Well I'm getting tired of Wisdom of silence over on Warseer saying Mech Orks are good and that they threaten Tau by being able to get into your lines quickly. Ignoring the massive defensive bonus Tau get with Piranhas and Kroot I'm starting on the Ork army early for my Armies of 5th articles. I won't revisit them until I've completed the Tau articles though.
First off, Orks are bad in 5th. Most of the internet thinks otherwise because apparently 100+ bodies is "tough." Bullshit. The series of articles I will write will show you why. Keep in mind everything we know about 5th and it should be pretty clear.
So we'll take a look at Trukks first and why they are a terrible basis to build a mech army around (which means Orks have to somehow go for an army build outside Mech to be effective...). Here's what Wisdom of silence has to say on the matter:
Advantages of a trukk:
Speed: threatens assault out to almost 21"
Squishy: less dangerous to occupants than normal transports (important because orks have bad saves) and may even get you closer when it's destroyed
Cheap: trukk+boyz+nob/pk/bosspole/4+ is less expensive than a naked tactical squad. leaves plenty of room in your list for goodies
Ya that's a nice assault range. What does 11 Orks and a PK Nob threaten? IG, Tau, Tac squads, etc. Basically everything that sucks in combat and are shooty anyways. Orks need weight of numbers to be effective and even then they aren't great. Ask an Ork player how it is to player an SW army? Ya the GHs crap all over your uber assaulty Orks and that's without upgrades. Next.
So let's really look at the Trukk.
1) doesn't benefit from 5th, it's open-topped and has low armor so it's just as easy to kill as a tank in 4th
2) doesn't leave cover for the poor Orks who need it and can send your Orks further away from your opponent
3) as previously mentioned has crap capacity
4) isn't a tank. This is huge. You cannot tank shock. Anything can stop this bugger from moving. This makes it a lot easier to force those Orks to assault what you want which is not the point of a fast moving, open-topped transport
5) don't create their own cover (they aren't getting SMF or have smoke launchers, this means terrain every game, every time)
6) have a really low profile so while it's easier to get cover for them, the rest of the Ork army doesn't (compare to Rhinos/Chimeras)
So if it survives and or puts the Orks in a good position you then have a small amount of Orks attacking a largely untouched army which can easily take the charge, lose some sac units and then shoot the rest of the Orks. Trukks are fail. Mech is good in 5th because of the vehicle damage chart. Tranporsts survive the crossing of midfield and if they don't they help the rest of the army with cover of wrecks. Some armies have transports which also sport guns that work (i.e. Serpents, Immolators, Razorbacks, Chimeras, etc.) and the Trukk has no access to this. Even a Rhino can get an HK missile.
So overall the Trukk sucks. It subtracts from the Ork strengths of numbers and gives them more weaknesses for the tiny potential to get across the board quicker. This means Orks have to rely on other means to effectively play in 5th which I'll cover in my next Orky article.
Kirb your enthusiasm!
"...generalship should be informing list building." - Sir Biscuit
Monday, February 15, 2010
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61 pinkments:
Trukks can take an upgrade that lets them tank shock, smart guy
Yay for anon posts. How often do you see that upgrade? Making a Trukk cost more than a Rhino to make it be able to tank shock isn't smart, especially since that is the least of its worries. The Trukk should be paying half of what it does but it still doesn't compensate for it's fail ramshackle rule.
Even a hard case upgrade only allows it to get across the field reliably but then you still have every other problem.
I take Rams on my Trukks :P The added benefits of tank shocking are well worth it, but they usually never make it across the field.
Trukk mobs are shitty, always have been, but people are still under the mindset that if you can kill a Tac squad in the open on foot you're awesome. Hell, the mob can barely manage that (12 Tac-attacks, 6 hits, 3 wounds, 3 kills; 32 Ork swings, 16 hits, 8 wounds, 3 dead, 4 PK, 2 hits, 2 dead). Add in combat tactics or just GH or the fact that everything should be mounted and Orks have difficulties with armor and they truly suck shit.
Battlewagons are the only way to make mech Orks work, and even then they're so damn fragile.
I take Rams on my trukks because its the largest mobility gain for 5 points you'll see.
