Hi AbusePuppy,
writing you again. First the bad news:
Unfortunately the tournament I wanted to go to was immediately full and I too slow,
so I missed my chance. I don't know when my next Chance will be, but at least I
was abel to get some pratice games in and I have that camera for the next time!
The list worked great, but there were some problems,
that occured mostly in my games against IG/Tank Company.
While I didn't lost any of those games (One was a Draw as my Tervigon was unable to penetrate an immobilized Chimeara...Curses!) it made me question my choices.
Mostly due to pie plates of S8+ death.
Even if my enemy was shooting something else like Hive Guard the Tyranid Warriors/Venomthrophes had to throw themself to ground to survive. No problem with the Venoms, but the Warriors had no option but to stay back and watch things happen.
Therefore the Alpha joined the Venoms to prolong their life, which didn't help the Warrior's cause.
The other problem with the Venoms was, that I found it hard to cover large amounts of my army with them without bunching up to much. Which also would make them more susceptible to death pie.
Aside from that they performed great so it's not like I don't want to keep them but it made me think about taking a Hive Tyrant again.
With him the list would look like this:
*************** 1 HQ ***************
Hivetyrant
- Tentacle whip and Bonesword
- Heavy Venomcannon
- Old Adversary
- Life leech
- Paroxysm
- - - > 220 Punkte
3 Tyrantguard
- Tentacle whip
- - - > 195 Punkte
*************** 3 Elite ***************
2 Hive Guards
- - - > 100 points
2 Hive Guards
- - - > 100 points
2 Hive Guards
- - - > 100 points
*************** 5 Troop***************
10 Termagaunts, Fleshborers
- - - > 60 points
10 Termagaunts, Fleshborers
- - - > 50 points
Tervigon, Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, Catalyst, Onslaught, Cluster Spines
- - - > 210 points
Tervigon, Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, Catalyst, Onslaught, Cluster Spines
- - - > 210 points
*************** 3 Heavy Support ***************
Tyrannofex, Rupture Cannon, Cluster Spines, Desiccator Larvae
- - - > 265 points
Tyrannofex, Rupture Cannon, Cluster Spines, Desiccator Larvae
- - > 265 points
Tyrannofex, Rupture Cannon, Cluster Spines, Desiccator Larvae
- - - > 265 points
Total points Tyranids : 2000
You mentioned that you normally play a Tyrant, but I'm really torn on this issue.
I like both lists, but now I think the Tyrant through his abilities would be able to compensate
for the loss in choppiness that the Warriors grant me. (Of course I would still take them for a walk every so often.)
Unfortunately it also costs me the Venoms. On the other hand the thought of 52 wounds with Toughness 6 tickles me pink, so to speak.
So what do you think would be better in this list? Tyrant or Warriors+Venoms?
And is the general setup of the Hive Tyrant ok even without the carapace?
Regards,
Robin "Link-Hero-1"
Hallo, Robin, sorry to hear about your struggles with Imperial Guard- to tell you the truth, they are a very tough matchup for Tyranids sometimes, but hardly an unwinnable one, so don't get discouraged, just remember that IG are very vulnerable once you shake/stun their transports.
Here, I think, is part of your problem- three Tyrannofexes is perhaps a bit excessive. They are mostly used to screen other MCs, but two will do the job fairly nicely. Certainly, if you really hate Vendettas, Eldar, and Dark Eldar you could keep them, but you may want to look at other options- Harpies, for example, bring very accurate suppression fire and are very fast. Additional Hive Guard might help you as well, since with only two per squad it's quite possible to miss with them.
I think the inclusion of a Tyrant is an excellent addition to the list, although its benefits against Imperial Guard are going to be limited, since a guy like that is basically overkill against anything they have. However, he is very resilient with his Guard and he can bring several useful powers. The Heavy Venom Cannon, despite how much many people whine about it, can actually be quite useful in keeping enemy tanks quiet- obviously you don't want to shoot it at a Leman Russ, but Chimeras will find it incredibly annoying to see on top of everything else. Old Adversary is an incredible force multiplier, making your whole army twice as dangerous in assault and mitigating the WS3 on many of your units; as I said, not as much of a deal against IG, but still useful.
One other thing you might consider tinkering with to improve the Tyrant is your selection of psychic powers. Obviously Paroxysm is amazing and you can't really ask for better there, but your "backup" power actually gives you two choices. Leech Essence is my default and by far the better of the two, and against Guard it can realistically get you back a wound or two per shot, which is nice. However, it doesn't mesh well with the Heavy Venom Cannon, as they want to be shooting at different targets. Psychic Scream is a weird choice, but opens up some interesting options- as it lets you hit multiple units, it can be good in the late stages of the game when you've gotten into their lines and opened up some transports and are trying to wreak maximum havoc. It also is a psychic shooting attack that targets every unit in range- this is important because it allows us to set the power off without restricting our charges any. You can use Psychic Scream, force Ld tests on a couple squads, shoot a tank with your Heavy Venom Cannon, and then charge one of the squads without having to try multiassault tricks. It's not an auto-include, but you may want to consider it.
I am very much not a fan of running two psychic powers on Tervigons- in my eyes, one of them will be wasted every turn, as you can't use both, and most of the time your list will define which you're going to want most of the time. Worst case, you can just split your Tervigons to have one with one power and one with the other; you're already investing quite a few points in something that is going to be a high-priority target for the enemy, I would be wary of spending even more. My recommendation would be Catalyst+Catalyst or Catalyst+Onslaught for your setup.
Another option to consider would be adding Hive Commander to the Tyrant, which I find to be very useful sometimes. It enables you to outflank a Tervigon, depositing an unpleasant surprise into people's backlines in games where it is necessary, and it also lets you play an all-reserve game when necessary (such as against Guard in a Spearhead deployment, which is very unfavorable for you otherwise.)
Tyranid Warriors, as you noted, can be at a big disadvantage in games with Imperial Guard, but if you keep them cheap (Deathspitters and Venom Cannon being my preferred setup) they can make a nice Synapse link and scoring unit. They aren't particularly necessary in a list the way you seem to be running it, however, so you'll probably be fine without them. Just remember when building lists that the enemy shooting Missile Launchers at 30pt models in cover is not actually all that great a plan for him.
So you can shave a few points as above and buy yourself some more anti-tank of one kind or another; you could also invest into some anti-infantry to punish the Guardsmen when they get out of their boxes; giving Termagants Devourers, taking Biovores, or a large squad of Hormagaunts/Gargoyles are all options here. Even adding a third Tervigon could work, as they generate a constant stream of threats that will usually trump Guardsmen in a fight thanks to their buffs.
