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"Pink isn't a color. It's a lifestyle." - Chumbalaya
"...generalship should be informing list building." - Sir Biscuit
"I buy models with my excess money" - Valkyrie whilst a waitress leans over him

Friday, May 14, 2010

Email in: Spesh Mareens and list building in the name of the emprah

"Greetings from the oppisite side of the hemisphere mr most-annoying-smash-bro's-character-of-all-time :)

My names Stuart and I've been following your blog for a month now. All is awesome, keep up the postage and don't go crazy and abandon the internet; we like your stuff down here in Aussieland.

Now I've recently got back into 40k (last time I played is when your troops only had sticks and rocks to throw at each other and where made out of steel spikes) and have realised that I need to improve on my tactics, my luck and list-building. The first 2 I am working on by getting game experience and praying to mutiple deities (so far Thor seems to be working, my last opponent was struck by lightning). But in the list-buidling department I have hit a bit of a snag. Due to cash problems, not having an extra arm and not being a time lord I don't have the ability to try out all the combo's the glorious most holy tome that is the vanilla marines codex has to offer (or even proxy for that matter). This is where you or any other nintendo character that can provide good advice comes in, by helping me with this army-creating business that seems to be the rage over the internet these days.

Now that messy background is out of the way (yes you didn't have to read it but I'm tired and fail editing so suck it up*) I have a few questions on building mareens into an army of awesome. Now at the moment I have a 1000 pt limit because that is what my LGS currently operate around (I could cry and whine about this but I'm new and have no icecream in the fridge so I just live with it.)

After a playtest against guard and dying a horrific, messy, flashlight infused death I came up with this:

servitor 110
Dread, plasma cannon and missile launcher 125
Dread, plasma cannon and missile launcher 125
Tac squad, flamer and multimelta and sarge with combi melta in a razorback with a TL/Plas 255
5 scouts, camo cloaks snipers and a rocket launcher 100
HF/MM speeder 70
Typhoon speeder 90
AC/LS pred 120

Coming to 995

now for the important bit

How do you see me improving this list? I'd like you to point out the flaws and errors that I've intentionally included.

Also if you could give me a guide of what options work well with others, say like vanguard with a trash compacter or vulkan with TH/SS termies to give me an idea of how to introduce my chapter to a orbital strike of synergy.

Tips and tricks for your average gunline player would help too, just general things most competent generals do automatically or know to watch out for to give me a 1up over the competition.

Tl,DR: I suck, and would like your "how to" of playing spesh mareens at low points value.

DISCLAIMER; I know this should be up the top and I know I could cut this down but I needed that 5 minutes of your life to feel important and to sell on ebay so don't ask for it back


I know this may seem as me trying to be good in an instant, but I'm just trying to establish a base level of 'goodness' so I can work towards something on my goal of becoming the ultimate competitve wargamer ever in the history of anything**. And along the way I become famous and win money, womenz, superpowers and all that jazz.

Thanks for your help, abuse, refuse or anything else you decide to give me in advance***

Your faithul and never sober survey bitch

*Yes that was a smash joke. Yes it was intended. No, I have no shame.
**Even counting the extra dimensions
***Money is definately preferred, though I do accept traveller's cheques and gold in all its forms."
Amusing satire aside (and pointing out I live in Sydney…), it’s good to know crazy people as well as normal people read my blog! Worry not, I am descending ever deeper into my insanity as my progression through my thesis goes on…and on. So let’s break down what Stuart wants.

