
As some of you know (or not...) I've been tinkering the past few weeks with a pure Crowe list. I started off with what I thought was an awesome list, but then I scrubbed it once I realized Crowe wasn't an IC. I went through the standard moaning and groaning of "Oh why Crowe must you suck and not have IC status so I can attach you somewhere?!" which was prevalent a few weeks back amongst many in the forum-sphere. Yet after much thinking and contemplating (and of course trying to make a list with a GM), I decided to revisit Crowe and see if it was in fact possible to make a decent list. I also did some reading up on Stelek's concept of 4+2 and realized that it would actually work really well with a Crowe/Purifier list. And so begins the journey into the inner workings of Roland's mind and his (feeble? awesome? EPIC?) attempt at making a solid and diverse Crowe/Purifier list....
When making a Crowe/Purifier list at 2000pts there are many methods with which we can shape and build the army. Kirby has shown one method, whereby we take mid-size Purifier squads in Rhinos backed by Psyflemen Dreads/Ven Dreads as the predominant driving force in the list. I decided to go a slightly different route with armor saturation. Either way, we need to start off the same with HQ. HQ wise, to make this list true pure Purifier, we need Crowe so...
HQ: Castellan Crowe - 150pts.
So we're down 150pts and we now have the ability unlock Purifiers as Troops. Some would now go straight to the Purifiers and start building squads. I'm going to hold off on that for a minute as I feel one of the greatest strengths of the new GK codex is their Librarians, and we would be remiss if we turned down the opportunity to field one. Yes this means we have yet another model who will have to run alongside our Rhino/RBack wall, but the ability to buff all those Purifiers and and cast Shrouding on the wall to give them more survivability is more than worth it sooo...
HQ: Librarian, Sanctuary, Might of Titan, Shrouding - 165
We now have the ability to shut down our opponents psychic abilities, as well as give our Purifiers S6 and/or protect them from assaults or protect their transports from shooting. So we've spent 315pts on HQs...it's time to start building the core of our army, the breadwinners of a Crowe list: Purifier squads.
Initially I went for 4X Purifier squads loaded out as follows:
Purifier Squad, 2X Psycannons, 2X Halberds, 1X Daemon Hammer, Asscan Rback with Psybolt Ammo - 239pts a pop, so 4 of them set us back 956pts...so almost half of the army sunk into these 4 small fragile Troops choices. This coupled with our 2 HQs, set us back 1271pts.
Now that we have a nice (though weak) core force, we can look at Heavy Support. Well we definitely need the ranged AT to support this Army and help shut down enemy armor/distance AT so we can grab:
Dreadnought, 2X TL Autocannon - 135
We get two of these and because nobody likes crazy flying MC's with giant flamers of DOOM, we'll grab a Dreadknight:
Dreadknight, Heavy Incinerator, Teleporter - 235.
The Dreadknight give us the ability to either Deep Strike in and burnanate some bubble wrap / cause a huge distraction which will take focus from our Razorback wall, or we could have him jump around with the Wall of Steel and support assaults / remove bubble wrap so the Purifiers can get at the juicer targets as well. Finally, he allows us the late game opportunity to jump onto an objective held by an opponent and hopefully force them off with the use of that Heavy Incinerator. Granted this is could be an expensive (235pt) distraction, but if it takes attention away (even for a little bit) from the bigger threats (Dreadnoughts and Purifiers) then in the end it is an acceptable expenditure.
All told, this bring us to 1776pts....so we're just shy of 2000. Let's try and see if we can fit in a 5th Purifier squad like the ones above....
...Nope that puts us at 2015. Even if we shaved points 5 weak squads in Asscan Rbacks isn't that great. We need more bodies and we need the ability to have guys sit at home and still reach out and touch somebody. So let's revisit our 4 Purifier Squads. Let's keep 2 squads with the original set-up so:
Purifier Squad: 2X Psycannons, 2X Halberds, 1X MC Daemon Hammer, Asscan Razorback, Psybolt Ammo - 239pts
Purifier Squad: 2X Psycannons, 2X Halberds, 1X MC Daemon Hammer, Asscan Razorback, Psybolt Ammo - 239pts
This sets us back 478pts. Now if we downgrade the other two squads to regular Razorbacks we have:
Purifier Squad: 2X Psycannons, 2X Halberds, 1X Daemon Hammer, Rback, Psybolt Ammo - 199pts.
