Based on looking at Stelek's rhino rush army. I believe that jump packers make the concept of rhino rush work better. Without further ado:
HQ: Librarian (Lance & shield) w/ jump pack: 125
Honor Guard: 300
3 HG (SS & meltagun)
1 HG (SS& pfist)
HQ: Librarian (Lance & shield) w/ jump pack: 125
Honor Guard: 300
3 HG (SS & meltagun)
1 HG (SS& pfist)
So thats 850 on the HQ slots. Out of that 850, I get 2 hard to kill squads (each with 4 SS) with lots of melta potential playing in the opponent's backfield. With 1000 points left, I am thinking 4 full RAS squads, each with 2 meltaguns, infernus pistol and pfist.
RAS 10 (2 melta, pfist, infernus): 250
RAS 10 (2 melta, pfist, infernus): 250
RAS 10 (2 melta, pfist, infernus): 250
RAS 10 (2 melta, pfist, infernus): 250
That gives me a total of 52 bodies. If I use the honor guard squads as my anchors, I should be able to give feel no pain to 1/2 to 2/3s of my troops. I typically combat squad all of my troops because I love the suicide 2man melta teams dropping 3 inches from a land raider.
Let me know what you think Kirby.
I’m assuming this is an all Jumper list =p. (edit: final list is at the end) I think it’s better than the Rhino rush due to the lack of reliance on 6 AV11 vehicles (compared to say 12+) but Jumper armies really need Vanguard Vets. I think 4x ASM is a bit much as well. They are excellent Troops but 4 of them…eh.
What I’d do then is drop at least one (and maybe a 2nd one to 5 man) and get in some bare bones VV. You’re using the HG as your ‘anti-super’ units so you don’t need SS on the VV. You’d also want another Priest just for insurance. 250 pts - 75 for a Priest leaves us 175 for the VV. Bare bones VV w/glaive are 165 so that fits. Can we shave enough off for another VV? Dropping an ASM squad to 5 men w/IP/meltagun = 125 pts so not enough. So it comes down to if you want the Priest or not? If you don’t you can scrape the points together for another VV by dropping a 10man ASM to a 5man and then add a few goodies here and there (such as hand flamers!).
So here’s what you have with 1 VV:
2x Libby w/lance, shield, jump pack
2x HG w/3x SS/meltagun, SS/Pfist, Jump Packs
Priest w/Jump Pack
3x 10x ASM w/2x meltagun, IP, Pfist
5x VV w/Jump Packs, Glaive
With 10 pts spare.
Or if you wanted the 2nd VV squad:
2x Libby w/lance, shield, jump pack
2x HG w/3x SS/meltagun, SS/Pfist, Jump Packs
2x 10x ASM w/2x meltagun, IP, Pfist
5x ASM w/meltagun, IP, hand flamer
2x 5x VV w/Jump Packs, Glaive
With 35 pts spare. I think the 2nd list is stronger and if you could shave 40pts for a SP w/Jump Pack I would. In fact, drop the hand flamer and the 2 IP from the 10x ASM and you’ve got yourself the Priest w/Jump Pack back. Let’s see what this leads to:
2x Libby w/lance, shield, jump pack
2x HG w/3x SS/meltagun, SS/Pfist, Jump Packs
Sang Priest w/Jump Pack
2x 10x ASM w/2x meltagun, Pfist
5x ASM w/meltagun, IP
2x 5x VV w/Jump Packs, Glaive
Much better. You’ve lost a bit in terms of model count (down to 48 from 52) and lost a little bit of anti-tank but gained in flexibility, especially on the drop. You’ve also got more squads (+ combat squadding on the ASM) but you still need to be careful with your FNP/FC bubbles as they will scatter and it gets annoying. Lance to pop transports and shield to allow you to drop into the open. VV tie up any units popped from transports or bubble-warps and HG are your “we’ve got melta! And SS!” unit to drop heavy tanks and survive heavy assault hitters.
7 pinkments:
VV are very important to a DoA build. Assault Marines are still just marines, so they will need help in HtH.
Which JP army do you think is stronger overall, this one of the one that puts the Storm shields on the vanguard vets?
Also, what do you think about starting on the table with a jumper army? I have played a few games against my buddies IG army that surrounds all his tanks with cheap squads, so that I can't deepstrike in to kill the tanks.
Whenever I deep strike in I get pie plated to death, even with the 5+ shield save. Even deep-striking into terrain doesn't help too much - and going behind terrain only meant he had to move a few tanks 6 inches to see the squads before blowing them up. Even cover saves don't stop that many pie plates when you roll 1 and 2s on the run dice after deepstriking.
The only way I was able to beat him was by starting on the table, going first, and keeping each and every one of my troops two inches apart from each other to minimize casualties while just eating the losses from jumping through area terrain.
But I keep reading that you ALWAYS deepstrike with this army. What am I doing wrong?
SS on VV personally. HG are already a huge target w/multiple meltaguns and a FNP/FC bubble on 5 men. Adding them as your super unit "catcher" means they are trying to do everything for the army. Giving SS to the VV allows them to play Heroic Intervention fun and super-unit catcher (which can be both at the same time). This means your opponent has to spread their fire a bit more.
Starting on the table can work but DSing is where they get their biggest advantage. IG really is this list's worst matchup as they can throw downa lot of blasts and have a huge bubble-wrap. If they are blast dominated (i.e. Medusasa/Manticores/Devildogs/PBS/Russes/etc) jumping across might be a better idea or split your squads up and either run them or try to get as much melta suppression as going (unless the bubble-wrap is too big). THrow your VV into the bubble-wrap, once they are done with them they can start slapping mbombs or kraks into the tanks.
50+ FNP marines is hard to get rid of and generally starting on the table allows your opponent more chances to get to them but it's understandable against IG.
Has anyone ever thought about doing a 2k DoA list with 3 squads of 5 vanguard?
That would work, you'd just need the RAS to crack open armor beforehand.
Here then is probably the best mix:
HQ: Libby 125
HQ: Libby 125
HG (3 melta): 195
E1: 2 Priests: 150
T1-3: 3 RAS (2 melta/fist): 705
FA: VV (5SS): 275
FA: VV (5SS): 275
@Eddie; yes. GWvsJohn's 2k variation runs that I believe but has less SS. Stelek's 2.5k has 3 VV as well.
@Jason; that's pretty much what I'm aimming to run atm. As you hit 2k aim for another HG squad.
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