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Sunday, November 21, 2010

Land Raider Achilles Review & Analysis


New Forge World stuff; w00t. As usual the rules aren't too flash but importantly I think the special rules for this new battle tank open up the potential for some discussion in relation to tanks in 5th edition. Some of you may remember this was discussed on YTTH several months back and there have been some conversations on the CHATBAWKS since then about how tanks should be handled in 6th edition and their main issues currently. The Achilles is a perfect stepping stone for looking at those concepts again. So in this article we'll take a look at the Forge World rules for the Achilles and then next article look at vehicle operation under the current ruleset.

First off the rules can be found here; thanks Forge World and you can see the new model up there. First off, it's expensive, 40 points more than a normal Land Raider w/MM but importantly already includes extra armor (yay!). It also has the ability to take a dozer blade/seige shield which is really a big drawback for the normal Land Raider variants (who aren't Black Templars). However, then we start to notice the problems. Not an assault vehicle, capacity of a Razorback and only side doors... for 300 points this is a bit disappointing as that is the selling point of Land Raiders beyond the all-round AV14. This is very odd when you consider their special rule Ferromantic Invulnerability which covers very expensive tanks biggest weakness in 5th edition (see next article) in meltaguns. This means you can throw the tank forward and not be afraid of a 5pt meltagun slagging your 250pt+ behemoth...yet without an excessive transport capacity, assault vehicle and a weapon like the Thunderfire cannon, why would you want to get close? Sure it defends against lances at range, well yay. Glad I spent 300 points so I have a very difficult tank to kill against DE but still can't deliver my Terminators to the battle-line.

So that obvious and rather terrible bit of rules combination, the guns are pretty nice. Sponson TL-MMs with Power of the Machine Spirit gives you the option to reliably slag two tanks a turn or you can put out Thunderfire cannon shells into infantry whilst still having the MMs target a tank. Pretty good combination and isn't completely useless when immoblised early thanks to the range of the guns. The MMs also combine well with ferromantic invulnerability in being able to get into melta range whilst not suffering the same themselves. Again however, the lack of assault status and transport capacity (+ front ramp) leaves this unit a very expensive battle-tank which is very survivable but not really worth it (i.e. like the Monolith).

In terms of game balance the Achilles still suffers from railguns and S10 ordnance which quite a few armies have whilst also being nearly immune to some armies as it completely negates their primary heavy anti-tank. This generally isn't good as it puts a lot of armies in a similar boat to Orks in relation to dealing with AV14 (but just with the Achilles) and although it makes the Achilles not scared of actually getting close to enemy lines (even though it doesn't need to), I think there are better ways to make expensive tanks better equipped to handle such anti-tank weapons as meltaguns. This will be discussed next article.

Comments (34)

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Messanger of Death's avatar

Messanger of Death · 753 weeks ago

Who cares about the rules... it looks cool. I want two.

Messanger
Ok so you may not bring this tank to a tournament. This is something you bring out because it is damn cool. I'm adding it to my buy list.
This thing is a perfect example of why forgeworld requires opponent's consent to be used.
3 replies · active 753 weeks ago
More like an example of why FW shoudln't write rules on the first place.
My theory is that forgeworld's allowed to make rules so GW doesn't look like complete clowns.
Or that they make rules that are test rules for actual GW units, to test out the response/viability of the rule without all that pesky internal testing ("Does this seem like a good idea? Iffy, let's let FW have it").

Oh, and does anyone else think that this needs hurricane bolters and a points increase instead of transport capacity to avoid tacs-as-a-vehicle upgrade?

edit: VT beat me to it. I guess I retain my role as the sock puppet.
I think it looks pretty good -- even for the points -- if you instead see it as the world's most reliable scoring model (with 5 bolter guys inside), especially for objectives in your opponent's half, with more than respectable shooting to boot.
14 replies · active 752 weeks ago
Librarian.
3x5 tacs.
3 achilles with shields and stormbolters.

1330.
I challenge any and all 1500 point armies to duels.
This is the problem with the tank.
9x Broadsides; next! lol
Normally, the broadsides would just destroy everything ,but needing a 5+ to kill is, well...that's simply not okay.
God damn this 'raider.
Lucky you're getting 6-7 S10 AP1 hits which should result in ~one dead Achilles a turn (assuming no cover) for only ~900 points and those Achilles guns aren't exactly hurting the Broadsides.

