"Hi Kirby,
I have been following your blog since GK rumors came out, and I really like the stuff I see on 3++. The information I got so far is very useful in my games. Since I don't play many games, sharing your thoughts and experiences on the blog is a great help.
Anyways, I'm building a Grey Knights 1,750 points for this month LGS tournament, and I would like to get your and the 3++ guys' some help.
So far, I have been reading through people's comments and experiences a lot from various sites, and I decided to copy-paste parts of the template of full GK forces that I like. The problem is to complete the list with some support option.
The list includes core GKSS dudes with psybolt for nasty shooting, Libby, and Psyflemen. I chose core GKSS troops over Crowe-Purifier because I want to go for shooty list as I think people new to GK will be surprised at how shooty they can be(from a dude with big ass sword!!). GKSS also can combat-squad in objective missions to cover more field. I also don't include any henchmen, since I tend to be too aggressive in Kill Points mission and tend to give away kill points easily with those soft targets, just my bad habits I guess. Libby is there because I will be facing a lot of psychic powers, and the hood will be a great help. As for Psyflemen, well... you know why they are there... Anyways here's the first draft of the list:
All good points. Looks like we are going to be building a pure GK list! Everyone cheers for the lack of Coteaz usage...
Template so far:
HQ
Libby 170
Shrouding, Sanctuary, Might, Summoning(may replace with Quick Silver)
3 x Skulls
Troops
10 x GKSS (MC Hammer, 2 x Psycannon, Psybolt, Rhino) 295
10 x GKSS (MC Hammer, 2 x Psycannon, Psybolt, Rhino) 295
10 x GKSS (MC Hammer, 2 x Psycannon, Psybolt, Rhino) 295
Heavy Support
Dreadnought (2 x Twin-link Autocannon, Psybolt) 135
Dreadnought (2 x Twin-link Autocannon, Psybolt) 135
Total so far: 1,340 pts.
Points left: 410 pts.
Pretty 'standard' and solid core of an army there with Elite and Fast Attack slots to play with. My first and standard reaction is Purifiers. They help secure midfield with the GKSS and with some cheap upgrades are no slouches in combat against a variety of foes. Obviously upgrading to a 3rd psyflemen isn't a bad idea either though this leaves you in an awkward situation with your Elites unless you're looking at a single Purifier squad. Assassins are also options as are Venerable Dreads, Interceptor Squads, GKT/Paladins+Techmarines and Storm Ravens. I really think fitting in GKT, Techmarines and Storm Ravens will be hard with the points you have available and with only five tanks even a Paladin squad isn't going to have the saturation needed to be scary so we'll look more closely are more Dreads, Purifiers, Interceptors and Assassins.
Before we do, let's see what you've come up with though and if there is a solution for that pesky Librarian in TDA.
The list so far gives me a good confidence in taking on most armies with AV11-12 transports, but I feel that the list still lacks a few items to take care of the following scenarios:
- Heavy Close Combat Counter: TH/SS Termie, Incubi, Thunder Wolfs, Nob Bikers, Trygons, etc...
- Hordes Close Combat Counter: Boys, Wych, Genestealers, etc...
- Taking Out Hidden Heavy Shooting: Long Fangs Missile squad behind cover, Tau suits jump forward and back, Tanks behind cover, etc...
- AV13/14 tanks
Not really with the first one. Yes if they get into combat you're pretty screwed but the amount of wounds your army can generate at 24" is staggering. All GK based GK armies have this ability really. This helps against foot shooting units such as Long fangs, etc. as well. It takes more work to get to these guys obviously but once you're within 24" you can happily shoot a bunch of stormbolters + psycannons at them and they do disappear. Multiple psycannons are also pretty good against higher AVs. Not as good as melta obviously but solid none the less.
Hordes though...well ya they can be a pain. You don't have the MSU capabilities (though combat squadding helps) to really feed these guys a unit or a tank a turn and still maintain an effective fighting force. In the end GK are expensive Marines and whilst better than most generalists at combat, cry to the likes of hordes, etc.
The first dudes that came into my mind were the Purifiers, as they can take down just about anybody in combat (cleansing for hordes and hammerhand for tough targets). The problem with Purifiers are their delivery system (their transport). If I give them a Rhino, then one squad will have to walk with Libby. The rest of the points, I can buy another Psyfleman or a Vindicare to take out AV14 from far away. Vindicare is really nice, although the problem is his lack of mobility. Vindicare can help to take out AV13/14 for sure, but Purifiers will have to take care of counter assault and route out hidden units by themselves.. which feels like asking a bit much from them. Anyways, the options as follow:
8 x Purifiers (2 x Psycannon, 6 x Halberds, Rhino) + Vindicare = 409
8 x Purifiers (2 x Psycannon, 6 x Halberds, Rhino) + Psyfleman = 399
I prefer the 2nd option TBH as you're getting two more tanks onto the field with the Purifier all-round happy happy joy joy. Obviously the Libby doesn't have an easy ride but a GKSS squad can combat squad for him to join with or he can run behind all the Rhinos and attempt to hide out of sight. This can be hit or miss on occasion though which leaves the Libby vulnerable to being sniped. At the same time a Libby without a tank to ride doesn't provide as much reach regarding Shrouding and Sanctuary which we would like to maximise obviously.