Anyways have you played against good mech orks? Just out of curiosity?
There is no good mech Ork army, everything is open-topped (or has its role totally reversed) and your selection of vehicles is either Battlewagons or shit. Battlewagons are nifty, until you realize they are pretty much open-topped AV12 considering how narrow the model is and how easy it is to get side shots. Once the only defense of AV13 goes, you're screwed.
Best you can do is field lots of BWagons backed by Lootas to nail light armor, pray you can hurt heavy armor, and bring along Buggies to block movement/annoy/add extra rokkits.
Man, I guess a lot of you haven't played against good mech orks then :p
Trukks have a purpose, but they certainly aren't the centerpoint of an army. They're a fire magnet, something you can rush over and camp an objective...not something you send one at a time at the opponent's gunline.
Honestly if you're listing open topped as a major detriment to a mech ork list I've got a suspicion that you don't understand how it works. Which is a bit surprising, its quite possibly the most autopilot list there is. Yes it is a weakness but without it you wouldn't see charges from 22" away without the Waaagh.
Also rokkits are crap (except maybe on Kans, I haven't gotten around to trying that out...the BS 3 helps a lot) and if you're taking them in mass in an ork army you are a bad player.
Chumbalaya is right, there is no good mech Ork. Mech Orks is medicore at best. Trukks are a fire magnet that die in T1 from duality units you'd rather be shooting at infantry (i.e. Dakka preds) and if they really deliver their load, boohoo. Those scary Orks scare crap which already fails in combat already.
Lol last time I went up against Mech Orks, all the trukks and his anti-armour were dead by turn 2, and his orks quickly submitted to my wolves as they were blasted and charged into oblivion. All I lost was a squad of Grey Hunters and my Wolf Lord, and that was after they raped two squads of boys and a trukk after drop podding in.
Orks hate lightning, especially when it is living :D
Competitive Ork Mech? How long will it be before that is even remotely possible?
Trukks are too fragile to warrant dedicated AT fire, general anti infantry stuff (S6 and below) can see them off easily. The mobs inside are very underwhelming too, so even if they get lucky they aren't doing much.
Open-topped is crucial to the army's function while simultaneously being one of its biggest weaknesses, unfortunately the latter ends up having a much larger effect. +1 to all damage means that glancing hits can destroy BW (remember side AV12, so S6) and pens (melta in particular) will pop them half the time or better. Battlewagons need to get close, close as in melta range. They die. Then you've got 20 Orks on foot cramped into a small space just begging for a BBQ.
The whole point of a mech Ork army is to zoom into combat ASAP, but the problem arises that the vehicles are too fragile and the units inside are very soft. Combine that with an overall lack of anti-vehicles firepower and a mech list can run circles around you, popping BWagons and keeping out of assault range (or at least holding you up with bubblewrap).
Rokkits go on Buggies or Koptaz for the twin-linking and low cost. It's not great, but there isn't much better you can do.
Maybe if Deffrollas were clarified as being able to hurt Vehicles...maybe then you'd see armies of 6-8 wagons. Still...
This is the most idiotic tripe I've ever seen.
Who plays rams? Everyone with a brain.
Mech Orks are great. Tau can certainly put up a fight, but it's a tough match-up for them.
Mech Eldar do much better, but it's just foolish to say that Mech Orks are bad.
Hi its anon numbers 2 and 3. I decided to switch to names as to prevent a bit of confusion.
I think you're failing to take into consideration obscured, which is one of the easiest effects for mech orks to get (a plain KFF Big Mek is only 85 points and it does wonders for survivability).
Consider the following
A deathrain team has an 84% chance of positive effect (in this case immobolize, destroy, explodes or stunned, not counting the possibility of multiple weapon destroyeds rolling into an immobolized) against a naked trukk and only a 56% chance against an obscured trukk.
Two twin-linked BS 3 railguns against a battlewagon have a 50% chance of getting the desired effect without a save, 27% chance otherwise.
The reason mech orks can be scary is similar to the reason that mech eldar are, oddly enough. Give a vehicle a permanent 4+ cover save and its brutal.
(Yes I do realize pathfinders is a counter but the second I face foot troops using heavy weapons as mech orks is the second I've already won)
Anon you're arguing for Mech Orks so you are certainly right in the tripe sense.
