Kirb your enthusiasm!


"Pink isn't a color. It's a lifestyle." - Chumbalaya
"...generalship should be informing list building." - Sir Biscuit
"I buy models with my excess money" - Valkyrie whilst a waitress leans over him

Friday, January 28, 2011

Email in: Blood Angels Advice [Some 40k questions]

I'm going to do this email a bit differently as there are a lot of questions. I shall answer them as I go along. Italics = emailer.

"Hi Kirby, I’m a big fan of your blog as most of the articles there are thought out enough to learn something from ;)

I have a lot of questions to run by you and any answers are greatly appreciated. Most of the lists posted as well as the tweaks you provide seem to follow certain rules but those rules are never quite clear. I was hoping you could expand on them.

Most lists post their model count, is there a goal to get X infantry and Y vehicles? If so what are those numbers or is it a ratio that is desired? There is also some desire to bring N str 8+ weapons as well a M str 7+ higher rate of fire weapons (like autocannons). I recognize the need to bring vehicle breakers as well as suppressive fire weapons, but how do you decide how many is enough? Or more accurately, what makes you decide you don’t have enough?

Not really, it's just for personal benefit as I always like to know how much my opponent has to kill. When you get obscenely high numbers in one (like 12+ tanks or 50+ infantry) it's a nice fun little stat. Most of the time however you don't want low numbers in either though this obviously depends on the points limit. Low numbers (i.e. 1 or 2 tanks) generally means they are easy targets or you don't have durable scoring (low infantry).

With regards to weapons...well a lot. It's like comparing two units where one isn't really bad but the other one is just plain better. There's a lot of input going in and it can be difficult to explain how you get the exact result with a valid explanation. For firepower though you generally need the type of firepower you have to fit how the army plays. If the army wants to get in your face having a bunch of meltaguns backed up by autocannons is great but don't take too many autocannons or the in your face element weakens too much to actually be scary. A good test is to see how you would feel going up against a heavy mech or foot list; do you have the firepower to reliably deal with them? What about against specific army templates? If you see weaknesses (i.e. a fair amount of meltaguns but no suppression fire and not enough meltaguns to reliably drop 10+ tanks every game), you need to tweak your list.

Space Marine specific questions:
MM\HF Land Speeders are the most common to show up, why not MM\Typhoon?

HB/Typhoons are great but often not what lists need (fast melta). They fulfil different roles but are excellent platforms both. The MM/Typhoon is a much bigger target and more expensive for a fast melta platform but still usable.

Anytime a Stormraven is mentioned it’s always TL-MM and TL-PC. Why the Plasma Cannon over the Assault Cannon?

I generally run mine with Hurricane Bolters as well. Between the TL-MM/Bloodstrikes and TL-PC/Hurricane and PotMS you'll always have one weapon to fire at a specific type (tank or infantry) and two others to fire at another type depending upon speed. This also makes the Raven still maintain it's duality role even after 1 or 2 weapon destroyed results. It's not set in stone however and obviously depends on what else you have in your army.

You generally combat squad your ASM squads to provide more melta on targets, what are your thoughts on keeping them one unit? I like to run them full size as it increases my chances of landing a multi-assault.

If you deep-strike them, split them up. When they start on the table you can go either or and each obviously has it's own advantages. Keeping them whole means they are going to take less morale checks, are harder to torrent away/put wounds on specials and are better off in larger combats, etc. Smaller squads give better fire potential, more mobility and scoring power. In the end it all depends on your opponent, their list and army style and the deployment type for the army. Take the advantages for each and apply them to the scenario for each battle and which one is most likely going to benefit you the most?

Anytime a librarian is in a list you recommend Blood Lance, why? I’ve never been in a position where it would be any more effective than an inferno pistol. What am I missing?

Maybe your opponents are smart and spreading their mech out. This means you are able to isolate parts of their army easier which is good. If they don't spread out they get blasted by a lot of lance hits. In mech lists this power sometimes isn't as good as it's harder to get advantageous deployments for it (unlike when you are deep-striking) but in Jumper lists it really is amazing for it's anti-castling effect.

Attached is a list I like to run, which includes a lot of things people on your blog seem to hate (Death Company, single Stormraven, a lone drop pod dread, etc.) Can you provide feedback on the list but more specifically why you would make the changes? I guess I’m asking for what issues have you run into with the unit choices that made you decide they weren’t worth it.

Edit list in:
Furioso w/Blood Talons, HF
2x Priest w/JP, power weapon
10x DC, 2x power weapon, 1x PFist, 1x infernous pistol
2x 10x ASM w/2x meltagun, PFist
MM/HF Speeder
Dreadnought w/2x TL-AC
Stormraven w/TL MM, TL AC

The strategy of the list:
If I have first turn deploy the Stormraven w/ DC and Furioso in the middle of my deployment zone so it can flat out and reach most of the table. Flank it by the land speeders and either put the ASM on the flanks or hold them in reserve depending on my opponents lists. Then first turn its blast the raven into the middle of their army. The idea is I’ve now forced them to bring everything to bare to deal with it or die. I’m expecting to lose the raven and the death company by the end of the game. Even with the loss of the raven and a few DC on their turn I’m still in position for a turn two death company charge (usually multi-charge as they can’t move everything far enough away fast enough) as well as a furioso charge. I drop the rifle dread along a flank in the best position for side shots against their scariest heavy weapon vehicles and bring up the land speeders to suppress other vehicles. Then the ASM come up the flanks or DS in and provide clean up \ counter the counter charge.

If I have second turn it’s the same idea except I’ll hide the raven if there is enough LOS blocking terrain or hold it in reserve.

Against horde armies I spend a turn or two whittling away with ranged fire then charge into whatever I’ve weakened.

I apologize for the long rambling email and thank you in advance for any answers and feedback.

- Andrew"

Okay back to normal replying :P. The main issue with one of everything is you have no duality. Whilst you can create duality with other units of similar roles (i.e. Typhoon v Rifledread) the majority of your army outside of the ASM is sort of 1 and done; particularly the Stormraven + DC + Dread. The issue with this unit is what if the Raven gets shot down early (and you should never be able to hide it; ever. If people play with terrain that big...well, ya you should never be able to hide it; it's just too high off the ground) 1/4 of your army grinds to a halt.

With that in mind you need to decide what your army wants to do. In terms of competitiveness it has the tools there generally for the job but most lists are capable of stopping those tools from doing their job because there aren't enough back-ups so to speak. Personally I'd go with Ravens + Typhoons + Furioso Dreads + ASM. The ASM run along normally whilst the Dreads hope into the Ravens (this stops them being huge point sinks) whilst the Typhoons and Ravens are mobile fire support and armor saturation. You've then got your duality whilst keeping the key concepts of the list (only the DC have been dropped and you could if you wish take a unit and DoA them in or even try for three Stormravens and have them in the 3rd but this might only work at 2000 points). In the end to improve your list you have to drop something and develop a focus. Balance can be achieved with a little bit of everything (variety) but the list needs to have a core concept on which to build.

Hope that helps Andrew and shoot any more questions you have.

P.S. to everyone, a Stormraven article is coming.

Follow us on Facebook!

Related Posts Plugin for WordPress, Blogger...