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Monday, May 31, 2010

Email in: BA list...


Hey Kirbs,

I've seen how bad the blog is recently and I'll give you an opportunity to redeem yourself :p

The new Wayland Games advert (<3 +1) is looking very enticing and I've got some bucks to burn so I thought I'd ask for some help.

I'm thinking about an all Sang Guard list (1500/1750) as it'd be cheap and would tide me over until DE come through.

Cheers,

BroLo
Well first off, if you haven’t seen the ad it’s on the left! If you’re thinking of going through Wayland please use it! My massive order before was placed through them so I can give them a good report and am glad to advertise for them. I’m at a uni computer currently and noticed I have to scroll sideways to see the whole page, is anyone else finding this? Do I have to go play with my page width! Onto Loring’s request...

Well Sang Guard, the new rage ^^. Tim over at the Vanus Temple has put together a really nice looking Sang Guard army but we’ll try and make a more balanced force. We’ll go for 1750 and drop down to 1500 and try and emulate previous Jumper lists but with Sang Guard instead of ASM. This list will obviously operate differently as Sang Guard are a lot harder to kill but there are less models. They are also more powerfulin combat but not great against super units thanks to no invuls. As Troops they also lack 12” meltagun fire so need to get closer to pop tanks. So to start off we need Dante (duh) and we’ll take 3 squads of Sang Guard w/a Pfist & 2 inferno pistols. This gives each squad the chance to deal w/high T targets & Walkers in combat + can shoot down tanks. This takes our total quickly up to 915 pts, half gone.

We’ll also want a Librarian to provide psychic defense, blood lance and shield. 125 pts w/a Jump Pack. We also want a fun unit for Dante to drop down in and really whack something with meltaguns. We’ll therefore take an Honor Guard squad w/4x meltaguns & Jump Packs. This provides one FNP/FC bubble but is likely to be shot at a lot due to the meltagun concentration & Dante. This squad will cost us 205 pts. Let’s see what we have left. 1245 so 505 for 1750 & 255 for 1500. We need some Sanguinary Priests (2) as well and at 75 each w/a Jump Pack, we’re running low on points (355 left). We may have to drop the HG and add some more pistols to the Sanguinary Guard.

Now we have some options here. We can go pure Sanguinary Guard for a crazy nipple army or add some VV. I think VV are the better bet because, like in an ASM Jumper army, they really help with the removal of bubble-wraps, tying up units popped from tanks and tying up incoming firepower heading towards your Troops. With 355 points to spend though we’re not going to get much and we want to put SS on these guys so they can surive super units. So let’s see what we can squeeze in, remembering out combat oomph comes from the Sang Guard whilst the VV want to be survivable against super units and still poke crap units in combat. 165 pts gets us VV w/Jump Packs & a Glaive but only leaves 25 points (one SS). Let’s drop the Honor Guard (we still have 2 FNP/FC bubbles) and add two more pistols to a Sang Guard squad (so we gain 185 points). This lets us put 4 SS per VV squad so we’ve got 50 points leftover. Drop a pistol from the 4 pistol Sang Guard squad and we can fit two inferno pistols into each VV squad. Let’s see what we have.

HQ –
Dante

Librarian w/Jump Pack, Blood Lance, Shield of Sanguine

Elites –
Sanguinary Priest w/Jump Pack

Sanguinary Priest w/Jump Pack

Troops –
5x Sanguinary Guard w/3x inferno pistols, Power Fist

5x Sanguinary Guard w/2x inferno pistols, Power Fist

5x Sanguinary Guard w/2x inferno pistols, Power Fist

Fast Attack –
5x Vanguard Veterans w/Jump Packs, 4x Storm Shields, Glaive, 2x inferno pistols

5x Vanguard Veterans w/Jump Pakcs, 4x Storm Shields, Glaive, 2x inferno pistols

Totals: 1750 points
Jumpers: 29

Overall, not bad. To jump up to 2000 you could add another Sang Guard squad or head back to the HG squad but to drop down to 1500 you’d have to lose a VV squad which may make this army a bit harder to operate at that level. Like most Jumper armies, it’s main weakness is Walkers/MCs in combat and dealing with hordes outside of combat. FNP will be dragged down with 40+ attacks. It lacks a bit in anti-tank compared to other Jumper armies but looks cool on the table and is much more potent in combat.

Is this what you were looking for Loring? And others thoughts on the change from pure ‘Bloodwing?’ Passable or do we stick to pure Bloodwing or dropping in a squad of Sang here and there in a Jumper list?

