Possible Event Horizon Options Part II

Monday, April 4, 2011

Possible Event Horizon Options Part II

Posted by Vinsanity

Yo playas, so me and Mr Taak have been working (for 4! hours) on a different White Scars list for EH to use. Rawrtime's list in chatbawks forced me to look at this one and make changes to it...

I must put in here that I can't take either IG list now as there is too much to buy and Mr Pink has maxed his credit card so I am limited in what I can buy from Wayland. So after extensive crying in the corner, I decided that I will aim to take the Scars to take some heads for Khannnn! Or whatever them do. Ahem...

So the initial list was comprised of thusly:

1850 White Scars
Captain - Bike, Relic Blade
2 x 8 Bikes - PF, 2 x MGs, AB w/ MM
1 x 4 Bikes - 2 x MGs, AB w/ MM
1 x 4 Bikes - 1 MG, 1 Flamer, AB w/ MM
3 x 2 Typhoons - TML, HBs
2 x Predators - AC, HBs

29 Bikes
8 Vehicles

Now what do I think is not too great about this list? The buying, building and painting of 6 speeders... But seriously thinking, I think it lacks saturation, a combat unit and psychic defense (and racks a diciprine.) The saturation aspect comes from the 6 speeders being fragile and the preds being out of place. The CC threat element isn't there because there is no command squad. The psychic defense (lack thereof) is worrying, especially with GKs being out there now...

So anyways, I thought that while that list has good shooting at range, bikers close the distance so fast that it isn't necessary most of the time. Those 6 typhoons are so pricey and so fragile and that worries me a fair bit about the first list.

So anywho, me and Taak came up with another one:

1850 White Scars II

Captain - Bike, Relic Blade
Command Squad - Bikes, Apothecary; 1 - SS, TH; 2 - SS, MG, LC; 3 - SS, MG; 4 - LC
Librarian - Bike, Null Zone, Avenger
2 x 8 Bikes - PF, 2 x MGs, AB w/ MM
1 x 8 Bikes - PF, 2 x Flamers, AB w/ HB
3 x 2 Attack Bikes - MMs

So I think its better... Only me then? :( Its got saturation (all bikes), its got some more CC ability (command) and its got psy defense (el libbo). But it seems harder to play as well...

I can always just fall back on the Night Lords as the back up army...

So anyway, I'll wrap it up and leave it to the pinkies to rip it up and to softly troll Taak...

Comments (19)

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+1 Vote up Vote down

artemi7 78p · 731 weeks ago

Also, uh... Didn't White Scars win the poll that was on the main site? *laugh*

7 replies · active 731 weeks ago

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Kirby 118p · 731 weeks ago

Vince is notorious for ignoring poll results...

I don't think the Libby is a necessity. I'd love to see multiple Typhoons as it gives you punch early for pretty cheap. The Libby + ABs (which are a huge target) should give you 4 otherwise just get more Bikes instead of ABs.

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@bryce963 · 731 weeks ago

I think I would tend to agree, without squishy infantry you don't need psychic defense as much.
Though the chance to disrupt Eldar, Wolves, BAngels, and now Grey Knights is not to be underestimated.

I also think that speeders would be better multi melta platforms, or rocket gun boats. But I just really do like speeders.

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Auretious Taak · 731 weeks ago

Yes and no. We went over all sorts of variants, and one thing alot of people do miss is that with 12" deployment zone, those AB's which are half the cost of the speeders (Typhoons with MM are the way to go, they add a heck of a lot of versatility) have an effective 48" reach (12" deploy, 12" move 24" range) and with paired MM's instead of kraks you can penetrate even the heaviest armour with them. They also have some anti-infantry in the twin-linked relentless bolters and with 2-4 shots re-rolling misses come out at about the same as paired frag missiles. The other advantage is that they can turbo boost, throw more attacks into the mix and also act to provide cover to the other units more easily then the speeders can.

You mention the AB's as a huge target, well the Typhoons are equally as much a target if not more with either a 540 or 600pt target written all over them.

I think I'd prefer machine curse over avenger though, it's guaranteed suppression which is always useful.

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@bryce963 · 731 weeks ago

The attack bikes are most definitely a smaller target than a speeder that starts a few inches into the air.

I guess really with the speeders(I know you weren't replying to me) I just like them more, and the versatility and range of the typhoon is something the army lacks otherwise.
But in this list I do think the MM attack bikes are a better choice, I just prefer speeders, though I can't get a bike army with Space Wolves.

+2 Vote up Vote down

Rawrtime 31p · 731 weeks ago

hehe glad to see that I shook up your Scars list abit.
Originally when i thought of my army I did honestly think of taking an army like you have just written then, with the supporting lots of MM AB's to really reach out and touch the enemy while the other bikes zoomed up close. But what i have found is that with only 1 command squad and no AV on the table, all your opponents antitank goes straight into your command squad (and even though command squad's are strong, they still hate that kind of shooting and you will lose them fast at that rate, even with turboboost).