Purifier Squad: 2X Psycannons, 2X Halberds, 1X Daemon Hammer, Rback, Psybolt Ammo - 199pts.
Now I think this squad is a solid overall build for 5 man Purifier Squads, as you got 2 guys going at I6 (which is on par with some of the better assault units) 2 guys going I4 (with the rest of the MEQ world), and if there is anything alive after that, you've got your I1 Hammer. This also works well for wound allocation as you have 3 distinct groups with which to pass wounds around.
Let's pause for a sec now and take stock of what we have and add things up. We've shaved some points by dropping two Purifier squads to regular Rbacks, so let's see where this leaves us...
HQ - Crowe (150) +Libby (165) = 315
Troops: Asscan Purifier Squad (239)*2 + Rback Purifier Squad (199)*2 = 876
Heavy Support: Psyfleman Dread (135)*2 + Jumpy Dreadknight (235) = 505
Total: 1696
So we have 300pts left over. What shall we get? Well we've got 4 Armor hulls and 2 Dreadnought Hulls and a jumpy Dreadknight, so we need some more AV saturation. We could add another Purifier Squad for 199 and have more long range dakka, but it's not really necessary. As I said the 4 Purifiers are the go-getters in this list; their fire support vehicles are there to lay down some light suppressive fire, maybe slow down some of those opposing AV11 vehicles headed your way. In the end though their main role is to get your Purifiers into combat (somewhat) safely and double up as a fire support threat. With all that said, we need some guys to sit at our home objective and have the ability to still reach out and support our more aggressive, Purifier elements so:
GKSS: Rbacks, Psybolt Ammo - 150pts
GKSS: Rbacks, Psybolt Ammo - 150pts
And with that last 300pts we get 2 squads who can sit at our home (or close) objectives all game and throw out some 36" S6 shots to keep people away, maybe even threaten some light vehicles. If anyone does get close and wants to take the objective away, they've got 5 dudes with Force Weapons sitting there. Granted 5 strong squads aren't the greatest at taking/holding objectives, but if we factor in Hammerhand and the Force Weapons on these home base protectors, they pose a decent enough threat to anyone trying to take it from them. We could shave the points off the MC Daemon Hammers to give these guys some Halberds, but my rationale is simple: the GKSS's main job is to sit in their Rback and hold any home objectives. Only if they must disembark will they.
And thus, here's our final list at 2000pts:
Roland's Defenders of the Faith
HQ:
Castellan Crowe - 150
Libby: Sanctuary, Might of Titan, Shrouding - 165
TROOPS:
Purifier Squad: 2X Psycannons, 2X Halberds, 1X MC Daemon Hammer, Asscan Razorback, Psybolt Ammo - 239pts
Purifier Squad: 2X Psycannons, 2X Halberds, 1X MC Daemon Hammer, Asscan Razorback, Psybolt Ammo - 239pts
Purifier Squad: 2X Psycannons, 2X Halberds, 1X Daemon Hammer, Rback, Psybolt Ammo - 199pts.
Purifier Squad: 2X Psycannons, 2X Halberds, 1X Daemon Hammer, Rback, Psybolt Ammo - 199pts.
GKSS: Rbacks, Psybolt Ammo - 150pts
GKSS: Rbacks, Psybolt Ammo - 150pts
HEAVY SUPPORT:
Dreadnought, 2X TL Autocannon - 135
Dreadnought, 2X TL Autocannon - 135
Dreadknight, Heavy Incinerator, Teleporter - 235.
Total: 1996
All told we've got 6X AV11 hulls running around, 2X AV12 Dreadnought hulls, and a giant MC jumping around. We've got 8 S8 shots, 8 S7 Rending shots with an additional 8-16 S7 Rending shots from the dismounted Purifiers, and 12 S6 shots for everything else.
How does/would this list play? One way (and the way I envision it) is that you have Crowe and Libby hiding behind the Rback wall as it advances up-field, the Libby constantly casting Shrouding to give them a stronger cover save and Crowe running there really as a supporting assault unit if/when the Purifiers disembark.
Well readers, I hope my rationale and logic proved fairly easy to understand and follow and I hope I presented to you (yet) another take on the Crowe / Purifier list. Feedback and commentary more than welcome as I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on thee Crowe lists.
