Email in: Space Marine Dual Landraider

Tuesday, October 5, 2010

Email in: Space Marine Dual Landraider

Posted by Unknown

"Hey Kirby,

The other day I sent you an email about running terminators in a Blood Angel Army. You mentioned that Vanilla Marines do it better, I have been poking around your site, but haven't found any info on that. Would you mind sending me a link of where that is at?

Thanks,

Ashton"

I don't think I've actually got a dual LR list on here so I'm going to set it down in this post for you Ashton (and everyone else). THe main reason the BA double Termie list doesn't do as well as the Vanilla one is support. BA have less overall support because they have to pay a premimum on their tanks to make them go fast and BA Termies also want Sang Priests for the awesome FNP/FC bubble. So let's take a really quick look at SM Double Raider.

We'll start with a Libby w/Null & Gate, 10 TH/SS Terminators, dedicated LRC w/MM, EA and Heavy Support LRR w/EA. This uses up 1040 points. We'll add in some fire support with two Dakka Dreads (250) and two Dakka Preds (170) leaving us with 550 points to spend. Two tactical squads w/flamer/MM/Rhino would chew most of that up and leave just enough points for two MM/HF speeders. When you compare this to a BA Double Raider list, you've got more fire support and more midfield presence and although you lack FNP/FC on your Termies, you've got Null Zone. So here's the list in full (and there are other variants, this is just a basic template):

HQ -
Librarian w/Null Zone and Gate of Infinity

Elites -
Dreadnought w/2x TL-autocannons
Dreadnought w/2x TL-autocannons
10x TH/SS Terminators w/LRC w/Multi-melta, extra armor

Troops -
10x Tactical Marines w/flamer, multi-melta, Rhino
10x Tactical Marines w/flamer, multi-melta, Rhino

Fast Attack -
Land Speeder w/Heavy flamer, multi-melta
Land Speeder w/Heavy flamer, multi-melta

Heavy Support -
Predator w/Heavy Bolter sponsons
Predator w/Heavy Bolter sponsons
Land Raider Redeemer w/extra armor

Totals: 2000 points
10 tanks
31 infantry

Comments (24)

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Jason · 756 weeks ago

If you're equiping Tactical squads (yes I know that they're not regarded as a good unit option) do you prefer meltaguns or flamers as the squad weapon?
I understand that multi-meltas (although not the best on infantry) do offer the ability to actually destroy an armoured vehicle on a glancing 6 and ensure that no one will park a tank within 12 inches, which isn't bad for a free upgrade.

1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago

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fester40k 73p · 756 weeks ago

It depends... Look at the rest of your list, and consider if anti-tank or anti-horde is lacking.

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Jason · 756 weeks ago

Oh, and I just assembled a Librarian terminator with a storm shield to run (deep-strike) with my hammernator unit.
Plonking down a strength 10 AP1 shot when I hit the ground is a good way to upset someone, and 3++ means that a misfire isn't too bad.

2 replies · active 756 weeks ago

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Keith · 756 weeks ago

Apologies for being off topic a bit, but I'd like to see a pic of your Librarian if it's a cool conversion. I was thinking of making that exact unit.

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Jason · 756 weeks ago

It's not much of a conversion, I just realised that I could fit the long storm shield from the terminator box in the left hand of the librarian terminator. I used the Dark Angel storm shields on my Hammernators so I had the standard shields left over. I did trim off the triangle of plastic on the shield's wrist, and drill a hole for the bit of metal projecting from from the Librarians wrist to fit into the shield wrist (I'm not cutting expensive metal models after cutting off Njal's power armoured bird for a conversion, then losing it when I wanted to put it back together again).

I used some plastic cement to melt the join so there was a good interface and after the plastic had reset I stuck it on with super glue.

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Bart · 756 weeks ago

The pic doesn't link to anything? Curious abuot the old school Landraider.

2 replies · active less than 1 minute ago

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Bro_Lo 82p · 756 weeks ago

It's an old school (MK1) land raider. It's a pretty one, but there's not a lot more to be said...

Kirby failed to like the blog... nice one Kirby :P
http://fromthewarp.blogspot.com/2010/07/finishing...

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Kirby 118p · 756 weeks ago

woops. thanks brolo

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GWvsJohn · 756 weeks ago

Dual raider is one of my go to lists. I'd make a few small changes. The redeemer needs a MM. So you need to find 10 points. I've found that,while awesome, the speeders rarely get to fire that flamer. I'd drop both, use 10 for the MM and then put dozed blades on the rhinos. Those 2 tacs are your only scoring so they need to get where they're going. The dozers help a lot. You could also use those 10 to add MB, a combi-melta, upgrade the LRR to a LRC or change the dakkas to Typhoons.

Regardless, 2 rocks, Libby, 2 rhino-tacs and 2 riflemen is the base.

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Kris · 756 weeks ago

What about replacing the Riflemen with Sternguard? Viable?

1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago

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Bro_Lo 82p · 756 weeks ago

The riflemen and the Sternguard offer very different things. The Dreads are essential in this list for support/suppression fire. The Str7 shots are essential for damaging your opponents AV10/11 firesupport or meltaboxes.