@Shavnir; for other armies it's not that hard to get cover for most of your tanks and don't need to take an 85pt HQ to give them cover. Imperial armies bring along smoke and can easily get 3+ cover saves with trains and popping a single smoke or simply using cover. Tau pay 5 pts for 4+ cover and with their defensive screens it takes time to get within 12". DE and Eldar use their speed to gain cover advantages and can also use each other. Orks can't. Ork Trukks/buggies can give each other cover yes and because of their tiny chasis even things like rubble can give them cover but your most important tank, the BW which actually holds a substantial number of Orks, isn't going to get cover from them which means you rely on a Big Mek or the playing table. What happens if that Mek’s BW is blown up and he dies? Or it’s blown up and he gets bogged down, etc? Your army relies on the table for cover which isn’t good. Trukks/Buggies are fast enough to get to cover (like Eldar and DE) but the rest of your army? Again the BW get nothing and wind up dead.
Also Broadsides aren't going to shoot BWs. I'm going to stop their movement with my Piranhas and take out lighter targets that have a much better chance of being destroyed and deal with the BWs later.
And how do Pathfinders (or any heavy weapons on foot? I'd love to see a Hybrid guard drop down on you or an Immo spam with allied IG platoons and see you say "well I'll win cause I'm Mech orks"; a foot army sure but not in a good list) make it an auto win for Orks? Your only option is to shoot them otherwise you're not getting to them until Turn 3 at the earliest unless the Kroot breakx2 (whilst in an IG army they are the bubblewrap and in an Immo spam they are simply an objective sitter, ignore the 10 immolators if you wish) and run really far and the tau army can't shoot you down (unlikely). Otherwise you have to devote your Lootas to reliably kill them which means the HHeads are unlikely to be shaken/stunned which means more dead Orks. Or you can shoot the HHeads and I can improve a units worth of shooting (personally shoot the PF, I'd like my HHeads still shooting).
Simply put Mech Orks have nothing going for them. Their cheap, spammable transport isn’t good, it sends tiny squads of Orks in random directions and isn’t hard to destroy and costs more than a Rhino to punch through an infantry line. Their better transport in the BW isn’t as spammable, has a narrow facing and isn’t fast enough to threaten opposing armies quick enough and relies on a model to get a cover save. Their anti-tank also isn’t fantastic which means they rely on Lootas, a bit of luck and assault to crack open transports. Lootas are good but can’t do everything. This hands the advantage even more firmly into the opponent’s camp as they get to dictate where to get out and fight as they are generally in their transports whilst yours have been blown up. What Orks need is a beast type assault unit that doesn't cost half your army (i.e. Fiends or Thunderwolves). These are the best assault units of the day particularly if you can make an army around the concept and allows an army to get in your face quickly (look at what Raveners and Thunderwolves do for their codex).
To address your points in a pseudo random order...
I'm not quite sure what you mean about training. I don't have a warseer account or anything but do you mean lining it up so the facing you're looking at is completely obscured by another vehicle? In most cases its going to be some real interesting geometry to pull that off for two vehicles affecting each other. Do you have a diagram of it? It sounds quite interesting.
Unfortunately trukks and buggies can't fly, so they can't get cover from moving really fast. Yea :(
The whole point of the big mek (and the reinforced rams tbh) is to try and help me ignore the table as much as possible. That's mostly because I'm rather weak when it comes to initial setups regarding line of sight taking first turn shots but I've found the setup works quite well. There's very few things that make me play a board full of terrain and a bare one differently...until my stuff is out of its transports. But that's more about my personal failings as opposed to a failing of the army list.
A trukk is roughly 80% of the length and about the same width as a battlewagon. While I rarely need it its not that terribly difficult to get cover to my wagon from a trukk. I do agree on the footprint of the wagons...I sometimes envy the people with the oldschool shoebox sized battlewagons. The area covered by their KFFs is huge.