Kirby 118p · 731 weeks ago
Then we look at using MSU Purifiers overall. Is it really worth it compared to MSU GKSS? You get an extra psycannon and some more combat potential though it's not really going to deter your opponent much regardless. A couple smaller squads I can see as you take advantage of their double cannon at smaller sizes but are we really gaining anything in using Crowe + Purifiers over GKSS as our whole Troops this way? Personally I don't think so. It's obviously not bad but I don't think it's optimal.
And then the lone DK. Being able to move 12" is nice but with only one you're not going to be able to aggressively run into your opponent, it's just too easy to target. It sticks out as a lone combat unit in a shooting army based around midfield. If you're looking for some counter-punch ability maybe upgrade the Purifier squad numbers or add some Venerable Dreadnoughts, Paladins, GKT, etc. or run cheap DK (i.e. bare bones) and turn the Psyfledreads into VenPsyfles.
bhsman · 731 weeks ago
Auretious Taak · 731 weeks ago
Lyracian 59p · 731 weeks ago
My thoughts on having the HQ running around on their own is to buy a 67 points tax to get a Chimira. Dump the henchmen and steal the ride. If able you probably want to stick Crowe in a Razorback and the marines in the Chimira. With the strange ruling that the Libby can get in the Chimira is sorts out the issue with Terminator armour too.
Kirby 118p · 731 weeks ago
Lyracian 59p · 730 weeks ago
Roland Durendal · 731 weeks ago
Another thing we talked about is dropping the Dreadknight. Personally, I like it just because a giant MC jumping around burning and smashing things is awesome....and because it's one of those threats that your opponent needs to deal with sooner rather then later, which in turn means less attention directed at your Psyflemen and Rhinos/Rbacks. If we did drop him (and dropped the Asscan Rbacks to Rhinos), I'd use the saved points to boost the 2 Rhino Purifier Squads to 7 guys and then try to buy a tiny Termie/Paladin squad for the Libby to run/Deep Strike/hang out with
Thus Kirb and my discussion looked at tweaking this a bit with this as one possible solution:
Drop DK - 235pts saved
Downgrade Asscan Rbacks to Rhinos - 90pts saved
Total: 325
Add 2X dudes to both Rhino Purifier Squads - 96
Add 4X Paladins and whatever upgrades you can get for 9pts - 229
Total: 325
You have two larger and slightly more survivable forward moving Purifier squads now (still supported by 4 HB Rbacks, two of which have supporting Purifier Squads) and a small assault support unit and Libby shield in the form of the Paladins. They can either run with the Libby or Deep Strike with him. Depends entirely on your opponent/mission/terrain/etc.
As I said, this list is just another take on the Crowe/Purifier theme which tries to go for a more MSU feel
Kirby 118p · 730 weeks ago
spaguatyrine · 731 weeks ago
Jason · 731 weeks ago
tzeentchling 76p · 731 weeks ago
Zjoekov 74p · 731 weeks ago
Daniel · 731 weeks ago
The +2 would probably work much better with conversionbeamer inq's/techmarines included in scoring rhinos chucking some potent fire downrange (dropping the dreadknight will get you the points easily) or Coteaz heavyweapon bunkers , Grand Strategy applied to Psyfledreads/venpsyfledreads (these last two in different lists though).
Roland Durendal · 731 weeks ago
Granted 36" isn't that great but it provides a decent enough stand off distance.
Archy · 730 weeks ago
6x5 Purifiers w/2 Psycannon in Bolterbacks w/Psybolt + Crowe = 1290
I really think those 330pts could be better spent than slightly better combat potential, 6 psycannons and Captain Spectacular. It's a bit more detrimental over the course of a whole list. For example, if I took stelek's list (which I'm in love with just now).
2xOX Inquisitor w/Conversion Beamer
5 Servo Skulls between them
2x5 Warriors, 3 MM servitors, Bolterback w/Bolts
6x5 GKSS w/ Cannon + Bolterback w/ Bolts
2x5 Interceptors w/Cannon
3x Psyfleman
2k
Or, with purifiers:
Crowe
OX Inquisitor w/Conversion Beamer
5 Warriors, 3 MM servitors + Rhino
Vindicare
6x5 Purifiers w/2 Cannons + Bolterback w/Bolts
3 Psyfledreads
2k
While it's not really a big difference, it does certainly show, and you're only gaining 4 cannons.
spaguatyrine · 730 weeks ago
Kirby 118p · 730 weeks ago
artemi7 78p · 730 weeks ago