Email in: Crimson Fists army list [1750]

"Gday,

I am after some advice for a Crimson Fists army list. Being a converter and painter more than a player i have a number of armies but none really that competitve and i am a little lost with trying to create an army that is reasonably competitive. Ideally the force operates with an ambush or surprise style that the crimson fists have developed since being almost wiped out.

I have looked at blood angels (cos they have good msu options and fast vehicles), space marine (cheap vehicles), and black templars (excellent msu troops, but no scouts, rifleman, expensive vehicles for no reason) as the codex base but the lists i create just dont seem to be effective. I am after a fluffy list with focus on scouts, multiple small squads (combat squadding even), sternguard. With no terminators, bikes, or heavy vehicles (landraiders, predators etc).

Heres a rough guide of 1750 point thoughts;

Space Marine -

Forgemaster- beamer

sternguard 5 - heavyflamer, multimelta, rhino
sternguard 5 - heavyflamer, multimelta, rhino

tact sq 10 - missle, flamer, bolter razorback
tact sq 10 - missle, flamer, bolter razorback
scouts 5 - tellion, snipers
scouts 5 - ccw

landspeeder 2 - multimelta, heavyflamer
landspeeder 2 - multimelta, heavyflamer
landspeeder 2 - multimelta, heavyflamer

dreadnought - autocannons
dreadnought - autocannons

blood angels -

librarian

sternguard 5 - heavyflamer, multimelta, rhino
sternguard 5 - heavyflamer, multimelta, rhino

assault sq 5 - flamer heavy bolter razorback
assault sq 5 - flamer heavy bolter razorback
assault sq 5 - flamer heavy bolter razorback
assault sq 5 - flamer heavy bolter razorback
scouts 5 - snipers
scouts 5 - ccw, power weapon, meltabombs

landspeeder 1 - multimelta, heavyflamer
landspeeder 2 - multimelta, heavyflamer
landspeeder 2 - multimelta, heavyflamer

dreadnought - autocannons
dreadnought - autocannons

I am after any ideas to fulfill a ambush style force that fits the fluff criteria im looking at. Im leaning toward the space marine list simply because of tellion coolness (even though he doesnt do that much game wise) and would probably be sold if i could take scouts with storms as transports not fast attack.

On a side note im aware that i cant have a top tier army with the restrictions just something that works well together and when used well can be top tier.

Thanks for taking the time to have a look.

Shepard."

Well they are both pretty decent lists considering the restrictions. The only thing I would recommend you look at is the Sternguard heavy weapons (or are they set?) and the Tactical/ASM squad weapon layout. For the SM list I'd go with the Sternguard having the Razorbacks and the Tacticals having the Rhinos and then give the Sternguards double Heavy Flamer + some combi-meltas and the Tacticals flamer/MM. Same with the Sternguard for the BA list (especially the combis) and fitting in some meltaguns (and infernous pistols if possible but unlikely) on the ASM would make the list stick to your theme but improve the overall balance and competitiveness.

You're tight on points though so to do this you'd need to drop something. Telion would be the most likely canidate from the SM list and combine the 2 scout squads in the BA list and trim them to perhaps 7 and use them as fire support. Really the only 'weak' links in the lists are doubling up on scouts and they are otherwise decent. Nice to see you not going for Pedro, too.

So, IMO if you are willing to trim the scouts down a bit from the BA to free up some points, I'd go with the BA list. If not, pretty easy to swap around things in the SM list whilst keeping the 2 scout squads as is.