1) A good Space marine list which will scale up from 1000pts
2) Money
3) Superpowers & jazz
4) And a breakdown of options

The first one I can do, the 2nd and 3rd I keep for myself whilst the 4th would be a breakdown of stupendous proportions and won’t attempt here outside of a few things. So let’s look at those quick breakdowns first by looking at what should not be taken in general from the Marine codex:

Chapter Masters, Honor Guard, most SCs outside of Vulkan/Cassius, Techmarines, LC Termies, Vanguard, Thunderfire cannons, Whirlwinds, generally Vindicators, Scout Bikers, generally Assault/Devastator Marines, Land Speeder Storm and I think that covers it…

This leaves us with, Captain (on a Bike), Libby, Vulkan, MotF, Scouts, Tacs, Land Raiders, Predators, land Speeders, Attack & Normal Bikes, Sternguard, Dreadnoughts, Sternguard, Rhinos, Razorbacks and Land Speeders. This is where your personal playstyle comes in Stuart. Generally armies made up from these units are going to be halfway decent although you do need to think about how you’re constructing your army list. Plopping in one of everything for example is a bad idea. I will see if 3++ can put together a SM Review but that may have to wait for a while!

Now to your list. First off, beat your club with a rubber hammer that squeaks until they start using 1750 at a minimum. It’s just not kosher until then. Your basic unit structure seems to delve from the ‘Best Of” Marine list (my 2k variant here) of Stelek’s. So let’s see what we can do for 1000 pts, I’m going to assume models are not a problem.

Now scaling up to 2k is going to leave you pretty screwed at 1k in terms of Troops, so we shall do something different for your list. Your tac squad is a bit screwy with the Rback, so let’s drop them down to 5 men (keep the combi-melta) and take 2 of those squads and add a Libby over a MotF. Null Zone ftw thanks! Your Dreads need fixing, too (really PC & ML?). Since we’re going for a sit back and shoot theme we’ll change these babes to 2x TL AC. 700pts so far.

Since we are playing keep away and shoot away, we’ll add in 2 Typhoons in separate squads. Whilst this leaves us with minimal melta, there shouldn’t be much AV14 out there at 1k points anyways. When there is, well give the guy a kick, talk to the shop owner and point out this is why 40k should be played at 1750+; balance. This leaves us with 120 pts, so we could go for the LC/AC Pred but I’m going for saturation here and taking 2 bare Preds (:O!). This leaves us with:

Libby w/Null Zone & whatever

2x Dreadnought w/2x TL AC

2x Marines x5 w/combi-melta, Rback w/Las/plas

2x Typhoons
2x Predator

Total: 1000pts
8 tanks (at 1k? Nice)
11 infantry

Light on infantry but heavy on saturation. Preds go in front with everything else shuffled behind (another reason we didn’t go for AC/LC). Now if you wanted to take this to 2000 points you could take 5 Las/Plas Squads, 3x Typhoons, 3x AC/LC Preds, 3x Riflenoughts, Libby though it lacks a bit of anti-AV14 (you could do some shuffling to get in MM/HF speeders over Typhoons) as a variation on the Best Of list or you could simply build towards that.

So does that answer your very convoluted e-mail?

Oh and do you live in Sydney? Or some random town in Australia =D?

9 pinkments:

Skellum said...

Holy crap I'm on the internet! *Waves*
It's nice to know even the crazies recieve love here, if I ever come to one of your games expect to see me in a kirby suit as a show of my thanks and support :D
Anyway onto this warhammer stuff and enough of my rambles...
It hurts me deep inside knowing some of the awesomest models to ever awesome can't be used properly: I guess LOTD can be called sternguard. Just sternguard that caught fire. And decided not to die. Genius!
Despite playing a very small number of games, I know I lean towards the smacking stuff side of 40k. Now if I wanted a completely assault oriented army I'd be playing BA and having rabies-infused red people throwing melta-bombs everywhere (something I wish to dabble with in the future *looks at jump pack articles*)BUT I think 'nilla marines are probably a better place to get an introduction to this gentlemen's game.

As for the list, consider me a fan on its facebook page. With my previous list I didn't really thing about the whole "move-foward-and-capture-stuff-because-thats-how-you-take-objectives" thing*. And luckily for me (or by the will of Thor, depends on how you see things) Lords of Terror is coming up so I shall get some 1750 experience(and see you + other internet personalitys?) in the near future so having this as a base will be awesomely awesome.

I like the 2 pred idea most of all. Suppressive fire is for pansies, real men run over and ram things to kill stuff. Can't shoot my side armour when you have a tank embedded in your face**.