Good old rock-paper-scissors.
I used to hate the silly drop pod that shoots d3 large blasts at all nearby units, but this is somehow more lame than that.
Hive Tyrant (OA, HVC)
3x2 Hive Guard
2x10 Termagant
2x Tervigon
2x Tyrannofex

Suck it up, chuckles.
The chance of dying against that is unacceptable.
Clearly, we must petion for forgeworld to make it so monsters don't get to roll extra dice.
Just ally a Monolith into your army and get it over with.
But that's not manly enough :(
Strap a monolith onto the barrel of your thunderfire and use it as a giant ring-pop drill?
I'm gonna call it 'the land raider ridiculous.'
1 commissar lord
2 min veteran squads
9 medusa siege cannons with bastion breacher rounds

1470pts I think
Damn.
The artillery's gonna ruin my day after smoke drops.
I'm almost tempted to field a Techmarine in order to ensure I don't get boned by a weapon destroyed result... Yay for my 500 point fluffy unit of death and uselessness.
1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago
That's actually a great idea.
So if you take my 1330 point list, and we add 3 techmarines for 150, the 'raiders won't ever die.

Unfortunately, the librarian will have to run towards the enemy on his own, but that's just him being a true hero.
They didn't cock up with lance. Lance is, at best, STR 10 AP N against vehicles.

Since T5 should mean something, not giving the eldar piles of STR 10 weapons seems like a good idea. STR 10 versus land raiders still only pens on 5s and 6s, and without the vdt boost, a lance has a 1/3 pen, 1/3 destroy vehicle, for 1/9 on each hit to end its life. Given BS4, a 7.4% chance to kill a LR doesn't seem insane.
I think this is good. I get all tingly around Landraider varients, and it adds another useful varient to a tank that has really only one useful varient (look at you, LRC).

VT2, like the scrubnubtardationasarusrex he is, wants to run three at 1300 points. Which is borken (dohoho), sort of, but if you read the description of the tank, it proclaims its one of the rarest varients around. Super-duper rare. Like four leaf clover rare.

So why not simply give it a 'You may only field one.' rule. Problem solved?

Here's hoping it pops up in a new dex' somewhere down the track.
2 replies · active less than 1 minute ago
Because it restricts sales and GW wouldn't want that. The only 'you may only field one' rules you will see will be for special characters unless GW reveres it's current model in actually making a good and balance gaming system.
It was a silly joke.
If I mass railguns/tyrannos/imperial artillery/chainfists/red librarians/whatever, I'll destroy them, but not all armies can do that, and releasing this thing is such a hilariously silly thing to do.

Kinda like the drop pods that unleash tons of large blasts, or the ones that let you charge after you touch down.
Whack a command squad inside and it's not a bad tank. But otherwise I see it's uses as limited.
2 replies · active 753 weeks ago
Erm how does a command squad make it better?
Just make it eternally scoring with tacticals or scouts.

Another idea is playing three with demonhunters.
Wonder if anyone will ever field 3 of them in a spearhead game with the 5+ inv save spearhead attached to them...

That'll cause a stir..
I personally think the Imperial Fists have a badly mismatched loadout - for the armor (similar to that of a Storm Raven) to ignore the effects of melta weapons...I think the Achilles should really take a cue from the LR Ares and just ditch the Thunderfire and go with a Demolisher Cannon and TLAC like the LR Ares. That Thunderfire is really better suited to the TL Lascannon sponsons on the original Land Raider since it'd be better matched in range.

If GW ever made the Achilles as a regular design...I'd hope they consider making it more focused than it's current loadout. Having it be the blending of the Ares' best features (main gun and the hull-mounted TLAC) with it's anti-melta armor and TLMM sponsons and just foregoing transport capacity would make this a great anti-armor linebreaker (and bunker buster in Planetstrike missions) to support other land raiders bringing in cargo.
surely with potms u can advance 12 inches and still fire off the thunderfire cannon then unleash the meltas when u get close to the enemies line? this vehicle to me is a very agressive looking vehicle from the rules ive seen. charge it into a sm army and nothing short of a chainfist will reliably scratch it, especially after u just reduced the sm players vindicator to molten slag? i mean u can advance 6' kill a tank and then pound an infantry unit. try using it as a linebreaker not an artillery piece

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