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"Pink isn't a color. It's a lifestyle." - Chumbalaya
"...generalship should be informing list building." - Sir Biscuit
"I buy models with my excess money" - Valkyrie whilst a waitress leans over him

Thursday, July 5, 2012

Kirby vs Archnomad - List Selection in WM/H

Hi everybody. Kirby and I are going to have a game of WM/H on Vassal in the near future, and I'm using this as an example to talk about list selection in steamroller format games for WM/H. So, without wasting any more time let's get a look in at these army lists. They're 35pts, Menoth for Kirby and Legion for me. 

So, I'm running these two beauties:

pVayl +6
Typhon 12
Scythean 9
Seraph 8
Shredder 2
3 Raptors 6
Forsaken 2
Forsaken 2

eVayl +6 (Tier 4)
Ravagore 9
Angelius 8
Angelius 8
Scythean 8
Harrier 2
Max Pot 3
Shepherd 1
Shepherd 1
Spell Martyr 1

That pVayl list has been serving me very well at 50pts lately (I add a Ravagore and the Blackfrost Shard), and, whilst I haven't played either of these lists at 35pts before it's got the same essentials and I imagine it will be fine. My pVayl list is the one I'm most comfortable with, as she's my most practiced and probably favourite Legion warlock. eVayl is my 2nd most practiced though, and, unsurprisingly, second favourite (out of the like 11 games I've had with Legion, but anyway). pVayl looks to hit (stupidly) hard  and accurately first, and then set up a piece trade that's already in her favour, but she doesn't like excessive shooting or enemies that can control or deny her positioning. eVayl on the other hand is a lot more passive. Or possibly passive aggressive. She looks to set up position favourably before the enemy (faster beasts turn 1 and +1 to your roll help with this) and then continually hit and run and grind the enemy down, with the ever present threat of a really potent assassination. In addition to this, pVayl is really strong against Hordes, and quite likes scenarios that are easy to clear pieces off of (with small control points) or scenarios that are hard to score (so she can play hide and go seek). eVayl looooves radial deployment because she can play super safe all game and she's a fan of scenarios with big zones / areas to control because it gives her lots of leeway to run away without giving up control points.

So, with all that said, I randomly rolled scenario and got Radial - Command and Control (if you want to question that Kirby, ask Jamie Perkins, who happened to be in the Vassal lobby when I rolled it ^^).

So, lets see Kirby's lists. I basically know that I'm playing eVayl at this point anyway (because she loves big zones, she loves radial, and pVayl hates this scenario because she has to sit back, but I can talk about what I'm worried about in each matchup).

eFeora (+6)
 - Redeemer (6)
 - Reckoner (8)
 - Templar (8)
Full TFG + UA (8)
Daughters (5)
Choir (2)
Covenant (2)
Vassal (2)

pSevvy (+6)
- Blessing of Vengeance (7)
- Reckoner (8)
Avatar (11)
Choir (2)
Full Errants + UA (10)
Vassal (2)
                                                    Wracks (1)

Ok, so, two fairly standard Menoth lists here. We'll start with eFeora. I can tell straight away that that redeemer will probably be bonded, and dropping fire all over my stuff. Which is annoying but it's fairly standard eFeora and I'll just have to deal with it. I'm not too worried about the infantry with either of my casters, because Chiller + Typhon + Incite deals with pretty much everything short of a Cryx Horde, and eVayl has shooting and the combo of Icy Grip/Overtake at her disposal. The two heavies are harsh but definitely not unmanageable for my 4. Really quite standard eFeora, the only thing is it does pretty much entirely remove my ability to Assassinate in this matchup (eFeora is immune to my shooting and pSevvy is immune to my spells, although he's fragile enough I probably wont need the spells if he's ever in the open).

