Today I got an e-mail about a comped tournament in New Zealand called Battlecry (I think this is the link; please inform me if this is incorrect). I was e-mailed by the Tournament winner, which seems odd considering the title of the e-mail. Then I read it... Let's see what you think...
"I've just won a tournament and I really don't deserve it.
The breakdown of the tournament was:
40% Battlescore
20% Sports
15% painting
25% Comp.
The problem is this, The guy who should have won the whole thing won all 6 games and only dropped 2 bonus points, so 88/90, he got a 2/5 for comp. I had 3 wins, 2 draws and a loss with 67/90 Battle points, but pulled a 5/5 comp. Because of this I won the tournament... The following is my list, which in my opinion deserves a 3-3.5.
Sammael - Land Speeder
Interrogator Chaplain - Fist, Bike
6 man bike squad - Fist, Apoth, Banner, Plasma gun x2, Attack bike MM
6 man bike squad - meltagun x2, Attack bike MM
3 man bike squad - meltagun x2, Attack bike MM
3 man bike squad - meltagun x2, Attack bike MM
3 man bike squad - meltagun x2, Attack bike MM
Land speeder typhoon, MM
Land speeder typhoon, MM
Land speeder typhoon, MM
So 16 Melta shots and 6 missiles per turn...
My problem is that comp is so subjective, what some people perceive is good other think are rubbish. So my army, which is good, got a great comp score that it didn't deserve and as a result I won the tournament. Over a guy who won all six games... fair? no."
First congratulations for obviously doing well in sports and painting and having a good army list get 5/5 comp (you bribed the judges right?) as well as your wins on the day(s). As was pointed out though by the e-mailer...the guy who goes 6-0 doesn't win? Ouch (he does come 2nd overall I believe). Not to mention the e-mailers list is actually quite good and by no means a 5/5 no matter how you shake the proverbial pointy stick. Poor form indeed.
I asked the e-mailer for more info (and pictures of his army which you can see in this post) and got this in return:
"Yeah if you want to post it go for it, pic's attached including some of my conversions =)
You were close, it was a New Zealand tournament called Battlecry, the second biggest tournament we run in the country with 50 players. The guy who won 6 games ended up second. I've attached the players pack for the tournament as well, though the missions were only given on the day (something I have a huge beef with because some missions can greatly disadvantage some army's) The missions were (from memory):
Mission 1: Kill Points, Pitched Battle.
Mission 2: 5 objectives taking turns to deploy each (as in rulebook), Dawn of War.
Mission 3: Spearhead, one objective in the center of the table, one in the center of the unused table quarters.
Mission 4: Pitched Battle, beginning of player 2 one objective drops 12D6 from the players left or right randomly decided. Turn 3,4,5 one objective lands 3D6 away from the last objective placed untill turn 5 or one lands off the table.
Mission 5: Pitched Battle, Victory points, night fight turns 2+
Mission 6: Table quarters but cant deploy within 18" of the center. One objective in the center of the table, which can be contested as normal...
Excuse the shorthand.
Kjeldorian.
P.S. yes that is a bike rail grinding =D"
First, cool models. It's nice to see a fully painted bike army =D. I think I've got the right weblink up for the website of the tournament as I cannot attach the sent document (though if this weblink could be confirmed that would be nice). Secondly, agree very much regarding missions. For any prospective TO's out there, this is a huge no-no. Give the missions first and don't make them random (like Mission 4) or complete bollocks for some armies (like Mission 5) or super easy to draw (like mission 6).
Anyway, this isn't a place for flaming comp (so shut up VT2 ^^) but I thought it was important to publish for a couple of reasons.
1) Come on. Painted bike army. Do I need more reasons?
2) It's a prime example of someone who did 'worse' than someone (and not by a tiny amount in terms of wins on the day) and got handed the 1st place trophy. And this person felt it was unjust.
3) No matter how you look at comp, it ends up being subjective. A good army list got full comp. Go figure.
4) Painted bikes!
MarshalLaeroth 52p · 737 weeks ago
Kjeldorian · 737 weeks ago
Yeah the link is correct =)
Tratchenberg · 737 weeks ago
Played against the guy who sent the email a week before in another tournament, great game (drop podding dreads if you read this).
Kjeldorian · 737 weeks ago
Tratchenberg · 737 weeks ago
bob bitchtits · 737 weeks ago
fester40k 73p · 737 weeks ago
Wow. thats... umm... silly.
