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"Pink isn't a color. It's a lifestyle." - Chumbalaya
"...generalship should be informing list building." - Sir Biscuit
"I buy models with my excess money" - Valkyrie whilst a waitress leans over him

Sunday, September 19, 2010

Email in: A hello and a nid list for giggles

"Hi Kirby,

I have been enjoying your blog a lot of late, so much so that I decided to email you to say so (first time I've email anyone in the 40k blogsphere and I look at a lot of blogs). Keep up the good work, right now 3++ is the first place I check for updates on my daily surf sessions.

So like you I play Tyranids and like the new dex. Hard sometimes to convince people its a solid dex. Main argument I see is the reasoning that there's only one basic build. That might be true, but its still pretty early in codexes life cycle and I think there's alot to the dex that needs to be explored beyond just list hammer. I've been trying a few ideas out on units or combos I doubt anyone has tried, nothing really earthshattering though. Mostly lictors + trygon hive commander lists so far -- fun but as one would expect gimped in alot ways too.

Anyways, I had another build idea I was considering trying on vassal (never tried it though) as I would need about $200 in models to really play this. Thought I'd run it by you. Very possible its been posted here or in the blue shark tank but I don't recall quite the same list.

CnC is welcome.

Carnifex Wall

Tervigon: Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, Onslaught -- 195

2x Hive Guard -- 100
2x Hive Guard -- 100
2x Venomthrope -- 110

Tervigon: Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, Onslaught -- 195
10x Devgants -- 100
10x Devgants -- 100

2x Carnifexes: 2x Brainleech Worms -- 380
2x Carnifexes: 2x Brainleech Worms -- 380
2x Carnifexes: -- 320

Idea is sort of a play on the ork can wall I guess -- using the carnifex units to screen and provide cover for the units behind while getting a free cover save themselves. Maybe not as durable but it seems to have some key plusses over the long time ork fav.

I am not sold on the devgants. I put them in more for theme but was also thinking their 18" range would allow them to fire from behind the wall much like a shoota boy. I also have plans to make 20 spinegaunts I got in trade into dev gaunts with spare bits so that's a factor as well (the less termagants I have to buy and build the better!). Still considered dropping them down to termagants and making 2 units of 3 dakkafexes (or 3 units of two and just accpeting that one unit won't get onslaught). Actually quite a few variations one could do here, taking a tprime and moving the tervigon down to troops being one obvious change (or fiddling such that a 3rd carnifex is added to the stock unit).

The venomthrope is there more to try out. I like the idea of having a 5+ cover on the carni + the assault defense, but it seems easy to remove. I've heard a few folks having good luck with their venomthropes though and they are analagous to the kan wall this is emulating, so figured what the hell.

Its too bad tervies can't cast two powers, as I'd be all over using both on the dakkafexes. In this case the onslaught seems more worthwhile but perhaps not.

Anyways lemme know what ya think


--Dan Winters aka winterman"

Glad you enjoy the blog winterman! In regards to your list, I like it. It's not as competitive as a Fex-star list but having 6 Carnifexes bear down on you with Tervigons +HiveGuard backing them up is pretty scary. Let's streamline it a little bit. You identifed where you can shave points in the Devguants. They chuck out a lot of firepower but 2 Tervigons as Troops would be a lot more threatening and you've upgraded your Tervigons for the gants to be thrown into combat. Dropping them both to regular gants allows us to move the HQ Tervigon to Troops and chuck in a Prime with a coupleupgrades. He can hang with the Venomthropes to absorb wounds and provide the 5+ cover save on those fexes for longer.

If you wanted more than one army list out of the same models you could drop the two Brainleech Fex squads for T-Fexes. So as not to blow your budget out, use magnets on the fexes so you can swap over parts from T-Fexes to Brainleech Fexes though you'd need to think long and hard how you do that! You save some points, gain some ranged suppression firepower but still have the Fex aspect in the two CC Fexes. You can sink these extra points into another Tervigon + Gant combo, a Hive Tyrant + Tyrnat Guard deathstar or Harpies.

Regardless, I like your first list. It doesn't have the shooting firepower of your standard T6'R'Us list but has a lot of scary CC potential and decent enough shooting to get you there and pop some tanks.

3 pinkments:

Brother Loring said...

I'm not sold on the list to be honest. You're forking out a lot for your screen (in comparison to cheap ork cans) and as they're also your supression fire, you're paying a good deal for CCness and are going to be very slow.

Not sure about the Venoms either. If you're getting 4+ saves with the fexes by interlacing them, then you don't really need the cover they provide.

I don't think the codex is mono-build at all (look at all of the cool lists around), but mine just always go back to the same old one.

winterman said...

Hey thanks for the reply Kirby. Sorry I haven't replied for awhile, tried yesterday and the warp ate my post.

The list advice is exactly what I came up with after I sent the email. I've got a nicely converted Prime so I like that idea. I'd still like to get something behind the wall that is worth protecting other then tervigons but that may have to wait until 2500 point games.

@ Brother Loring, while the kans are cheaper the carnifexes do get some advantages for the cost. Also, while the kans are cheaper I think the non-wall options for the tyranids are generally better then the ork options (hive guard are better then lootas imo, tervigons are better then boyz imo as well), with only the KFF being all in all better then the venomthrope. Still, it does seem like there's little left that actually hunkers behind the wall.

As far as the slowness comment, that is why the tervigons have onslaught and gives the list an advantage over the kan list to some degree. Suppression-wise, if faced with a vehicle heavy list then suppression is fine until the fexes can engage them. In this respect I see this list as being much more agrressive then the kan wall -- it has to be because of the nature of the fexes and the inv save.

Also not sure how you are interlacing fex units to get a cover save, unless I am just misinterpreting the comment. Sure you can screen two of the units with one in front (thats actually the plan to some degree) but that still leaves one unit open to MLs and whatnot. Since the list goes with onslaught and not catalyst my thought is that 5+ save is worthwhile. Also makes the venomthrope less of a lynchpin.

Also I agree the nids probably aren't monobuild, but there's a pretty vocal majority that sees the hiveguard+tervigon+t-fex as the main build available to a competitive player. I haven't ran such an army outside of 1500 point test games so I can't say one way or another -- I do know every other build I have tried with my current models has been very unforgiving and prone to bad matchups.

Kirby said...

Not a problem winterman. I would go with the prime as you can chuck it in with the Venoms tomakethem more survivable and run the Tervis as Troops.

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