The pSevvy list is similar (ugh). I hate Menoth, I just don't like how often they tell my I can't do things. But anyway, BoV is standard with pSevvy, the Reckoner is a reckoner, can't really comment, it'd be like kirby commenting on the fact I had a Scythean. The Avatar with Defender's Ward can suck a bag of ***** though. I can't really engage it head on and I certainly can't let it get to one of my heavies without me being able to kill it in return. The angels are almost certainly going to have to put in a shift against this guy. Hopefully I'll be able to Purify off Defender's Ward and just one round it. And there are errants in there too, who I'd probably rather deal with with pVayl than eVayl, but at least eVayl has purification and some shooting to whittle them down. Due to the expensive avatar + full errant unit there's not as much in this list.

If I'm entirely honest, I'm probably more afraid of pSevvy in this matchup, and due to the scenario I feel he's "probably" a stronger choice (what with this scenario forcing your caster back), especially considering how much eFeora dislikes Purification. But I'll let Kirby decide that.


Ok, so, we had the game. Here's my report:

The board:
The board.
So after deployment I failed to seize ^^.

Avatar gets 4. 1 To the Reckoner and 1 to BoV. Errants run. Sevvy goes, casts Eye of Menoth and Defender's Ward on the errants.  Choir advance and cast passage. BoV runs. Avatar runs. Reckoner runs. Vassal runs.

eVayl's pot handlers die mysteriously, a Shredder spawns and then legion takes some potshots and kills some errants. Refuge and Occultation go up on the angels, and the Scythean gets Admonition. Stuff advances.

Ok, so this was a fairly standard first turn for each of us. I personally expected Defender's Ward on the Avatar because the shooting that would be going at the errants is easily boostable by me, but whatever, I guess the Avatar has Passage for now. I made a Shredder to throw Tenacity out with and put my upkeeps up in fairly standard places.

After we had both had turn 1. 
Here we agreed that the forest was probably a bit stupid, so it got moved to a little bit less of an offensive position. Sevvy upkeeps both, Avatar gets 2. Errants run to jam. Choir cast passage. Reckoner assaults my Scythean and does 5 damage. Avatar casts Gaze of Menoth and runs, keeping a toe in the zone. BoV runs over to threaten my support next turn with ashes to ashes / immolation. Vassal advances over to the Avatar, and gives the Reckoner Enliven. Severius casts Vision on the Reckoner and calls turn.

Certain factions have a hell of a time dealing with terrain, and I always hate games where I feel I lost to the crappy map. Another fairly standard turn here by Kirby, just establishing dominance in the zone. 
There's Menoth in my grill.
Angelius charges in and kills a pair of errants, then refuges in front of the reckoner. My spell martyr runs. Angel gets admonition. Ravagore advances and kills the errant banner and sets the Vassal on fire and reduces it to 2 boxes. My shredder activates, casts Tenacity on an angel and kills an errants. My angel charges the reckoner and rolls 1,1,2 to hit. ballocks. Buys on the errant officer to get refuge to trigger. Ballocks. That was important. Otherwise it's just damage control. I can't finagle away with Refuge because of Gaze of Menoth, and I didn't half kill the Reckoner, as was my intention. My only hope now is that I have something left at the end of the turn that can kill the Avatar.

I don't have a clue what I was thinking here. My initial plan was to get the angel with refuge to charge in, kill some errants and then fly b2b with the Reckoner, so that when Angel #2 came in he wouldn't be stopped by Gaze of Menoth. Thing is I can't eyeball distance on vassal for shit, and as you can see I'm about an inch out. Then, in addition the that the Angel's attack on the Redeemer rolled 1,1,2 to hit (I missed a lot of attacks I needed 6s or less for this game) and I was basically stuck. The correct play after I didn't get in b2b with the Reckoner would probably have been to chill, hang back, and make him start a piece trade. He only had 2 heavies to my 4, with spell support that would have been a much smarter play. But being just out put me on tilt. 
Archnomad throws away his angels.
pSevvy gives 3 to the Reckoner, the Avatar rolls 3, and he upkeeps Eye of Menoth. BoV gets one. Avatar walks up to my Angel and kills it. I don't reave. Reckoner kills my other angel, errants kill the harrier. Scythean took an Ashes to Ashes and it didn't kill a shepherd. The avatar got enlivened. (forgot a photo here, sorry)

