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"Pink isn't a color. It's a lifestyle." - Chumbalaya
"...generalship should be informing list building." - Sir Biscuit
"I buy models with my excess money" - Valkyrie whilst a waitress leans over him

Wednesday, May 5, 2010

How (Not) To: BA Jumpers II

So, we’ve done a How To on Jumpers for BA and looked at quite a few lists recently. We’ve come to grips with the problems deep striking imposes (again these are limited for BA so they can do it successfully), highlighted our key units which we shouldn’t leave home without and left a few options open but what should you NOT take with your Jumper army?

Firstly…anything that’s not got a Jump Pack (Blood Rodeo list is an obvious design exception but that is not a pure Jumper). Tacticals, Devs, all vehicles, Sternguard, Termies, etc. You’re all out. Out. Outoutoutoutout. I never want to see you again! Game Friday? Anyways, whilst these guys have DS options such as Drop Pods or Teleport, they are not what we are looking for. They are more likely to force the army to come in waves (how’s that working Daemons?) and it just doesn’t synergise with your army well. Yes this even means Libby Dreads w/wings are out. They can’t DS by themselves and don’t get Descent of Angels, it’s a sad but true fact (aka balance). This also means Mephiston (and any other character w/o a Jump Pack & chuck in the Sanguinor for good measure) is out. You need synergy here because you are at a disadvantage on the drop and you need to force your opponent’s hand and crush him as hard as you can when you do drop and subsequent turns. Splitting your army generally does not do that.

So, what units can we take that we haven’t covered? Dante (to an extent I haven’t covered him, consider him useful and you can take him), Chaplains, Reclusiarch, Captain & Death Company have all been overlooked. Two of these are HQs and are therefore competing with BL Libbys…not good (Dante can pull it off because he gives you an uber DS unit + Sang Guard as Troops) which help make this list tick by threatening castling. The Captain is also just plain bad…and for 15 pts more you get the Reclusiarch’s abilities (the 30 pts for the Reclusiarch over the Chaplain is a good buy, +1 to A/W/I? done) which are really suited to DC. Other than that they don’t add enough to the army like the Libby does (anti-castling + Hood) as they really only improve one unit (quite significantly for DC). The Captain also doesn’t add anything outside a combat boost (which the Reclusiarch does better). No special options to make something else Troops and a boring statline makes me sad (I really want to re-paint Shrike and use him). So skip x2 here for the Jumper army.

The Chaplain is the same really as Reclusiarch and I know I could find 125 pts I’d rather spend elsewhere. Again, it really buffs DC but Jumper lists are strapped for points as is and particularly since you combat squad a lot, the re-rolls really don’t have that much effect.

So what about Death Company? I said before in my Armies in 5th for BA I wasn’t a fan. Lack of rending is bad. Whilst the new boxed set is fantastic, they just don’t cut it at 35 pts w/a pack. On foot/in a Rhino they are a more appropriate buy but the near double in price for Jump Packs is hefty. We’d also want to include Lemartes or a Reclusiarch to gain the most from the squad and we are really eating into our points here and still don’t have any anti-armor or low save ability outside of the Chaplain dude. Start making any significant in-roads into this unit and your opponent will leave it on a merry chase thanks to Rage.

Running a Jumper army comes down to a few specific and key units:
Vanguard Veterans
Honor Guard
Sanguinary Priest

With optional
Sanguinary Guard

When you start moving out of these units, your army loses synergy or something significantly important. Whether it’s melta, weight of bodies, FNP/FC bubbles or anti-castling/DS defense, these units provide that. It can be a bit boring but this is why we all invest thousands of pennies into this crazy hobby of ours!

9 pinkments:

Chumbalaya said...

Yep, take it from the Daemon and DW/RW player, having your shit comes in nice pre-packaged servings for your opponent is never good.

Anonymous said...

What about Land Speeders ? I'm building a 1500-1750pts JP army, and I'm considering adding a couple land speeders (either with just a MM, or Typhoons) to help bust tanks. Since they are fast skimmers, they should keep up with my guys... I'm just not sure whether they are survivable enough...

Anonymous said...

Usually a JP army will be all drop, so the speeders aren't as reliable in terms of coming in on time or where you want wthout DoA. They're also "high" value since you can take out 70 points and a melta with 1 shot. A BA list should have plenty of fast melta, I don't see why you'd need more.

Kirby said...

@Anon; like GWvsJohn said, the speeders would be unreliable in relation to the rest of the JP army and would also be bait for any anti-tank weapons. Whilst some people might argue that's less S8+ guns ignoring FNP on your Jumpers, it's generally more efficient for your opponent to have those guns aimed at tanks of some sort.

Anonymous said...

I'd really like you to make a comment on using multiple storm ravens in place of VV to assault.

My thinking is;
The SR brings some flexible weapon options (more AT?) and the ability to deliver dreads & non-JP troops, 18".

Have a lib inside for 5+ cover or move flat out for 4+ in the first turn. If you survive the first round of shooting, things should be looking good.

I can't get my head around using them against a very shoot army though. DS'ing them and then ? Get shot down probably. Maybe with scouts and a locator beacon you could DS them and unload all your missiles / TLLC / TLMM. Even if it pops your dread and combat squad should be close enough to the enemy to assault?

I'd love to hear what you have to say.

Kirby said...

Sorry got to this late. Storm Ravens are a different army. I'll try and put one together as I've had a couple of requests inc. one w/Termies.

Using them in a Pure Jumper list nets you the same problem as before but making a list around them is something different. The problem with the list will be though the opponent essentially has 3 targets to shoot at on T1 and even w/AV12 they are likely to drop.

Will see what I can come up with. Also have a shooty Marine list to do and play Supreme Commander 2 =D.

Jon said...

I'm coming to the party late, but building a Soul Drinker-themed army (from the novels) and using the Blood Angel codex. (Assault = Assault seems appropriate.)

Despite the DoA benefits... Why not put some units in drop pods to take advantage of Drop Pod Assault combined with Inertial Guidance? ASM appear to get them for free (35 = 35).

ASM drop on the enemy (with inertial guidance correction), combat squad and start wrecking transports. Later Pod + DoA drops can take advantage sooner, hopefully with less vehicles to deal with.

Kirby said...

The issue with Pods + DoA is you then split your forces up quite badly. Half of your Pods come in T1, 1/4 come in T2, etc. whilst 3/4 of your Jumpers come in T2, etc.

In the end you expose your Pod units on T1 too much to make it really viable.

Da Warboss said...

I've been using a list of Khan + command squad on bikes, bikes and assault marines with, of all things, Tigurius attached to my scouts (Well-hid, of course). Everything usually comes in froma side on turn 2 and makes a mess of the foe. Tigy has a huge pt cost, but after the reserve rolls are completed, you gate/dome/blast. Might add him to assault termies.

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