As for your last point, I'm honestly intrigued. What metagame do you come from? I don't mean this as an insult, I've played in two or three different parts of the US and what's good and bad varies greatly depending on where you're at (heck I've seen it change greatly just an hour or two drive away). The tactics you're mentioning makes me wish I didn't scare away the local Tau players (they played gunline footslogging...I wish they'd gone heavy mech and made it an interesting match like you're discussing). Anyways I'm curious as to what metagame you're from because I hardly see raveners (given what's being played a lot here) as worthwhile (my second army is nids) while at the same time writing off nobs. Yes, they are expensive. But throw them in a battlewagon and they gain range and a bit of durability over bikers. A tad cheaper too given the number of bodies you can amass. Apologies if you thought I fielded nothing but boyz but with the warboss being both an incredible combat HQ and a way to field one of the nastiest melee squads in the game I find myself taking at least one nob squad in every list. It does cripple me a bit in single HQ games but they're pretty rare anyways.
I've used lootas before to pad points in my list and I've experimented with a lot of different builds but I'm not quite 100% happy with any of them. Maybe you're correct, maybe its just a bad list and I'm against a bunch of really bad players. But I think you're overlooking a lot of things in your analysis.
Another fanboi of Stelek who doesnt know how Mech Ork works.
Crap article...
Take your Tau and prove my orks wrong on Vassal :-).
Problem is Shav, you can't ignore Piranhas who do most of the work movement blocking you before you hit the Tau front lines.
Assuming Cover Saves vs. Tau? Tau Markerlights target the KFF wagon/transport and all a sudden your KFF range is SEVERELY reduced...fun times?
Tell us how Mech Orks work differently than trying to keep in a huge a wad as possible and trying to stay in KFF range while trying to overwhelm the enemy all at once?
'Cuz that's EXACTLY what the Mech Ork players I come across on Vassal always do.
Explain guys please, the more you guys claim, the more you guys should back up your words.
BTW, I wasn't even Tau and I put up a fight to a Draw with the Jump Packs and Bikes list Kirby likes to call the Rodeo.
Wanna know how?
I targetted the hammer Wagon with Ghazghkull.
I bubblewrapped the Jump Packs.
Used the Bikes to absorb charges, Termies mass multi-charged in counter and crunched all the Orks (2+/4+ FNP <3) and when Ghazgkull came in to kill the Terminators, they already killed the rest of the Troops save them.
Meanwhile Koptas and Snikrot did hardly anything on the other side of the board (Where the other half of my assault marines were, scoring 2 objectives he couldn't focus on because the main line was too much of a hellhole already. ;) He admitted this btw, I'm not assuming things.
He was shocked I allowed him to charge the Bikes and asked me why after the game.
"Well, it's a Objective game, they're not important beyond that, and if they live through the Boyz the first round, only the PK's have a realistic chance to dent them anymore from there on, so I took my chances holding the line for the Termie counter charge."
And that panned out perfectly?
After the first 2 turns, the Ork army was fragmented and easier to handle and easier for me to set my priorities (Which are the Objectives in Seize Ground.) and figure out if I really NEED to deal with Ghazgkull's "Death Mob"...Since he used Waaagh! to get Ghazghkull to charge the Termies for revenge, this meant all I had to do was use my superior mobility to stay out of charge range of 'em, and bounce/turbo away to safer havens.
So that's how that game pann'd out, for perspective.
On VASSAL btw. ;)
Smurfy I replied out to Shav ages ago.
@Anon; sure I'll look for an Anon and rofl Vassal Tau stomp again, or I could paint my Tyranids for my tournament... I've beaten Orks many a time with Tau and don't need to fan my ego. If you want to game, game don't pull all this nerdrage, internet drama crap on it. As Smurfy said, show us how Orks are actually good and we might listen.
Kirby. Would you kindly enlighten us which 5th Edition tournaments you have been to and your ranking? Not the local ones but some Grand One where we can track the records :-). Oh, and what's your Vassal nick? I may d/l Vassal just to ridicule you, that is if you got balls to tell us your nick.
Btw, I m not the Anon above. Just a random passerby who LOLed at your article and thinks you haven't play against competitive orks.
"I've beaten Orks many a time with Tau and don't need to fan my ego."
I have beaten my 7 year old brother's 1750 army using 1000 points worth of army, many times. Your victory against scrubs don't impress me, not at all.
I like the trolling guys, keep up the trolling with no tactics and no explanations to back yourselves up. True trollin' way, gaiz.
