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Wednesday, May 5, 2010

Email in: BA Jumper 1750 - need advice



Hi Kirby,


after seeing your jumper army I am very keen to start one of my own.

I am very new to this game and this is gonna be my 1st army and would like to seek your opinion on a 1750 version of your all jumper list as my local community only plays with 1750points.

If I am not mistaken. the idea of this list is to Deepstrike the entire army and hopefully they do not die if landing on terrains, endure 1 round of shooting from the enemy(pray we do not die) and then proceed to (move,shoot, assault)

Librarian and HG are to attack tanks, MC

Assault Squad 10man to be attached with Sang priest to attack everything else. sometimes combat squading them for more assault from different angles.

I am not sure for the actual use of the Vanguard Vets, are they used for assaulting hard to die troops? as in similar to the role of Lib and HG?

please help to tweak this list and as I am financially constraint, would love to have an expert's view on it before i proceed to acquire these models.

Some tips on the Strengths and Weaknesses of this army would be much appreciated.

Looking forward to your reply and thanks for reading.

Cheers
Asey


1750 point

HQ
01 Librarian 100 (Jump pack 25, Blood lance, Sanguine sword) = 125

05 Honour Guard 115 (Jump packs 50, 3 melta gun 30) = 195

Elites
02 Sanguinary Priest 100 (2Jump pack 50, 2 infernus pistol) = 180

Troops
10 Assault Squad 190 (2 Melta gun 20, 1 infernus pistol, 1 Power fist 25) = 250

10 Assault Squad 190 (2 Melta gun 20, 1 infernus pistol, 1 Power fist 25) = 250

05 Assault Squad 100 (1 Melta gun 10, 1 infernus pistol, 1 Power fist 25) = 150

Fast Attack
05 Vanguard Veteran Squad 115 (glaive enc, 4 storm shield 80, jump packs 50, powerfist 25 2 melta bomb 10, 2 infernus pistol30) = 310

05 Vanguard Veteran Squad 115 (glaive enc, 3 storm shield 80, jump packs 50, powerfist 25 2 melta bomb 10, 2 infernus pistol30) = 290
 
Hey there Asey,
 
Well first off your 1750 list is pretty good. You could change things up (maybe drop all the SS and the 5 man ASM for another VV squad?) but as it stands, it's solid. One thing I would change is giving your Libby Shield of Sangunine as a 2nd power over Sword. I did a brief How To on Jumper armies and will be writing some more about them today but you've capture their essence in your list so we'll skip to tactics.
 
The way you've equipped your VV makes them as survivable as possible against super  units but otherwise their offense is so-so. On the drop you want these guys engaging the most potent shooters you can get to or to clog lanes towards your ASM. Once their role in this is over you want these guys to take the brunt of your opponent's super unit assault. Remembering every Marine in the Jumper army with FNP is equally survivable against small arms but your VV are the only ones with significant (any really) protection against AP1/2, etc. weapons. If your opponent doesn't have units like this, just consider them upgraded ASM in assault.
 
In regards to Priests and combat squadding...I generally combat squad my ASM as it gives me more units with meltaguns. Whilst my melta stays the same, my capacity to inflict damage increases due to saturation. This does make it harder to cover everyne with a FNP/FC bubble but with 43 models and 3 bubbles you should be okay, it will take some practice though.
 
After the initial drop Jumpers are all about being mobile w/melta, having really good defense against small arms torrent and outclassing you in assault. This means you have to keep your FNP/FC bubbles alive and use combined assaults (assuming you've combat squadded). 5 FC Marines don't scare many people but when you've got 8+ of the squads running around? Not fun for them. Here their strengths lie in being able to out-melee most mech spam armies whilst still having the melta and mobility to deal with their mech. Jumper lists however, do not like Dreads/MCs or super units. Whilst they have the VV to soak up damage from super units, it would generally require an assault by most of your army to reliably kill said unit and it's best to melta them to death before hand (or their transport). MCs/Dreads are really only scared by PFists (which is why they are there) but you only have so many PFists whilst they munch a couple models a turn. Take these down with melta if you can ASAP. Otherwise any deepstrike defense in terms of bubblewrap (alleivated by blood lance and VV), mystics or tempest can put a hamper on Jumper lists and it may be better to deploy normally.
 
Hope that helped and post here or drop me a line if you need any more help and let us know how it goes! My friend who has just started 40k has decided on a BA Jumper list too so it should get interesting :).

7 pinkments:

Chumbalaya said...

Yay for jump marines.

I agree.

Asey said...

Hi thanks for ur reply! Was thinkin. That my VV would die easily as i usually won't be DSing near my FNP bubbles.. But kinda weak on the offensive ya.. Haha but giving them more offense weakens their defence sigh.. Dilemma

Kirby said...

Aye, DSing into Bubbles is the hardest part with Jumper lists. Sometimes it's best to run your Priest squad, the loss of a meltagun is painful but keeping FNP on your guys is more important. DS your Priests/HG first and then DS around them. Less calcualations needed for deviation then. Or if you're HIing on a noob squad (say Grots) which you are pretty sure you'll wipe and consol, you can play more aggressively with the VV as they have a chance to move back into the bubble.

Remember, the VV aren't there to scare the crap out of your enemy, they are there to keep the rest of your marines kicking and tickled pink.

Asey said...

I think the other downside of this army is the randomness due to DS, sometimes a random scatter may land ur squad on ur own friendly units making them mishap or die to dangerous terrain check.. But the randomness also means ur opponent cannot predict the result as well haha.. Pretty exciting and competitive I think and hope it will turn out

Kirby said...

At the same time this army works because your scattering an average of 3.5" compared to 7" 2/3 of the time. This is also why I prefer more bubbles in my Jumper armies because there is going to be some deviation.

Asey said...

Hmm was wondering if 4 squads of 5 man would be enough if I were to reduce ASM to squeeze in another VV.. Jus afraid that I do no have enough scoring units

Kirby said...

I'd say that's too little. VV are good to have but you don't want to go all out on them over the rest of your army. You still need Blood Lances, meltaguns (and bodies) + FNP/FC bubbles. VV lose out in anti-vehicle and bodies department to the ASM. You want to tie up your opponent with the VV so your ASM can strike where they are needed. Take too few...and you can't strike hard enough.

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