Paying for my stupidity here. Basically gave Kirby both Angels for free. Still, I'm annoyed one rolled 1,1,2 to hit, seeing as he would have been on boosted dice +4, which could basically have half healthed the Reckoner, which would have made my late game much easier. 

eVayl didn't have anything to upkeep. A mix of shredders and pot killed the errants. eVayl went and made a node of the shredder, and put Refuge on the Scythean, Occultation on herself, Admo on the Ravagore. The ravagore walked up and headbutted the avatar, and then boosted a bought attack on him. The scythean went in, almost boxed it and then I learned that BoV had a repulsor shield. I got pushed away, leaving the avatar on 1 box. Ballocks, again. That basically just cost me the game. Shepherd goes for a last ditch and charges the KD'd avatar, needing 11s to kill it, and I roll 10. Bah.

Still on tilt here, forgetting rules and such, in an important situation like this can easily cost games. As this did, seeing as my Scythean "would" have killed the Avatar and would also have taken a fairly serious chunk out of the BoV had I remembered the rule and positioned accordingly (I could have ran the Shepherd/positioned the ravagore so that I couldn't be pushed back at all and could have wailed on both jacks till they die). Two game throwing moves, two turns in a row. 
"Whaddya mean, Repulsor shield?"
PSevvy gives 3 to BoV and the Reckoner. Upkeeping EoM. Choir sung battle. Avatar went and mauled the ravagore, after casting Gaze. BoM killed both my shredders and the shepherd. The reckoner got admonitioned away from by the ravagore, and then assault shotted anyway and took the ravagore to 8 boxes. Then an Ancillary attack at dice +3 took the ravagore to 1 box, and he's on fire.

Once more Kirby making me pay for stupid mistakes, he's basically on clean up here with those 2 jacks. 

My poor Ravagore.
This is the beginning of the end. Things got a lil hectic here and I forgot to take some pictures. :P I'm sure you can see where the game is going but I think I did a damn fine job clawing it back.

Fire runs out. eVayl goes and heals stuff, the ravagore kills the avatar. The pot spawns a shredder which dents the BoV. The scythean whiffs tremendously (crappy to hits and crap damage rolls) and does absolutely nothing, running away with refuge.

Seriously, looking back, I feel that my dice were probably a little under average this game, but not to the extent that it makes up for my misplay with the Angels or forgetting Repulsor Shield on the BoV. I also feel that rather than Refuge the Scythean here I should have Admonitioned, but I had basically lost hope here anyway. 

The reckoner kills the Scythean, and then I move in the ravagore to counter and kill the reckoner, and die to defensive strike on BoV. Can you tell I don't play against Menoth very much? So, that was basically the end for me. However, I managed to claw my way back (almost) by killing the BoV and almost all the choir with a never ending horde of shredders (protip: Make sure stuff dies near the pot). It came down to last turn I needed to kill a shredder and a choir with an obliteration to get 3 corpses in the pot to spawn a shredder who could go rabid and charge Sevvy (hitting on 9s, killing on 6,6,6), but I left one choir boy alive which pSevvy fired an Ashes to Ashes at, and killed eVayl.

Yeah, Kirby totally deserved the win, especially considering I played like it was my 1st ever game with Legion where charging 2 Angels into the middle of a Menoth army makes sense in my head. I feel I did really well to claw it back as much as I did, but considering I was basically playing 2 Angels down the whole game I didn't really see a way for Kirby to lose if he played it out correctly after that. 
The board towards the end of the game, not much left for either player.

The board at the end of the game.
So, in summary, I need to practice against Menoth. My group has no menoth players and they're very uncommon locally. Forgetting the repulsor shield and also defensive strike (twice! >.<) literally cost me the game here. Well, throwing away my two angels probably did (I could totally have waited a turn, no reason I couldn't, and just positioned) but that's what lost me my attempt at clawing myself back into the game.

Practice against Menoth needed, and a very good game, considering the only models left on the board when the final damage dice went down were pSevvy and eVayl.

Thoughts Kirby? You should post an opinion in this as well. :P  

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