As for expanding, I originally thought razorspam with supporting armour was the way to go but I then found out about space wolves and how they do that much better. And I don't get on well with those space vikings***. I was thinking of adding a 10man TH/SS unit like Stelek suggested for a 1500 list and building around that for 1750 as I feel that is more of a 'vanilla build'. Copy and paste yes but I can't for the life of me think of another viable assault unit that fits in relatively well to the mech theme.

And I do live in Sydney thankfully. But I would question how you could guess so well...

Ergh it seems I still have convolutits and a complete disregard for my need for sleep, but thats again for the help ^.^

*Those PC's where there to kill terminatiors, but I see now thats why space marine chapters have librarians. Also I only recently found out about the aegis turret so now I will get those AC's without giving forgeworld my soul in the process.
**Probably not exactly how you intended them to go but I like being unconventional. And who doesnt like squishing things in a tank?
***We had a mutual disagreement.

Kirby said...

I knew I forgot something. Aye LotD are essentially useless but they are awesome models. Use them as Sternguard or Sarges, etc. If you want an in your face 3+ army, BA or SW are your bet indeed unless you want to play w/TH/SS termies (though that can be expensive to buy 2 Raiders).

You can get cheap ACs on the internet from the IG sprue rather than the AEGIS set. They aren't as perfect fits and require a bit of GS, but certainly cheaper.

My minions said you lived in Sydney but not where =D?

Skellum said...

With the termies, I was actually thinking of running them in a unit of 10 and on foot with a libby, you know because real men footslog :D
I like the IG idea as it means I can magnetise those arms too. Well unless I don't cut off my thumbs first.
And your minions are right, north side represent
*makes fist*

Kirby said...

Ditto. Where in the North :P?

Ya I've got all my arms magnetised. I need more magnets so I can magnetise the arms/backpacks of all my Marines so they can quickly become Jump Packers :).

I think Th/SS need to be in Raiders. Whilst forcing opponents to pick between the rest of your force and 10 scary termies is tempting...the Raider list is more balanced IMO.

Skellum said...

Is this one of those times where I find out you are actually me and I've been hiding it from myself this entire time? Because I really don't want my mind to asplode again.
I'm near a place called Terry Hills if that rings any bells? Basically the middle of nowhere.

*steals jump pack idea*
And since I don't actually own any raiders :( how would (or would you at all) consider using shooty termies and can something competitive be made around them?

Kirby said...

lol Bayview. I drive by your house twice a day at least =D.

You can make shooty termies work w/CML. Essentially take a SM shooty list and stick a 10 man Termie squad w/CMLs around it as your bubble-wrap. That's a hard bubble-wrap to move in terms of assualt or shooting (make sure they are in cover).

They may be replaced even more though by new GKTs depending if they can still ally.

Skellum said...

Woah, that's weird. Never figured I lived so close to civilization 0.o
Was just thinkin about the shooty terms as I found some from my old collection so I was wondering if there was any way to use em and save me money ^.^
But give me about a month or so and my army should be built :D Just drop me a line if you want to engage in some miniture warfare and I'll be happy to oblige :)

Kirby said...


Drop me a line on e-mail sometime when your army is all set :P, or undercoated lol.

Again, the Termies can be used as a bubble-wrap if you wish. Think Stelek has done an army or 2 around it? A list could go like this for 2k...

Libby w/Null & Avenger
2x RifleDreads
10x Termies w/2x CML
3x Las/Plas Rbacks w/5 Tacs w/combi-melta
3x AC/LC Preds
3x Typhoons

With 55 pts spare so could slap on some HKs. That gives you:

10 missiles, 9 LCs, 7 ACs, 3 PGuns, 3 combi-meltas; eh not bad considering the bubble wrap.

Skellum said...

I like the sound of this, I like it alot :)
All I have to do is steal or find some tanks and I should be ready to run it :D

Give me a couple of weeks to order everything (if only ebay were instant!) and it should be undercoated and ready to smush face. Where's your LGS?

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