Man, it must be a hard life not being able to explain yourselves.
Hilarious stuff here, Anons. Man up and tell us how Mech Orks play if this is all wrong.
o.O, Looks like Kirby don't even have the guts to back up his words on Vassal.
Pathetic.
WTF... why can't the Anons pick a screen name so we can atleast work out who is who.
And the following web address will send you to Bald & Screaming where Danny Internets provides a short insight into 5th Edition Orks. It also includes several links to other sources that explain WHY Orks are a sub-par codex in 5th Edition.
http://www.baldandscreaming.com/commentary/greenskins-versus-meta-game-are-orks-competitive/
Lots of love,
Messanger
Been on VASSAL here just idling...Not many people on.
Messenger of Dumb - And tournament results shows otherwise, Tau or Orks.
If Kirby is so sure of his tactics and views, then prove us wrong on Vassal.
But apparently, he is too scared to even reply with his Vassal nick, let alone have any tournament credentials to back him up.
Talk about winning, LOL.
Oh, the irony is lost on you anon.
Oh welcome Chumbalaya, I ve seen you noobing around Vassal. o.O
I was debating making a post about this but said screw it, why draw attention.
We've discussed tournament results before, show us a tournament with good players, good rules (no comp & crap missions) and a bat rep for each game so we can analyse the ups and downs. Since that is never unlikely to happen we get to look at the theory and personal experience. You say Orks are good, fine tell us why and stop trolling all 3 or 4 Anons.
You want to play me on Vassal? Never said I wouldn't, just not until my Tyranids are done because I have a tournament going to nor do I need to win to fan my ego, unlike you do. You can ask a lot of people on here, other forums and Vassal who have seen me play or played against me. Some of them are crap, some of them are good and notice how I've never said I'm the best around either but I have said there are certain 'right and wrongs' in 40k. Rebute those whilst you wait for me to paint so you can stroke your ego.
I'll give you one guess what my Vassal nick is. And sorry it took me a whole 6 hours to reply, I have a job shockingly.
Cease trolling, I will delete troll posts. Either say something constructive or go emo rage on YTTH.
Calling someone out for being 'scared' to give their Vassal nickname when you are posting Anonymously? Yeah...it's HIM that sucks, huh.
lol
o.O Cool, I ll give you time to paint and calm your nerves. Until you think you ve got guts to prove your words on Vassal, post your nick here.
Oh dumb Elessar, I don't even need to waste my time logging in, simply because you noobs have no guts to even have a game. I offer you scrubs a game, if you think you have what it takes to back up your opinions, prove it :-).
Now I know why the traffic here is so pathetic. Bunch of articles written by empty vessels :-)
Fancy that Anon, you keep visiting here though, thank's for up'ing our numbers that much more.
Amazing you haven't shared how our tactics are "wrong" and you didn't even show up on VASSAL yesterday, I was there. (I keep it on the computer as I do stuff I need to, people would tell me if someone were looking for Kirby because they know I work here with him.
All talk and no show sir.
So much for being "cowardly" and having a life?
Oh troll, if Kirby is gut enough to post his nick and arrange a time for a game, I be in Vassal for sure.
So why not you learn to think before you post, so that you look less like a fool? :-)
And I don't mind upping your pathetic numbers :-). I take it as a consolation gift for you scrubs.
you realize kirbys name on vassal is most likely kirby? shocking i know
LOL, Kirby now I know what you mean by competitive.
Chumbalaya lost on Vassal, blamed it on luck, and got all vulgar.
o.O No wonder you scrubs don't like tournaments.
Chumby get vulgar? Why that's like cherry in pies.
It's insane!
@ annoying anon that is most likely a tween who has just discovered the internet and the word scrub - surely you could of come up with something better than Messanger of Dumb. There are more insulting terms that start with D... go visit Dick Move to get an idea on how to properly mock people on the Interwebz.
And while your off looking at other blogs go visit YTTH and read Stelek's battle reports for 'Ard Boyz. In one of his matches he played against Orks with his Tau.... and won.
Messanger
Nah, he's smart enought to use a Proxy so I think he's just TRULY a no-life troll.