So after seeing what was happening with that I swapped that around for:
capt'n (relic, SS, MB, bike)
plazma command squad (2xLC's,3xSS,TH&4xplazmaguns)
Libby (bike, avenger, nullzone)
2xFullbike squads w'Fist,2xmelta & MM AB
1x5man bike squads w'2xmelta & MM AB
3 xD akka pred's
1750 total

Part 1

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Rawrtime 31p · 731 weeks ago

With this variation i found that the plazma command evaporated things with nullzone support ( usually overkill) but i still struggeled to threaten/surpress transports and drop wounds on MC's etc. I did find fthat the predators soaked up a good ammount of antitank that would have otherwise ripped my command to pieces. So i thought another variation on chat last night, that sparked vinsanity & taak's musings.

capt'n (relic, SS, bike)
plazma command squad (2xLC's,3xSS,TH&4xplazmaguns)
2x Riflemen
2xFullbike squads 2xmelta & MM AB (1 w'Fist)
1x5man bike squads w'2xmelta & MM AB
2 xD akka pred's
1750 total

This list loses the librarian support but it still capitolises on the smashy command squad, and maintains my good selection of troops w' melta whilst adding 2 riflemen for greatly increased supression and ability to throw down wounds on MC and surpress from range allowing the bike squads to close in to deliver the final blow.

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Kirby 118p · 731 weeks ago

The AB v Speeder argument has been done numerous times and they are both good choices. In this type of list though Typhoons have the advantage of being more viable from reserve, squadron status for vehicles and long range. The ABs have to get closer to be effective.

Whilst both are primary targets for anti-tank fire in an otherwise foot based list, Speeders are at least able to mitigate some of this through range, reserves, squadron status, etc.

-2 Vote up Vote down

chaplain centuris · 731 weeks ago

With either list i would recommend at least 2 tact squads in transports. Someting needs to claim thand hold those objectives. Unless you plan on tableing every opponet..

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black_rose_00 29p · 731 weeks ago

I've been playing bikes for a year now and the 8 man units with 2 meltaguns and a MM AB are not what I prefer in the bike army. The purpose of the bikes is to play keep away while still pouring shots in the targets. When you are closer then 12" to your target you better be pretty sure you will shoot it dead or else you get charged. Command squads aren't everywhere.

At 2000pts I run:
2 X captains with relic blade on bike
2 X command sqaud on bike with (Apo, TH+SS+melta,LC+SS+meltagun, LC+SS+flamer, SS+Meltagun)
5 X Bike, Bike with meltagun, Bike with plasmagun, Sergent, AB with MM at 190 points each and they are really worth it.

At 1850 with only one command I would run
Captain, relic blade, artificer armor, storm shield, bike
Librarian, bike, null zone + whatever
Command Squad on bike (Apo, TH+SS+SS, LC+SS+meltagun, LC+SS+meltagun+MB, LC+SS+Flamer)
3 X Bike, Bike, Bike with melta, bike with plasma, sergent with fist, Attack Bike with MM
1 X Bike, Bike, Bike with melta, bike with plasma, sergent with combi-melta, Attack Bike with MM
1 X Bike, bike with plasma x 2, sergent, Attack Bike with MM

With this kind of list you stay 13"-24" from your enemy and bust him out of his tanks and shoot the crap out of him with everything on the next turn. Command squad does cleanup duty and soak up LOTS of firepower that is not going in your bikes. A lot of people do not like plasma on the bikes because of overheat, the chances of it happening are not to bad and you really want an other bike helping out your MM AB at 24" even if it's just for suppression. I found that meltaguns are great to pop out your opponent from his tanks but then you are in charge range so you get beat up. And when you do not face tanks your plasma is gold against FNP and monstrous creatures.

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KingCronan · 731 weeks ago

i like the typhoons because they also give you some long range shooting. You already have a lot of melta so i feel getting long range strength 8 in there would be good. but i also really feel the need for the close combat punch of the command squad maybe drop the breads from the 1st list and mess around with some things to fit the command squad in?

just my thoughts :)

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Smurfy · 731 weeks ago

My list looks like rose's now only lieu of Relic Blades I have opted for LCs to gain more plasma:

HQ: Captain - Space Marine Bike, Lightning Claw & Combi-Plasmagun -160
HQ: Captain - Space Marine Bike, Lightning Claw & Combi-Plasmagun -160

** Command Squad: Bikes
1x Lightning Claw, Storm Shield, Meltagun
1x Lightning Claw, Bolt Pistol
1x Lightning Claw, Storm Shield, Flamer
1x Power Fist, Storm Shield, Meltagun
1x Apothecary -345

Transport: Razorback - Lascannon & TL Plasmagun -75

** Command Squad: Bikes
1x Lightning Claw, Storm Shield, Meltagun
1x Lightning Claw, Bolt Pistol
1x Lightning Claw, Storm Shield, Flamer
1x Power Fist, Storm Shield, Meltagun
1x Apothecary -345

Transport: Razorback - Lascannon & TL Plasmagun -75

TR: 9 Space Marine Bikes (Usually Combat-Squadded)
A: 5 Bikes - 2 Meltaguns
B: 4 Bikes - Sgt: Combi Plasmagun & Multi Melta -295

TR: 5 Space Marine Bikes: 2 Plasmaguns; Multi Melta -195
TR: 5 Space Marine Bikes: 2 Plasmaguns; Multi Melta -195
TR: 5 Space Marine Bikes: 2 Flamers; Sgt: Meltabombs -155

-2000/2000-

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Smurfy · 731 weeks ago

And rose, l2 get close and shoot down the transports and charge occupants.

