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Tuesday, October 5, 2010

Comparison: Lightning Claw and Power Weapon


Following a recent conversation on 3++ chat I thought it important to clarify this for the rest of the community. There are significant differences between different combat weapons specifically Lightning Claws (including Wolf Claws) and Power Weapons. Whilst both weapons ignore saves there are distinct and separate cases where they are more useful. This article looks at the specific differences and when each should be taken. Space Marines and their variants have the most ready access to both of these weapons (and more) on Sergeants, special models (I.e. Sang Priests, Wolf Guard, Vanguard, etc.) and characters so there is a lot of thought required to outfit your models. Let’s help out by identifying exactly what each weapon is for.

Power Weapons are sort of the ‘standard’ close combat specialist weapon and have the benefit of getting an extra close combat attack for two close combat weapons (I.e. pistol + sword). This makes it very effective at removing lower T/WS targets which is important for Space Marines in combat mode. Whilst WS/S/T4 generally is pretty damaging to lower WS/S/T models (who also usually have a bad save), the power weapon ads some effective combat punch without costing an arm and a leg. In a close combat army, the power weapon in a squad or single member is generally designed to deal with more numerous foes thanks to the extra attack and efficiency against lower T targets.

The Lightning Claw is a special close combat weapon and therefore cannot gain the +1A benefit for two close combat weapons unless you buy a pair. This is grossly inefficient so you are left with one less attack compared to Power Weapons. This is great when you are using something in your other hand so cannot get the bonus anyway such as a Storm Shield, meltagun, etc. However, the Claw has the added benefit of re-rolling failed wounds. When you run a bit of mathammer you find out this makes the Claw better than the Power Weapon at damaging units at a higher toughness than the user’s strength. Furthermore, they are roughly equal on toughness targets which are the same strength of the wielder and the Power Weapon edges the Claw on toughness targets which are lower than the strength of the wielder.

What this means is the Claw is much better at dealing with high T targets without having to pay the cost for Power Fists whilst also striking at initiative whilst the Power Weapon is better capable of dealing with normal and low T targets. This means, if your army is quite capable of dealing with high T targets through a bunch of Power Fists elsewhere (I.e. Terminators), you may be better off buying Power Weapons on models you are deciding to put a special combat weapon on. On the flip side, if you don’t have much potential to deal with high T targets in combat (I.e. only PFists on Sarges), LClaws might be a better buy for the army.

Both of these weapons also have an advantage over the PFist since they strike in initiative order. Whilst PFists are indubitably better at damaging high T targets such as Monstrous Creatures compared to the LClaw, the LClaw is still capable of whacking around infantry at initiative and is significantly cheaper. In the end a good mix of PFists and either LClaws or PW is the most well-rounded choice for combat oriented units.

This is often why I take LClaws on my Sanguinary Priests. Blood Angels generally are pretty decent at dealing with T3-4 simply through a large amount of S/I5 attacks and although I take PFists on my Sarges to help with MCs/Dreads in combat, the extra 3 LClaw attacks can really make a difference for basic squads against high toughness targets and since most BA armies are combat oriented, making sure you don't get stuck in CC against targets you are unlikely to kill is very important.

Comments (12)

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Angry Marine's avatar

Angry Marine · 758 weeks ago

Aye, part of the package is the raised Init, so it only makes sense for some units to use it effectively and a few fists to crack the nuts.

How do Wolf Claws fall into it then? Simliar role?
1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago
Wolf Claws are basically Lightning Claws on steroids. When you have the right number of attacks or strength, they are better than power weaopns because you can re-roll the initial misses and when you're up against tougher foes, your lightning claw ability comes into play, etc.
You forgot to mention the base number of attacks as a vital part of the discussion. 2 Attack base verses 3 with the extra cc means more than 3 attack plus charge giving 4 attacks instead of 5. The advantage for claws are better the more attacks you start with.
3 replies · active 757 weeks ago
Indeed this is based on 2A base forgot to mention.
LCs also get a slightly larger benefit from the charge as well, do they not?
Without running the math, yes as there are more attacks. I would imagine at 2A/3A respectively LC/PW (so a prolonged combat), the PW pips the LC at strength (i.e. S4 v T4), is still better against lower toughness targets (i.e. S4 v T3) and worse against higher toughness targets (i.e. S4 v T5).
I dislike lightning claws 'cause they look ugly.
It should be mentioned that lightning claws are better against same toughness targets. You lose the attack, but you still average more wounds with the reroll. The claw only gets better than the sword the higher the difference between the targets toughness and your strength. The only time the sword is superior is when fighting lower toughness targets.

If there's an option, you should always take the claw. You don't need more help slaughtering T3, high toughness is when special melee weapons are valuable.

Also, powerfists are the best at killing everything. Chaff, big stuff, tanks, and everything in between- the powerfist gets the most kills.
The power fist gets the most kills - but the power fist gets more of your guys killed. If you're paying the points for an initiative boost (hi FC!), the power fist has a hidden 'tax' of 18-36 points of dead marines that you didn't need to be paying.

Suddenly looks worse, neh?
LCs also get a slightly larger benefit from the charge as well, do they not?
Except that you don't save anyone in your squad unless your power weapon is actually going at a higher initiative than your opponent. Since most things you'll be fighting that matter are I4+, you don't really save any of your squad members by having I4. It's not really a "hidden tax" at all... the only real disadvantage to the powerfists lower initiative is that the unit can be killed before he can strike, and honestly, when that happens, killing people higher int he order doesn't change the end result.
1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago
Yet in both armies where the power weapon/lightning claw debate really rears it's head (Wolves and BA), BA do have the I bonus (and strength bonus) to benefit over the power fist and Wolves have the extra nifty Wolf Claw which evens out the scales against the power weapon thanks to re-rolls in the right situation. Sure a Powerfist is the 'jack of all trades' in it can whack infantry, ICs, MCs, Dreads and tanks but what it really comes down to is: what does your army need.

If you've got a bunch of powerfists on say Terminators, you want to grab some power weapons over lightning claws but if you've got a bunch of power weapons on Sanguinary Guard, you're going to want Power Fists or Lightning Claws. If you have no real concentrations of ignore armor units, a mix of power fists and lightning claws generally do it, etc.

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