lists. Such lists need to be dealt with in other ways. Blocking 3-6 of these units is not that tough and once you take apart their support, they're really not all that. You only need to force Ld tests on each of the squads and they start becoming less and less fast as a whole. Thirty BT assault terminators would do very well in the early stages, but a properly built list will take them to pieces.
All the best, and continue to fight those BT derps sir!
