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Friday, June 3, 2011

Fallacy 40k - Trading Units


There was a recent discussion (two weeks ago now) on the chatbawks involving an Anon, Mike, myself, Zjoekov and Vince (with some other people hanging about) in relation to how to use Mike's Ork army. One of the major things Mike said not to do is trade units. This at first seems odd as Mike's Ork list has a ton of individual units, all worth next to nothing compared to other armies and it would seem you'd be happy to trade units. However, this isn't chess or checkers though where once you get ahead, you can trade pieces as there are set parameters in how you can take pieces. In 40k dice can change things around quickly so you want to keep your army together for as long as possible which means not trading units or sending units forward very early as willy nilly sacrifices.

Now obviously there are times when this can be useful (a blocking unit with a melta weapon in front of a Land Raider full of TH/SS for example) but the ultimate goal is to kill something of your opponent's and not have that unit die in return. If it does die, you want your opponent to have expended effort to have done so rather than just rolling over the unit whilst advancing up the field.

What this boils down to is keeping your army together. Now obviously there are elements which go off in different directions (flankers for example) but the point is you don't want to throw units forward to attempt to delay your opponent (and thus trade units) unless it is really necessary. This is the same with single Drop Pods or outflankers, etc. If these units are capable of tying up the opponent and not simply rolling over and dying (hi Wolf Scouts for example), then go for it but it must all be understood that trading units is not the way in 40k, even if you have more units than your opponent. 40k (and Fantasy) is just too diverse in terms of movement options, relevant value of units (which changes game to game), ability for units to do what you want (i.e. non-voluntary actions such as falling back), etc. all of which is based around a D6 system which brings randomness into the fold.

How does this equate to play on the table-top? Stop full speed rushing ahead every game with a couple of units. Sure, there are times when moving 12", hopping out and blasting your opponent due to poor deployment/seizing works but as a general every-day tactic? No. You risk a lot when you do this and unless you can expose your enemy (i.e. kill more and present more targets than they can deal with), this generally isn't viable. As an army wide tactic this can be used by some armies (i.e. Dark Eldar and Grey Knights) who can present a ton of targets (16+) all of which can affect the opponent significantly and don't die at a stiff breeze (unlike say Imperial Guard or Tau Fire Warriors). Rather than sending units, or a small group of units steaming forward, hold them back. Force your opponent to kill you  at range whilst you move up at a steady pace (and shooting the whole time). When you get in a position to deal with multiple targets of your opponents whilst generating a ton of targets of your own, then you can start moving units in and engaging the enemy at close range.

Let's look at some examples then of both good and bad unit trading that are commonly seen. Let's start with the bad.

Single Pods

Pods are great for disruption and single Pods can often net you a killed tank. Any canny opponent however when seeing this is going to protect their tanks and protect their important/expensive tanks with cheaper tanks. The result? You drop in and perhaps kill a transport and are then in full view of your opponent's army. You could survive and you could cause some disruption but the most likely event is your unit (i.e. Dread or Sternguard) dies, your Pod dies and you've traded what is essentially two units for a transport. This is bad. If you are taking a single Pod and your opponent does this, great, you've changed his deployment now drop in midfield or start the unit on the board if you have that option and take advantage of his changed deployment.

Suicide melta units

This is going to be discussed later in more detail but melta units do not have to move forward ASAP turn 1. The end result is you often kill your opponent's transports in midfield or on their side of the board, but you often lose your transport and the unit inside as well. Even if you do this with multiple melta units, you're not really gaining a huge amount from this tactic more often than not and quite regularly get the short end of the stick if all your guys/transports die. There are times when this is appropriate (covered below and in a later post) but as a general rule, don't send them off willy-nilly.

Now let's look at an example of a good 'trade.'

Stopping the Lynchpin/Rock

This is the most obvious case of when unit trading or sacrificing is good. When you can kill or significantly delay an opponent's most important unit(s) which are very expensive (i.e. Land Raider + Termies = 450 points) with a unit that is far less expensive and will ultimately help your army in the long-run, go for it. This is  much more beneficial than normal as your are stopping a significant portion of your opponent's army from doing something. Whether it's moving forward or actually killing it, the loss of your unit is worth the cost. Don't overdue it though and send too much in to delay your opponent, just enough that their plans are disrupted (or the unit destroyed/damaged) whilst the rest of your force operates as normal.

The take-home message:

  • unit trading is bad. There are times when it is okay but you would much rather kill an opposing unit and keep yours alive. This means not throwing units forward to the dogs unless there is significant reason to do so.
  • This equates to keeping your army together to a certain extent. Don't attack your opponent in waves but put pressure on them early (by moving and shooting) and then overwhelm them with targets that can all damage them at once (and thus reduce their ability to destroy your units in return).
A repetitive article but I see far too many people throwing units forward and thinking of them as individual units rather than parts of a whole. There are times to gamble or times when this might be necessary but you want your army to work together for as long as possible and sending units forward to disembark your opponent from Rhinos and Chimeras on T1 isn't the best way to do it.

