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Thursday, March 18, 2010

Armies in 5th: Orks Part 5: Summary

Well we've arrived at the end of the Ork articles quickly in terms of content (if not time) and you'll find this becomes a recurrent theme. The newer books and more competitive ones will have more to cover (particularly the newer books) as there are more variables I need to cover. Again remember I'm doing the first armies from the perspective of the under/over-rated armies in 5th edition currently. Digressing...

So we've looked at Orks as a whole and made some against the internet grain conclusions (i.e. Trukks are bad, Wazdakka is good, Orks are bad, etc.) based on sound principles and logic. Dispute of these leads to death :)! Now not all is lost for the Ork army, whilst you're certainly never going to compete in the 'top tiers' of army lists in the hands of a compete general some of the better lists put out have the ability to win games regularly. Remember no one likes lots of S7 coming their way and you do have that normal bell curve on your side (see: Crisis suits and number of shots). But what about those units I didn't really cover? Let's take a look now.

Nob Bikers. We covered these briefly as a potential mini-close combat unit but otherwise said they were bad but didn't really go into why. Unlike a Seer Council or Command Bike Squad, Nob Bikers will not make a balanced list. Both Councils and Commands are built in 24" armies, don't take up so many points the rest of the army doesn't get a decent chunk and has a list around it that in isolation is very effective. Nob Bikers do not have any of this and this makes them easy to predict and sacrifice units to. Add in the firepower or certain psychic powers armies like IG, SM, SW, BA and Tyranids have and well, they just aren't effective.

We said Lootas are hands-down the best Elite and unfortunately there are some semi-decent units in there we could of used elsewhere such as Nobz or Meganobz (hint for next codex GW make these Troop choices with an SC!). Both of the Nobz options are very feasible choices and if you wanted to drop a Loota squad for more Buggies and grab some more of these guys that's certainly an option but remember you need to shore up your anti-tank as much as possible. The other options, Kommandos, Burna Boyz and Tankbustas are all crap "aspect warriors." They each try to bring to bear a large amount of specialisation rarely seen out of Eldar (i.e. mass meltaguns or in this case Rokkits) but with crappy BS and reliance on numbers it doesn't really work for Orks. You want cheap Ork Boyz, not expensive ones.

Other than that we just have the Stormboyz which I haven't covered. Again the Deffkoptas and Buggies are your best options here for early alpha striking or TL-rokkits (Warbikers are useful as troops). Stormboyz are again basic Boyz but have that extra ability (able to move 12"). This ability however will leave them out to dry where they are going to get shot. Move into terrain and you're going to lose 1/6 of your squad. At 12pts a model? Again not useful and they eat into your anti-tank.

So you should now be able to make an Ork list which is capable of not getting hammered every game where you are maximising your chances of popping mech. Whilst in comparison to lists on the internet you have much less anti-infantry power and close combat ability, these are useless if you can't destroy mech. With the outlines I've given in my articles there are quite a few variations on what you can take which revolve around the same concept (you can't get everything "good" in) compared to the Tau codex which after 1000 pts becomes a repeating of units (though these units are miles better than what the Ork codex has to offer currently).

With all that being said the Orks are still a sub-par army that isn't really capable of dealing with mech. By only having 3 "reliable" anti-tank units (the Lootas) and not being able to put out the accurate firepower that can slow enemy mech (like Tyranids) they will often be on the backfoot contrary to what the internet thinks (if you do think Orks are good, speak up. You've been rather quiet since Trukks). I'll drop a sample list below (which I just changed because I can't follow codex rules properly :P).

HQ -

Warboss w/Power Klaw, Bike

Elites -
Lootas x11

Lootas x11

Lootas x11

Troops -
3x Nobz w/combi-skorchas
Battlewagon w/'ard case, Deffrolla, 2 big shootas

10x Gretchin

5x Warbikes

5x Warbikes

Fast Attack -
2x Buggies w/TL-Rokkits

2x Buggies w/TL-Rokkits

3x Deffkoptas w/TL-Rokkits, 1 w/Buzzsaw

Heavy Support -
3x Kanz w/Grotzookas

3x Kanz w/Grotzookas

Battlewagon w/'ard case, Deffrolla, 2 big shootas

Total: 2000 pts
12 vehicles
61 infantry (15 bikes)

So not at all a convetional list. I've gone here for a Kanz wall behind the BWs. The Buggies/Deffkoptas are your mobile light anti-armor and the Deffkoptas can get a 1st turn alpha strike in on some heavier armor if needed with the buzzsaw + scout. Lootas are pretty standard with their shooting otherwise Battlewagons advance with Bikers & KFF to push into midfield. Now remember your Fast Attack is there to land some hits, they are never going to reliably pop tanks so we want them to be limiting your opponent's mobility and shooting whilst your Lootas pop transports. This allows the Kanz and Deff Rollas to get into position where you will have a strong midefield presence. Wazdakka can play tag with the Warbikes & Koptas as needed or munch on weak backline units. Your scoring is a bit weak but you've got 2 AV14/12/10 proper tanks holding units which won't do much until late game. If your opponents shoot at them early, yay. Make sure to angle them to get as much AV14 as possible.