Panel comp I can handle, where 4 experienced players work it out.
Peer comp I can handle (as I always make people comp score BEFORE the first dice roll).
But TO comp, with such a huge weighting... ouch.
@KingGorak · 737 weeks ago
devilinmypocket 36p · 737 weeks ago
Personally, I'd rather see comp done away with and just put up a set guideline of what you want to see out of lists. Like, 'You can't take three of the same option unless it's a troop' or whatever the heck they are looking to keep away from the tables.
blaise · 737 weeks ago
devilinmypocket 36p · 737 weeks ago
bob bitchtits · 737 weeks ago
only one of each special character could be taken over the hole tourny except for baliel and samuel.
So if you played dante wing and some else got thier army in first that ran dante then you cry
N.I.B. · 737 weeks ago
Kjeldorian · 737 weeks ago
ORKS (the guys who came second)
Warboss, Powerklaw
Bik Mek - Kustom Force Field
Gretchin x20
12 Trukk Boys - Boss, Pole, Klaw
30 Shoota Boyz - 3 big shootas, boss, klaw
30 Shoota Boyz - 3 big shootas, boss, klaw
Mega Nobz x8 wound allocated as much as possible
3 Killa Kans (not sure on weapons sorry)
3 Killa Kans (not sure on weapons sorry)
Battlewagon
4 Deffkopta's, 1x Buzzclaw
TYRANIDS (ended up 4th or 5th)
Hive Tyrant, Pyroxism, lash whip bonesword, old adversary, regen, leech essence, scything talons
tryant guard x2 - lash whips
Hive guard x3
Hive guard x3
Ymgarls x6
Tervigon x2 - adrenal glands, toxin sacs, stinger salvo, dominion, catalyst
termagants x10
termagants x10
Shrikes x3 - pair of boneswords, adrenal glands
Trygon x2 - adrenal glands
ELDAR
Eldrad
Avatar
9 Banshees, exarch, executioner
wave serpent, Spirit stones, linked scatter lasers
5 fire dragons
18 storm guardians - 2 flamers, warlock, enhance
5 dire avengers
10 storm guardians 2flamers
wave serpent, spirit stones, linked missile launcher
3 jetbikes, 1x cannon
Falcon, holo fields, spirit stones bright lance
Falcon, holo fields, spirit stones bright lance
3x war walkers, 6x scatter lasers
Hope you had fun guessing... If you said:
Orks 2/5
Tyranids 3/5
Eldar 1/5
you are correct, and insane and should never mark comp, EVER!
Tratchenberg · 737 weeks ago
For the record that ork list is pretty much romping through the tourney scene in NZ. Won the tournament the week before.
blaise · 737 weeks ago
In NZ the standard has been panel comp of late so seeing that this was TO comp (with a TO with very strong opinions on how the game is "supposed" to be played) I'm not surprised with the results. Disappointed, but not surprised.
But definitely, the bike list is stronger than it lets on, the Ork list is a list everyone has seen and has a certain "aura" around it. I can't believe that eldar list got 1 out of 5.
WTF.
Tratchenberg · 737 weeks ago
Warboss Stalin · 737 weeks ago
Bro_Lo 82p · 737 weeks ago
Let me guess, the 5th Ed Rulebook and codices hasn't reached NZ yet??
Kjeldorian · 737 weeks ago
Bro_Lo 82p · 737 weeks ago
What are you talking about. Don't you still have hobbits living down there. Hobbits are all but extinct in the rest of the world my friend. Don't worry, I'll get some 5th Ed. codices in the post. You do have post right?
;)
Kirby 118p · 737 weeks ago
abusepuppy 121p · 737 weeks ago
blaise · 737 weeks ago
Now, to the emailer's credit I saw his army and his list at Equinox and was impressed with it and his play of them. I think it's a bit of a sleeper list in NZ because no one's taken a bike list like this in the recent past, but a 5/5 on comp seems a bit high.
Benjamin Order · 737 weeks ago
Proximity · 737 weeks ago
Comp tends to be purely about army power these days over here, they've separated theme from power, so it was just a misjudgment of power. I'm not going to try guess where they were coming from, as they got the vast majority of armies seriously wrong over the event. Im convinced that the ones that were scored properly, were scored that way by accident. Probability works out that you couldnt possibly get them all wrong.