1 reply · active 731 weeks ago

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Smurfy · 731 weeks ago

At least with Commands, my army has 2 commands and the captains attached to the 4 man bike unit. But other units can do it too, if its MSU mech bikers should eat that kind of army.

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Loriness · 731 weeks ago

bike army without command squad for CC power will loose - eventually. Armies without some cc will loose, just not balance.
Plasma on bikes are also fail. Less fail if it is on the command squad.

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SneakyDan · 731 weeks ago

Comm squads should be 2 x melta, 2 x plasma. Hitting power to stop tanks, ranged shots to supress (especially on side armour) and and lots of ap1/2 shots to deal with MC's/ paladins/nobs and the like.

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Smurfy · 731 weeks ago

Fixed it a bit to meet SneakyDan's criteria (a bit), am liking it:

HQ) Captain: Space Marine Bike; Lightning Claw & Combi-Plasmagun -160
HQ) Captain: Space Marine Bike; Lightning Claw & Combi-Plasmagun -160

**) Command Squad: Space Marine Bikes
1x Flamer & Bolt Pistol
1x Lightning Claw, Storm Shield, Meltagun
1x Lightning Claw, Storm Shield, Plasmagun
1x Power Fist, Storm Shield, Meltagun
1x Apothecary - Bolt Pistol & CCW

**) Command Squad: Space Marine Bikes
1x Flamer & Bolt Pistol
1x Lightning Claw, Storm Shield, Meltagun
1x Lightning Claw, Storm Shield, Plasmagun
1x Power Fist, Storm Shield, Meltagun
1x Apothecary - Bolt Pistol & CCW

TR: 9 Space Marine Bikes - (Combat Squads)
5 Bikes: 1 Meltagun, Sgt
4 Bikes: 1 Plasmagun, Multi-Melta

TR: 9 Space Marine Bikes - (Combat Squads)
5 Bikes: 1 Meltagun, Sgt
4 Bikes: 1 Plasmagun, Multi-Melta Attack Bike(Captain attached here)

TR: 9 Space Marine Bikes - (Combat Squads)
5 Bikes: 1 Meltagun, Sgt
4 Bikes: 1 Plasmagun, Multi-Melta Attack Bike(Captain attached here)

TR: 9 Space Marine Bikes - (Combat Squads)
5 Bikes: 2 Meltaguns
4 Bikes: Multi-Melta Attack Bike

FST: 5 Scout Bikers - 2 Astartes Grenade Launchers; Sgt - Meltabombs

Lightened up the command squads here to fit more guns in. The Scout bikers are in as I really couldn't think of anything better to replace them with for the costs. Each unit has min Ld 9 but the double melta Troops team. Any suggestions on what to replace said scouts with or how to shift things around would be appreciated.

2 replies · active 731 weeks ago

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Smurfy · 731 weeks ago

scratch one of the

TR: 9 Space Marine Bikes - (Combat Squads)
5 Bikes: 1 Meltagun, Sgt
4 Bikes: 1 Plasmagun, Multi-Melta Attack Bike(Captain attached here)

units for 2k, my bad copy n paste

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Smurfy · 731 weeks ago

Arg OCD!

HQ) Captain: Space Marine Bike; Lightning Claw & Combi-Plasmagun -160
HQ) Captain: Space Marine Bike; Lightning Claw & Combi-Plasmagun -160

**) Command Squad: Space Marine Bikes
1x Plasmagun & Bolt Pistol
1x Lightning Claw, Storm Shield, Meltagun
1x Lightning Claw, Storm Shield, Plasmagun
1x Power Fist, Storm Shield, Meltagun
1x Apothecary - Bolt Pistol & CCW

**) Command Squad: Space Marine Bikes
1x Plasmagun & Bolt Pistol
1x Lightning Claw, Storm Shield, Meltagun
1x Lightning Claw, Storm Shield, Plasmagun
1x Power Fist, Storm Shield, Meltagun
1x Apothecary - Bolt Pistol & CCW

TR: 9 Space Marine Bikes - (Combat Squads)
5 Bikes: 1 Meltagun, Sgt
4 Bikes: 1 Plasmagun, Multi-Melta Attack Bike(Captain attached here)

TR: 9 Space Marine Bikes - (Combat Squads)
5 Bikes: 1 Meltagun, Sgt
4 Bikes: 1 Plasmagun, Multi-Melta Attack Bike(Captain attached here)

TR: 9 Space Marine Bikes - (Combat Squads)
5 Bikes: 2 Meltaguns
4 Bikes: Multi-Melta Attack Bike

FST: 3 Scout Bikers - 2 Astartes Grenade Launchers; Sgt - Meltabombs