Yeah, donno many legit guys who have to act behind a proxy to make a point.
It's funny how scrubs pick and select things that are only pleasing to their ears o.O.
DashofPepper won tournaments with his mechanized orks as well.
Telling me "Stelek won with his Tau against some random orks" means shit to me.
Btw SMurfy, you are just another noob who use your ass to think. If you got what it takes, then prove it on Vassal. Oh, but please don't be like Chum, whining about bad luck and be vugar when you lose :-)
Obvious troll is obvious, but maybe this'll make FNIF.
You've read Dash's reports, have you? Then you understand the horrendously shitty quality of his opponents he faced. Oh right, you are another Orkstrich with his head in the sand. Anything that support your assertions is automatically right regardless of context. Dipshit.
If you want to play on Vassal, man up then. E-stalking is weak shit. Maybe you'll luck out and have 6 TL lascannons, 6 TL autocannons, 9 regular autocannons and 4 multi-lasers fail to damage 2 wave serpents too.
Me, vulgar? Never gonna fucking happen, dicksniffer.
Yeah shitty quality of his opponents, just like how I feel you are a shitty opponent too, and all your shitty friends :-).
If I win, it was because I was good. If I lose, if was either because the tournaments sucks, the dice sucks, or my opponent cheats.
That was easy, wasnt it? o.O.
Not at all cockbag. Dice are always a factor in one-off games. I've had plenty of wins come from my opponent's luck taking a long trip to shit town USA and vice versa. That's why I don't derive much meaning from just 1 game. If I keep using that list and it keeps failing me, then I'll have a better idea of where I stand with it. That just applies for everything.
I've been outplayed and I've learned from it and improved. Good tournaments are hard to come by in the US, particularly my area. All this soft scoring bullshit and lolhammer mission formats are just fucktarded. That's why I'm going to Nova.
Last night, my dice just went to shit. It happens, it's happened before, and there isn't much I can do about it except try and learn something. To be perfectly honest, I didn't learn much beyond "bad dice rolls can fuck you over" and I wasn't much enjoying myself because of it. I talked it over with my opponent, let him know what was up and that was it. No drama, no whining, just simple conversation.
Now, do you have anything useful to add here or just more trolling?
I don't get why being vulgar is such an issue for a troll.
Smart Elessar can't figure it out. Oh well.
Also, it is pronounced 'wessels' - like you are pronounced 'Weasel' (or, so I dub thee.)
Weasel, if I had time to play something that wasn't even proper 40k, you'd be fairly high on the list. Sadly for your ego, I am more interested in real life right now. Feel free to email me contact details, and as soon as I get bored of sunshine and the company of real people, I'll give you a shout. Hell, fly to Northern Ireland, and I will teach you about Orks in person.
In the words of JBJ - Have a Nice Day.
LOL, you mean teaching me about how you fail with orks? No thanks. I don't fancy the idea of being taught by a fool.
Not really having an issue with vulgarity, just amused to see you trolls boasting about how much you know about 40k or the armies, but being trumped in games.
We aren't the trolls here buddy - this is Kirby's house, and we're his e-friends. Irrespective of anything else, we aren't trolling.
We all lose games, btw - if I didn't lose, I'd have given up long ago for lack of fun. I can't speak for the others, but I'm fairly confident they feel the same.
If you're afraid of my challenge, that's fine. Assuming Chumby is telling the truth about said weaponry failing him, that's clearly a luck issue, and no other factor actually matters when it's that bad. I've seen Gretchin beat and wipe Terminators in CC before, sometimes luck just pwns all.
As regards Orks in particular, I have used them over one hundred times in this Edition, and have used not only every unit in the Dex, but a lot if not most of the combinations within - only losing three times - twice to other Orks. I know what I'm doing with them, and I say they suck because of certain immutable facts, clearly laid out here and elsewhere. Previous editions of the game are irrelevant to now, but no doubt you disagree and wish to crow about your years of experience - I have played Orks since 1995, so I know plenty on that intrinsically flawed basis also. Finally, I have had private conversations with 3 official playtesters, excluding one-time Design Team staff - so I fancy I DO actually know plenty about the system itself, not that I need validation from them, or indeed to validate myself to some cockweasel on the internet too scared of being realised for the shitstirrer he is to use his own pseudonym or real name.