As to my list, whats mentioned here is mostly right, a few changes though,
I also had 5 lootas (because it was 1850), and it was only 11 grots and a runtherd, not 20. The kans are one unit of big shootas, one unit of grotzookas.
In truth, I get a lot more milage out of the big shootas, and prefer them. The grotzookas are just there to make people afraid to bunch up when they get in close to my army. They then spread out, and leave units too close to each other, allowing me to multicharge and kill 2+ units where I would otherwise only get to kill one. The grotzookas very rarely do much killing, they're just there to help me make an opponent play in a way he isnt comfortable with.
Also there isnt much wound allocation you can do with meganobs, its just 6 normal meganobs, 1 kombi-rokkit, 1 kombi-skorcha.
The list started off very differently, and wound up as it is based on a couple of bits of feedback, and a math comp criteria tournament over in Australia.
The tournament at the time started comp hitting after 8 vehicles, so i set that as the limit (and have exactly 8). Feedback from people was that a single trukk is a bit shit, you either take a lot, so you can afford to have them blow up everytime someone sneezes at it, or you dont take any. In truth it quite often plays out exactly that way too - the number of times this has blown up on the first shot of the game is hilarious.
The deffkoptas were originally buggies that I would use to zoom infront of landraiders and block them from moving forward for a turn. To cut down to the 8 vehicles I lost this utility, but gained a sometimes worthwhile alpha strike. I generally run with pretty much no long ranged anti tank so they can help with at least one vehicle a lot of the time :D
The meganobs went in after suggestions that because I was painting them yellow, meganobs might be a bit better suited over regular nobs. Personally I think the regular nobs are far more versatile, almost the same survivability vs normal attacks, better survivability against ap2/1 or power weapons, meanwhile the all power klaws on the meganobs are almost always overkill, while you can still have a large number of klaws on the regular nobs and be at a higher weaponskill for like 5 extra points.
In the times I've played against my own army, or against others with meganobs, I've found them to be reasonably easy to counter.
I've probably played somewhere in the vicinity of 300 games with them now. I'm still not really bored with them to be honest, because there's so many ways to play that list. I have a lot of games where I never cross half way, and it becomes a game about board control and mediocre shooting but at the right priorities. I normally have at least a couple of games each tourney where the meganobs chalk up a grand total of 0 points, and depending on what type of army I'm facing it requires such radically different approaches to the game. I can never use the same tactics regardless of opponent, or it all just falls to custard.
I would most likely have been playing another finished army by now, except that the army I picked up and got half way through was Guard. There's just too much hate out there for them at the moment, that I dont think I would get any joy from playing them at all. I'm so swamped with work at the moment that starting from scratch hasn't been an option - and when I'm not studying stuff for work or having some level of interaction with my wife, I have 2 siberian huskies running me ragged. I'd like to get a wolves army done up this year with a couple of thunderwolf cavalry painted up to look like my dogs, but we'll see if I have the time :/
I did a battle report for the event which can be found here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/3... if anyone was interested.
Not a bad little blog here, I'm quite fond of it actually! I hadn't stumbled across it before until someone mentioned it on my facebook this evening D:
- Charlie
Bro_Lo 82p · 737 weeks ago
Welcome Proximity!
Kirby 118p · 737 weeks ago
*waves to the kiwi* Glad you like it and congrats on going 6-0.
Proximity · 737 weeks ago
However it works out, I think next month is probably the last month for the orskies D:
Kjeldorian · 737 weeks ago
Joe · 737 weeks ago
A random pleb going 'ooooh nice army 5/5' isn't comp. It's a random judging award. If I wanted to win I'd never go to such a tournament as it seems rather arbitrary.
Ixe · 737 weeks ago
bob bitchtits · 737 weeks ago
Not sure about the rest of the world but down here regular tourny players host tournys.
The T O might have been a tourny player in the past but i havent seen him lately.
abusepuppy 121p · 737 weeks ago
bob bitchtits · 737 weeks ago
I just wanna say in response to your thread on dakka that you are what i believe the appitome of a great tourny player.
And i mean that in that you are one of the chillist , friendliest guys in this game and im dissapponted i didnt come to the last two tournies because you crack me up.
I look forward to more mexican with you bro
Proximity · 737 weeks ago
bob bitchtits · 737 weeks ago
Grovel · 737 weeks ago
Shadowmancer · 737 weeks ago
Kjeldorian · 737 weeks ago