I can also give the Purifiers a Storm Raven, so Libby can have a nice ride and provide the lovely 3+ cover flat out and so forth. SR will help Purifier do their job better and can add fire support of its own. Finally, I can also add a small squad of Interceptor with incinerator to shunt behind enemy line and flame/hammer annoying stuff while Purifiers take care of counter assaults.
7 x Purifiers (2 x Psycannon, 5 x Halberds, Storm Raven+Psybolt) = 423 (take out skulls for points)
7 x Purifiers (2 x Psycannon, 5 x Halberds, Rhino) + 5 x interceptors (incinerator, MC Hammer) = 403
The problem here is we are taking units of one. The Interceptors are expensive for 1A models but do provide some excellent mobility and movement options. I'd rather see at least two+ squads of these however. Same with the Stormraven. It gives a great place for the Libby to ride and is a good delivery system for the Purifiers but since there is only one and it contains two very valuable units (whilst having decent firepower itself), it's a huge target for your opponent.
Another thing I got from Hero's great blog is the usefulness of Paladins. Although I think Terminators suffer the current meta-game of melta spam, they can certainly be nasty. They can also Deep Strike with Libby to take out tough stuff later on in the game. I must admit though, the last time I DS my termie behind the enemy line to shoot at a tank, they were melta-ed and large-blasted to a single man. I still struggle a lot with finding the right use for Terminators.
Taken from Hero blog:
6 x Paladins (2 x MC Psycannon, Halberds, Banner) = 410
I'm so-so on Paladins. I think if you want to use them you need to max out tanks as much as possible elsewhere to create target saturation for them and have a character capable of taking instant death hits without dying (hi Karadread). With that in mind I then prefer them to be a 'cheap' mobile fire platform which hurts most things in combat quite nastily. Without the points here for Karadread or the like, I'd steer away from them.
To recap all the options so far:
- 8 x Purifiers (2 x Psycannon, 6 x Halberds, Rhino) + Vindicare = 409
- 8 x Purifiers (2 x Psycannon, 6 x Halberds, Rhino) + Psyfleman = 399
- 7 x Purifiers (2 x Psycannon, 5 x Halberds, Storm Raven+Psybolt) = 423 (take out skulls for points)
- 7 x Purifiers (2 x Psycannon, 5 x Halberds, Rhino) + 5 x interceptors (incinerator, MC Hammer) = 403
- 6 x Paladins (2 x MC Psycannon, Halberds, Banner) = 410
So, what support elements do you think will best cover all the possible lists/scenarios that I will have to face?
I'm liking Purifier+interceptor and Purifier+Storm Raven list so far, since they give me the "shunt" moves flexibility. Right now I'm very open for ideas, so if you have any thoughts/comments please do. I am also thinking about getting more points by dropping Libby for Inquisitor and/or dropping/reducing one GKSS squad to get points for more "elite" units.
Thank you very much!
- Wupin"
Keeping with what you have I'd prefer the Purifier + Dread option. As I said above, the single Raven and Interceptor squads just don't cut it for me as whilst they provide flexibility there's only one of them. Adding an Inquisitor + Henchmen squad would be a great place to drop your Librarian though but you again get the issue of just a single unit (though here is more feasible as the target priority is mildly lower compared to a chock-full Storm Raven). If you took one squad of Purifiers this could be an option. There is of course the option of diversifying your unit setup as well and going for a mix of MSU and large squads to get some more firepower into the mix (5 man GKSS w/Psyback).
So here I think are your best options:
1) Purifier squad + Psyflemen
This is basically your suggestion from before. The issue with this list is your lack of units (7+4 rhinos) even with combat squads. This limits your firepower spread and ability to react. That being said your units are very durable, particularly with the Libby around.
2) 2x small Purifiers w/Psybacks
Same issue as before with firepower spread and ability to react but with the Psybacks you are at least gaining some firepower.
3) Inq + Hench + 2x small Purifiers w/Psybacks
I'd personally be looking at number 2 or 3 as you gain more units on the table without going full MSU. Combined with the ability to combat squad your GKSS this gives you some more tactical options depending upon the game whilst still being a very strong midfield threat and increasing your overall firepower.