The only alternative would be Las Sternguard in Rhinos (a favourite of VT2), but this is just not as cheap and pumps out fewer shots.

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Ashton · 756 weeks ago

Kirby,

Thanks for posting a reply!!! I was wondering, do you think with the release of Dark Eldar that BLack Templars and the "Blessed Hull" would make a viable 2 LRC list? it would negate the whole lance issue.

Ashton

1 reply · active 756 weeks ago

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Bro_Lo 82p · 756 weeks ago

Although 'all-comers' lists rarely need to adapt, the increasing presence of lance weapons (commonly seen in 'Nid and BA lists and soon to be a big player in DE lists), says to me that BT Raiders with Blessed Hull will be more common. However, MELTA weapons still are the daddy when it comes to AV14 wrecking and now DE have access to them too. So, it'll be worth testing, but at the end of the day, you still have 2 rocks with no decent invulnerable saves with BT *sadface*

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Kildash · 756 weeks ago

hey guys, Kildash here... i've sent kirby a very similar question a while ago, i'm sure a reply is coming soon... (though in fact if he posted it here, it'd work as well). It regarded Kris' question: Rifleman dreadz vs Sternguard-flameboxes

AND it also adresses the land raider types... but ok.

1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago

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Kirby 118p · 756 weeks ago

it's coming like....now :P.

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Digilante · 756 weeks ago

So with a list like this, are you allowed to Combat Squad the termies and deploy them in both the raiders? Or would you need to start one CS in the LRC and then embark the other in the LRR on your first turn (potentially opening them to enemy fire on turn one)?

2 replies · active 756 weeks ago

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Bro_Lo 82p · 756 weeks ago

As long as they deploy separately it's fine. No need to deploy outside of the LR.

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Kirby 118p · 756 weeks ago

Correct. Anything can depoy in the Heavy SUpport raider as it's not dedicated but only the Terminators can deploy in the Dedicated one because it's dedicated. This then allows you to start all 10 Termies in Raiders and add the Libby wherever.

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Steve · 756 weeks ago

I never see anyone using the dual Heavy Bolter Speeders, and I am not sure why. With a little tweaking to your list you could get:

HQ -
Librarian w/Null Zone and Gate of Infinity

Elites -
Dreadnought w/2x TL-autocannons
Dreadnought w/2x TL-autocannons
10x TH/SS Terminators w/LRC w/Multi-melta, extra armor

Troops -
10x Tactical Marines w/flamer, multi-melta, Rhino
10x Tactical Marines w/flamer, multi-melta, Rhino

Fast Attack -
Land Speeder w/2x Heavy Bolters
Land Speeder w/2x Heavy Bolters

Heavy Support -
Predator w/Heavy Bolter sponsons
Predator w/Heavy Bolter sponsons
Land Raider Crusader w/Multi-melta, extra armor

Totals: 2000 points
10 tanks
31 infantry

With this you lose the Deepstriking Multimeltas, but you make up for it with loads of 36" ranged dakka, and you get to take a Multimelta toting LRC instead of the naked Redeemer.

I understand that prevailing opinions on army design push for as much melta as possible, especially of the mobile type, but I have never had good luck with my two MM/HF Speeders. They are just too fragile to be counted on to get the job done. However, if they are re-purposed to provide longer ranged fire support perhaps they will survive longer while having more effect on the game.

2 replies · active 756 weeks ago

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Steve · 756 weeks ago

With the extra dakka provided by the Heavy Bolter Speeders, why not put Multimeltas on vehicles that actually have a chance of getting to the enemy? Drop the Riflemen and replace them with cheapass MM Dreads with DCCWs (as God intended). With the points saved you can buy one of the Dreads a Drop Pod, and give your aggressive Tac Squad a Meltagun.

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Kirby 118p · 756 weeks ago

if you did that, your army would split neatly down the middle. MM Dreads are good but Riflemen fit this list so much better. Issue with the HB speeders is S5... When it's S5 backed up by some S7 like a Dakka Pred, you can do some decent damage to AV10/11 but even on a fast platform, S5 is really only going to threaten AV10 and this list really wants AV11 popped which so many autocannons will do and can do against AV12 as well.

Ya single and aggressive speeders generally die quickly but if they deep-strike, throw a MM or HF shot out and then either attract fire or die, they've done a good job. They make your opponent think about them and if needed, can run interference, blocking, etc. as well but you lose firepower when you do this with 2x weapon system Speeders which you want to both shoot.

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Steve · 756 weeks ago

"S5 is really only going to threaten AV10 and this list really wants AV11 popped which so many autocannons will do and can do against AV12 as well."

It's like a ray of heavenly light broke through the clouds and bathed me in revelation. I must have seen that same point made a dozen times over, and now it finally sinks in.

In retrospect, DCCW Dreads are pretty redundant as well, I mean what are they gonna bring that ten Thundernators haven't already?

1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago

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Kirby 118p · 756 weeks ago

I am know to cause heavenly visions of pink...

They bring S10 and an AV12 walker but ya, not really needed here.