And, as I own over 12000 points of Orks, you wouldn't even have to pay baggage, I would happily lend you an army. If course, if you, out of spite, broke my models I'd break your knees - but it's all fun and games until someone breaks someone else's toys.
Fool I may be - but you, sir, have been taught.
Personally Anon, I don't care what you think.
- You do not back up your claims with your own evidence. (Like we said, tourney results don't tell everything lest someone has to explain why Necrons are winning sometimes? Really silly.)
- No coherent thought process. (ORKS IS GUD! ORKS IS GUD! MY WORD IS LAW WITH NOTHING BACKING IT UP! ORKS IS GUD!) However, we have pointed out the situations here, I described what I think is a typical battle against Orks, tell me what the Ork player did wrong and SHOULD have done would help.
- Thereby, asking for us to provide evidence while you provide nothing makes you the Troll. I deny your challenge, call me a coward and see the irony.
Took him a while to type that up, must be having trouble dealing with those big, hairy digits.
It's ok kiddo, you'll figure it out one day. We'll be waiting for you at the grown ups' table.
HAY GUYZ MY FRIEND ARE SUPES GUD AND WE DECIDED ORKS R DA BEST (LOL) BUT IF U DONT AGREE UR P.DUMM CUZ U WONT PALY ME @ VASSALS.
SRY I COULDN'T THINK OF A NAME AWESOME ENUF 2 KONTAIN ME, LOLS, AND I CHALLENGE EVERYONE HERE TO A [[[MEGA ALL OUT FINAL BATTLE SPECTACULAR]]] AND IF U WIN ILL GIVE YOU $1000000000000000000000 (IN BRITISH) BUT GUD LUCK LOLZ I HAF NEVER LOST A GAME AND USUALLY MY OPPONENTS RUN HOME CRYING AND GIVE ME THEIR GIRLFRIENDS SO I HAF A LOT OF SEX P.OFTEN.
Did I miss anything else? Am I up to date?
I genuinely hope Kirby starts deleting comments.
You're an absolute tool, have not justified ANY of your comments and won't even give your name so we can see how you get along on Vassal.
If you hadn't noticed, we all notice our deficiencies here, are trying to correct them and to help others. Something I can say you have done nothing to help.
Please don't bother with trying to make my name into something 'funny', Brother Boring was probably on your mind, but I'll steal that away from you before YOU bore us all with it. And don't bother saying how bad I am at 40k/Vassal or how much of a NOOB I am or how badly I get pwned.... I'm happy to tell you all that myself.
Now please just go and troll elsewhere! Apparently BoLS is looking for an addition to it's readership.
OR... you could just provide something useful, but I doubt you'll take that option.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tool
Didn't think you'd take the 2nd option! But am always happy to help :-x
Definiton 2 fits you perfectly!
And Brolo takes it. Thanks for playing everybody.
A little late to the party, but it fails to take into account multiple charges (the heart of all KoS tactics), redundancy (important to all ork lists) and synergies (something orks need as well). Basically, no unit should ever work alone, and there shuold be multiple units for every role.
Also, Ram is almost a manditory choice on trukks, less for tankshock, and more for driving through cover, meaning the trukks that are away from the KFFs or aren't hiding behind other trukks for obscured can use terrain to the maximum advantage.
i will agree that in ork mek lists you do blob up around the big mek with kff but if your wise you will have a back up cover from bikes or buggys, and i will agree that one unit of orks on the charge wont have the easiest time against a equal squad of marines, but personally i use them as a means to an end. one thing that has served me quite well is tank shocking the flanks of a unit to get them all closer together, then blasting away with trigger happy grot zookas. although i will say once im figured out the kanz are quickly targeted but thats why i have meks toten around the whole army :) three divisions each boasten three mekz also the same concept of pushing the squad inward is used with my wagon mounted burnas, and one thing i would like to finish with is although i could do the same kind of thing with sw or reaper eldar first off i like 18 small blast templates and 24 flame templates a turn... of course considering i can get through with the initial blob lol
also i personally take 6 trukks with boyz in addition to the other fun stuff so (eg.) two ork units can charge 1 marine unit
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