Again, not the most competitive of lists and there are certainly other variables that can fit into such a list but you at least have a fair chance now against mech'd armies.

Edit: Because I fail I messed up the list and have just given it a band-aid fix really. GWvsJohn's list here is probably a better example but using a Nob Bikers unit. I'll try and make it a more reasonable list ASAP which is more efficient. Thank you GWvsJohn and MagicJuggler for pointing out my mistake.

10 pinkments:

Anonymous said...

GWvsJohn here

How do you get a Nobz squad as troops without a warboss here?

MagicJuggler said...

Yep...sadly it would be illegal. In this case it might sadly be better to drop the bikers, grab a shoota squad or two, and another Deff Dread. You end up becoming more dependent on the Kanz not dying as they're what keep your Boyz alive, but you'd be able to maintain the mix of 3 lootas/2 battlewagons.

Kirby said...

Oh dear brain fart again. I'll go fix that, thanks for picking it up.

MagicJuggler said...

I am actually contemplating experimenting with Tankbustas in place of Lootas if only for the "Can haha split fire/actually attempt to glance AV 14" aspect (in other words, something to draw attention from/act as a backup to the Deffrolla wagons. That and the getting a bosspole, and not being isolated from the rest of the Ork army. Likewise, I find myself working with Kommandos for purpose of screening against Scout-rushes.

The *rest* of the Ork army does decent enough when it comes to anti-infantry shooting. My only question would be if Tankbustas allowed to Run in the shooting phase...

Anonymous said...

What kind of crap list is this? You are playing 40k for the first time? I m sure.

Da Warboss said...

As always, someone who thinks orks are limited, but don't see how there's always an ork player up there contending for the top 3 at most tourneys...

Kirby said...

As always, a very constructive point full of rebuttals and wit Warboss.

Left Bower said...

Although I agree that orks are definately not top tier, they're hardly as bad as you seem to make out.

Trukks aren't as terribad as you make out, when taken in the context of an entire list, and you dismiss ork boyz as too slow, yet take kanz, who have the same speed (and yes, a greater range, but the difference is minimal with anything but bigshootas, which is something that a KOS list doesn't need (Anti-infantry is covered by boyz, bikes, etc. and is something orks as a whole do well).

Also, don't dismiss komandoz and burna boyz - although lacking in some aspects, they do decently in some lists. Hardly the stuff of tourny pros, but not terrible.

I find that lootas aren't as good in a KoS list (KoS orks can deal with light armour and infantry easily, and will tend to engage these targets in melee, or block firelines to the units from the static lootas, the elite spots can be used for some nob squads (In battlewagons - these ones can be left open topped, if you make sure to keep them obscured, cover their flanks, etc.)

Will said...

Any chance you'd do a "fixing orks in 5th (or 6th) ed" article? I'd love to hear what you think can be done to get them up to par without just adding meltas or better transports.

Lances_Blog said...

I'd have to disagree with this. I've been very competitive in 5th edition using a Green Tide army list. Not to type it out with point values but here is the basis of my 2500pt army (we play large at my game shop)

Ghazghkull Thraka (Prophet of da WAAAGH!)
Big Mek w/KFF (trail at least one boy to him)

3x 15 Lootas

4x 30 Slugga Boyz w/Nob PK BP
30 Shoota Boyz w/Nob PK BP
29 Grots

3x Suicide Deffkoptas w/TL Rokkits, Buzzsaw

3x 3 Kannons

The basic strategy is to set up Kannons and Lootas in the back of your army, run forward with near everything else and when you're within 18" prophet of the waaagh! means an 18" assault from 150 boyz, with 6 total PKs in the army. Trail a line of boyz from each squad to the central Big Mek for the 5+ save. Lastly, use outflank with the suicide Deffkoptas to hit the side armor and if you miss, you have a S7 assault with 3 attacks.

So there ya go, competitive Orks.

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