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Thursday, December 9, 2010

Immo Spam with IG Allies



So for some reason this morning edit: and never finished this post I got up and tried to make the most disgusting list I could for WH using IG allies. Why? Not sure but it seemed like a good idea and then I was able to convince Vince to play it against me today (rather than him using Nids for the first time, my Eldar or foot Guard)...results pending. Anyway the 1750 list is pretty brutal so I'll go through the development of the 2000 list and then scale it down as it is one of the lists which can do this rather well. Later on I might do a comparison article between this and the revised BA Flamestorm.

Anyway, both BA Flamestorm and Immo spam are based around through a lot of chassis at you which have Heavy Flamers which can be fired on the move (12") and contain little men and women who have meltaguns, bolters and 3+ saves. With the addition of the IG codex, WH were able to bring something the list sorely lacked: suppression fire thanks to Imperial Guard infantry platoons whilst BA Flamestorm is capable of doing this with Dreadnoughts and TL-assault cannons if desired. So the premise of this army is pretty simple, let's flesh it out.

We'll start with our core Immo spam style list and in a subsequent post I'll drop it down to 1750 and 1500. This means 3x Immolators in heavy support with 3x5x IST w/meltaguns for the cheap price of 405 (or the price of 3 exorcists). When combined with what else we get in the list this is going to give us 3 mobile scoring units (important) with meltaguns (important too but may be changed) on platforms which have side AV11 (important) and can move 12" and fire their twin-linked heavy flamer (important as well). Now some might argue the merits of Exorcists or not and I've looked at them here and here but it comes down to this. For the price of one Exorcist, I get a HWT w/3 autocannons and an Immolator. I'm taking the HWT and Immolator. More reliable firepower (always 6 shots) and then the usual arguments between gun tanks and infantry though this tank only has one gun so suffers a bit in comparison.

We then need to add more to our advancing AV11 wall of Immolators with...you guessed it, more Immolators. Recalling the tri-rhino tactic (or two), we want as many chassis moving forward as possible and since we are rotating them, want good side armor. Immolators are obviously perfect for this job as they can fire on the move and fry any occupants which get blasted out by the protected meltaguns. The cheapest way to get more Immolators and meltaguns? Celestians. A squad of 5 with 2 meltaguns and an Immolator sets us back an even 150. We'll take three of these bringing our total up to 855 points used with 6 Immolators and 12 meltaguns. We also need an HQ which is an easy choice with a cheap ass Palatine. Yes the extra 10 points for a Celestian gets you a lot but our army doesn't really use Faith or need the bonus statline buffs so we'll save 10 points. We have a couple of options here. We can give her a book of St. Lucius and she can sit in a bubble and act as a Lord Commissar (without Stealth though :() or grab her a Celestian retinue and add another Immolator to the list. For the moment we will stick with just the Book, setting us back 40 points (895).

Now here's the fun bit, adding in Infantry and what to do with Fast Attack. In a standard Immo spam list we grab Dominions with our FA slots but don't bring meltaguns with them and then a couple of 10 women SoB squads in Rhinos with more meltaguns. However, we're using Guard for our Troops outside of the ISTs so the SoB are out. Let's see how many autocannons we can get. Heavy Weapon Teams are the obvious bet but we also want a nice big juicy platoon and Chimeras. Why Chimeras? Well they aren't as useful for tri-rhinoing due to AV10 sides but they are very good at mech-training/self-blocking because they have AV12 on the front. You obviously need to protect their weak flanks but being able to screen Immos with AV12 is very useful and they also bring another heavy flamer and 2 S6 shots. So we'll start off the with Platoon Command squad, sticking them in a Chimera and we'll take a bunch of flamers. We could could replace these with meltaguns but BS3...eh we'll go with flamers for the moment. 100 gone (995). We'll then look at taking at least 3 infantry platoons with an autocannon (no Commissar for the moment). That's 180 and then 165 for three more Chimeras (1340). Now we still have a bunch of points to work with! We don't have any Exos so let's take the maximum HWT we can for one platoon. 5 HWT with autocannons sets us back a mere 300 points (1640) and we've still got quite a few points to play with (we're not even at 1750 yet!).

We probably need more advancing units however and as much as I'd like to have the Palatine give out a stubborn bubble, she gets a Celestian retinue with Immolator and meltaguns for 150 (1790). No we've got a few options here. We can cut back one of the HWT or Chimeras and grab 2x5x Dominions w/Immolator and have 30 points left (enough for 3 flamers or two meltaguns between the squads) which is an okay choice. We can also grab another Palatine/Celestian combo taking us to 1980 or we could add in another infantry squad w/AC + Commissar and add in another IST squad (book of St. Lucius for this) or with some point tweaking get two more infantry squads and Chimeras (need to lose 10 pts after dropping Book and a flamer from the PCS). Personally I'd lean towards the Dominion squads or two more infantry squads to up the vehicle number count. Adding the Infantry squads gives us:

Palatine w/5x Celestians w/2x meltaguns, Immolator
3x5x Celestians w/2x meltaguns, Immolator
PCS w/2x flamers, Chimera w/ML/HF
4x Infantry Platoon w/AC, Chimera w/ML/HF
5x HWT w/autocannons
3x5x IST w/2x meltaguns
3x Immolators

Totals: 1991 points
12 vehicles (7 Immolators, all w/Smokes)
73 infantry + 19 HWT

There you have it. A disgusting amount of firepower (38 S7 shots acorss 6-9 targets; 15 S6 shots across 5 targets) and a lot of armor moving towards you (12) with a bunch of meltaguns (14) and heavy flamers (7 twin-linked, 5 normal) and over 100 infantry wounds. Sold.