Comments (11)

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My play style when I was new was that every unit should make its points back and it doesn't matter if it dies if it does that, which i guess is a type of trading of units. Of course learned this is bad unless like you say, you are killing a lynch pin unit of the enemies that severely hampers his battle plans. My favorite unit was a plasma honor guard in a pod, came down turn 1 and usually vaporized something valuable that was guaranteed to cause me allot of grief later on in the game. It of course always died the next turn.
thanks for this, it is a good article which successfully articulates many points i try and make to new players. the drop pod example seems particularly prevalent in my area. quite what the attraction is i never quite understood.
You just gotta be careful how you go about things; a perfect example of even when trying to suicide stop a raider *CAN* be bad, is when you have an opportunity to prevent getting 5-7 TH/SS terms and a raider into your lines, but to do so you have to roll a transported melta unit up 12" and pop out to barely within 6", and blow up the raider. Let's say you do ... you aren't charging the termies, and you aren't blocking them ... their net ability to boomerang or even HIDE through your infantry unit is going to make up for the net movement loss anyway.

The hiding part is even worse when you think about it - 4 of them could readily go punch your transport, while 1 punches a couple of your dudes, and bam, for your shooting phase they're hiding in your soon-to-be-pulped unit, and in perfect position to gang charge you anyway, right where you didn't want them to be, and the net change is that while they've lost their raider, you've lost a melta unit and its transport, and whatever ELSE they charge ... instead of just losing what they charged un-suicide "stopped" and then ganking them all with your whole army up close.

Play for the GAME, not for the turn or target, and keep your units alive however long you possibly can ... works for me, at any rate.
1 reply · active 722 weeks ago
What would you do in that situation? Say its early in the game and you have 4 melta vets in Chimera near mid. Close enough to fire from inside a transport at max range but not within six. Would you present one as a target and take some 12" shots with your melta hoping for a good roll to immobilize and then take them out next turn with the rest of your chimera? Do you back off and hope he positions himself poorly next turn?
With kanwall, especially against guard it's good to run first turn so that boyz behind the kanz will get into range before being decimated by ordnance. Basically you want to maximize your units potential - even if it means that kans won't shot that first turn.

I'd say trading units - especially deff kopta suicidal first turn runs against Vendettas or other high importance targets behind the lines is sometimes worth it.

Stelek made an ork list all about throwing your best to save your crap, where he used four 10 shoota boyz with big shoota for claiming objectives, two troop 4 biker nobz with warbosses to go for it, and three 7 lootas, three 3 deff koptas w/ TL rokkits and three 3 big gunz with ammo runts to shoot the other guy.
http://yesthetruthhurts.com/2011/05/orks-a-quandr...

Is this just the oposite of what you talk about or not? The biker nobz go forward while the rest shoot away and boyz look for cover and go to ground if shot at. Opponent has a hard nut to crack whether to shoot at boyz or at nobz or at deffkoptas, or at lootas or at big gunz?

I'd say it's using your best units to what they are best for - bikers for charging, the rest for shooting...
2 replies · active 722 weeks ago
In Stelek's list, he's not "throwing away" the advancing units. Because they are advancing as a group, there isn't a single "Here I am, I did my damage, now kill me" unit stuck up in front without close support by several other units. The point of this article is that pushing up a single unit in order to kill a single enemy unit is often not worth it, but that doesn't mean that pushing units forward into harm's way is a bad idea.... just don't do it one unit at a time even if that unit has a good target to hit. Hitting one target well may still not kill that target, but you're pretty definitely certain to lose the advanced unit. However, if you advance multiple units at a time, then all of the units support each other instead of feeding one unit at a time into the opponent's short-range firepower.
I think that list has a flaw by presenting an easy target priority. You shoot the stuff coming at you and wither the shooting. When the bikes are gone, focus on the shooters. Thats just my first impression, and I only skimmed it. I reserve the right to change my opinion as I read more indepth.
Timing can be everything on the battlefield. Learning to "wait" can be real hard for people to do, they always want to just rush at the enemy. A very nice article, focusing on keeping your army together and not sacrificing just to kill stuff. I run a Kantor list and keeping everyone together and under the +1 bubble is key. Supporting units can be huge in 40k, and getting your opponent to throw uinits one at a time at you is golden.
pimpdaddyork's avatar

pimpdaddyork · 722 weeks ago

I use suicide units. I call them fire dragons. As they die they almost always do something good for me like get assaulted by the guys that were in the raider. Now I get to blast the death star and I got rid of a raider for one or two units that don't come close to them in points.
EvantheNoob's avatar

EvantheNoob · 722 weeks ago

Good article Kirby,

One of the mistakes I see so many players make involves trading units. They lose almost their entire squad and have 1-3 guys left (usually the melta/pfist). Instead of conserving the squad (and denying the kill points) they run forward in some last ditch attempt to "make the squad earn it's points back" or some other such nonsense. Is your battle plan so dependent on 2-3 Pfist attacks that you can't afford to let that assault sergeant go hide behind some LOS blocking terrain? Does your single Long Fang missile launcher count for so much that you can't hide him behind a hill in a KP game - thus robbing your opponent of that KP?

So many players only see their units in terms of how much damage they can deal. They forget that a single tac marine is just as capable of holding an objective in the backfield as a full ten man unit.

Obviously, there are times when you have to go for broke. Maybe those pfist attacks are needed. Maybe that one ML shot is your last shot at winning the game. Usually though, I find that force preservation trumps most of those issues.
Good stuff Kirbs!
This is one of those concepts that can take someone's gameplay to the next level.
Excellent article, sir....Pinked!

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