11 pinkments:

Brother Loring said...

Thanks Kirbs!

It's a fine list but I'm a little worried about those pistols not being in range on the drop. As I've very little experience with them, i this a common problem??

If so, I like your idea of some assault marines (10 with a couple of meltas?) instead of one unit of sang guard... but then it's not much of a sang guard force with just 2 squads.

And 1750 list for under £100... result!

Thank you again young sir!

*time for vassal play-testing - any offers??

Eddie said...

For a Sanguinary Guard Jump Pack All Deep Strike list (wow, that's a mouth full), I like this. The only thing I'm critical of is how hard the vanguard don't hit in CC.

Chumbalaya said...

Gee, that list looks familiar :P And without a single shout out, I had a sad.

I love me some Bloodwing and I think this is the best way to run it. Swapping 1-2 SG squads for RAS would be a good way to fit in more melta and bodies, but some times you just have to field them nipples.

Brolo, I think the Bloodwing is a pretty hard counter to my nids (FNP negated across the board, 2+ saves and FNP everywhere, and superior combat prowess) but I'd give it a shot.

Brother Loring said...

Chumby... you're comments about the need for 'roided-up man nipples just confirms my thoughts about you!

Dante would never drop with n00bs though, that's why Sang Guard would be sweet. Man nipples all the way! Give me a shout next time you're lurking.

I hear what you're saying eddie. Maybe I've got to find some points for a couple of hammers....

Eddie said...

I do like me some thunder hammers on my Vanguard. Only one is needed per squad though in my opinion. After the first just take a power fist or fists.

One thing to consider - a large part of what Vanguard are about, especially in this army is the charge from deep strike. If you declare a heroic intervention you can't shoot that turn.

For this reason I don't like infernus pistols on Vanguard because infernus pistols up the price on an already expensive glass cannonish unit without increasing that unit's ability during their "peak" (the charge from deep strike).

My favourite alternative to give them some anti tank is melta bombs. If say, you expected to charge a unit once their transport was popped by another unit but it wasn't actually popped, you can still charge it with the meltabombs (and thunderhammers or fists if you took em!).


Now let's see.. a couple of ideas you may like. First if you wish to keep the 4 storm shields but the second only has 3. Both're the same points costs as the squads in the list above.

Vanguard sergeant with thunderhammer and storm shield.
Vanguard with storm shield and melta bombs.
Vanguard with storm shield and melta bombs
Vanguard with storm shield and melta bombs.
Vangard with bp/ccw.

(if you like trade the melta bombs for a single lightning claw, better at CC but alot less anti tank)

Vanguard sergeant with thunder hammer and storm shield.
Vanguard with power fist and storm shield.
Vanguard with storm shield and melta bombs
Vanguard with melta bombs, bp/ccw
Vanguard with bp/ccw

Chumbalaya said...

My Bloodwing Vanguard is usually kitted like so.
Thunder Hammer+Storm Shield
Lightning Claw+Storm Shield+melta bombs
Lightning Claw+Storm Shield
melta bombs
normal

LCs benefit most from Furious Charge, but it's still tough and smashy with wound allocation shenanigans.

Brother Loring said...

I like your style Chumb... wound-allocation shenanigans galore! Perhaps a 4th storm shield on the melta bomb guy but otherwise... nice.

Eddie, I think some more Ini5 power weapons are needed for it to work well.

Kirby said...

Truthfully forgot about pistols & HI ^^ so good point Eddie. Also Chumb, is this what your Bloodwing looks like? Sorry lol not much options same with a pure Jumper. but here...

Chumby did one at B&H, too but he said nipples too often.

The short range of the pistols is a problem Loring but it's a problem you get used to and can be mitigated w/HG @ 2000.

Brother Loring said...

I think the thing is... if you take some pistols as well as hammers you have options. If you're reserve rolling is poor or your DS-ing for the SG looks as if transport-popping is going to be a toughie, you've got another option with the VV pistols. You don't have to declare HI.

Without them, you're relying on D-Sing well and hitting the tank (it may well have moved 12" in prep for your drop - I am hoping to play some good opponents) before even thinking about penetrating it. IPs couldn't give a hoot how fast you move. Just hammers/claws is nice, but more options is better.

Kirby said...

True in regards to HI & pistols though again,I completely forgot ^^. In this style of list though the VV are there as a shield to hold up super units and then charge w/Sang Guard.

Anonymous said...

Been so long since there was a new post here... someone talk more about blood angels!

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