Edit: changed the list as I cannot add. I had the HWT priced at 65 points when they arein fact 75 per team. One infantry platoon/Chimera has been dropped. Only 12 vehicles at 2000 is a bit *sadface* so might need to re-work things...

Comments (20)

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you can't have more than half your army usuing allies, so you can't use 5 IG platoons. at most 3, and that only if also using 3 squads of Witchhunters troops options, since you also can't have more allied options in the list than you have regular codex forces.
amazingPhil's avatar

amazingPhil · 752 weeks ago

When I calculate that list it comes down to 2080 points. I double checked. I think you misscalculated the IG part (it's 1035 points).
AC, HWT are 75pts I think. So 5 would be 375, not 300.
I'm curious how you would deploy such an army, as shoulder to shoulder and with all foot inside the transports it would cover about 2/5 of a regular deployement zone or about twice the footprint of 180orks shoulder to shoulder.
How can you keep LOS open for the HWT?
6 replies · active 752 weeks ago
amazingPhil's avatar

amazingPhil · 752 weeks ago

AC HWT are 60. That's right
An IG Heavy Weapons Team is 60 points, un-upgraded with Mortars, and an additional 15 points for Autocannon for all three models. How are we to trust your mad L33T listbuilding skillz, yo, with these kind of errors?

I would favor more Dominions in Immolators with 2 Meltas (the exact same cost as a similarly equipped Celestian unit) and place the IG in much more of a support role rather than having one inducted IG unit take up about half the points in a ostensibly Sisters of Battle list.
amazingPhil's avatar

amazingPhil · 752 weeks ago

You are right. Still my calculation is correct, as I did it with Onlinecodex.
>.< thanks for pointing this out guys. Silly me for going "5 points for 3 autocannons!" and calling them 65 a pop lol. I blame Dethtron. I've edited the above post and added a comment fixing it.
Check the recent bat-rep. It's 1750 so not as many tanks moving forward or infantry sitting around, but Vince was able to keep firing lanes clear early game and move forward and have quite a lot of room in the back. Remember you don't always have to combine squads so you can have your autocannons sticking out at some odd places and 8 infantry conga lining back into cover. Against a list with good combat or anti-infantry with lots of blasts you'd need to take up more room obviously but sometimes there's no avoiding getting templated or blasted.
I can see how to make it work at 1750 with 2 exorcists, since he only has 8 forward tanks, and the exorcists can fire over tanks.

With 12 forward tanks, and 5 HWT instead of 3... you either have to use 4 tanks deep trains (reducing impact) or use 4 trains, reducing a lot the fire lanes.

I'm curious : do you still think an immo+HWT is better than a single exorcist after that game?
ok, just checked the rules again, to be sure. the severe restrictions are using WH in guard lists, WH codex for a WH based list states all minimum requirements must be taken from the main codex (WH), so you have to take a minimum of 1 HQ and 2 troops from the WH codex. so at best, you can only take 4 IG platoons...and have to take 2 units of sisters or inq stromtroops..
3 replies · active 752 weeks ago
It must be a typo. It's probably 1 Infantry Platoon that he has included that consists of: 1 Platoon Command Squad, 5 Infantry Squads and 5 Heavy Weapon Squads. All this just takes up 1 FOC slot for troops.
The Antipope is correct... hence the 3 IST squads. Wouldn't be possible with 5 platoons.
*nod*; just one big platoon.
"For want of a nail, the kingdom was lost..."

No Smoke Launchers on the Immolators = Big EXPLOITABLE Mistake.

The most difficult thing with Immolator Spam is getting all those tanks across the board to effective Tank Shocking and Twin-Heavy Flamer & double Melta range. Weathering all of the opponents firepower for two turns (at least) is vital. Even by screening all the Immolators with Chimeras (which have Smoke launchers inherently) in the first turn, it is doubtful enough Immolators will be in range to accomplish much damage in the 8" away from their hulls the Flamer Template can reach in turn 2. They will (not might, not may, not perhaps, but WILL) need to use Smoke launchers, terrain, and line of sight shenanigans to survive into turn 3 when it's time to throw some Heretics on the 'barbie...

Praise the Emperor and pass the promethium.
1 reply · active 752 weeks ago
Smoke launchers aren't a necessity. They certainly help but since we've got Chimeras with smoke launchers and they should be leading anyway and we protecting their side armor with more chimeras or Immolators + terrain, appropriate mech movement should easily get you within firing range without needing smokes. they are a luxury and very nice to have but not necessary. Since I've miss-added though we can easily add them in with the extra points found.
HWT with mortars are at 60, you need to fork 15 more for an AC HWT in my codex.
How are you firing the heavy flamers at a 12 inch move? the track isn't a fast vehicle.
2 replies · active 752 weeks ago
Immolators have a special rule allowing moving 12 and firing the HF.
wow......been playing all this time....
Yes I've done the math wrong again, sigh. I always do this :P. I counted HWTs as 65 instead of 75; I'm not getting 2080 though...

Here it is points order from the above list:
35+13*5+20+65+3*(13*5+20+65)+30+10+55+4*(50+10+55)+50+55+5*75+3*70+3*65 = 2075

So we drop the Infantry Platoon without an AC and associated Chimera taking us to 1970 and can go from there. Can add smoke launchers to the Immolators as desired or chuck in some more flamer/meltaguns into the IG.

Sorry again >.<.

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