Kirb your enthusiasm!


"Pink isn't a color. It's a lifestyle." - Chumbalaya
"...generalship should be informing list building." - Sir Biscuit
"I buy models with my excess money" - Valkyrie whilst a waitress leans over him

Sunday, July 31, 2011

Email in: Ard Boyz Hybrid BA

Cadia 122
"Hey Kirby,

The usual preface, first-time writer, long-time lurker and semi-infrequent commenter. Big fan of the blog and your list reviews, grouphugs all round. Down to business then, I believe this is the list I'll be taking to Ard Boyz, barring some great suggested changes. I've playtested it at lower point values with pretty good success, though I'll concede my local gaming area isn't the most cutthroat one around. I"ll also concede that you're not a fan of Hybrid Blood Angels, but I respect your critiques and opinions on lists--just not enough to stop running Hybrid BA it seems! :-P Sorry.

On to the list...

Commander Dante
Librarian (Unleash Rage, Fear of the Dark)

Sanguinary Priest with Jump Pack x 2
Brother Corbulo
Furioso Dreadnought with Blood Talons

Sanguinary Guard--Chapter Banner, Power Fist
Assault Squad--10 Marines, 2 Meltaguns, Powerfist, No Jump Packs (They ride in the Storm Raven)
Assault squad--10 Marines, 2 Meltaguns, Powerfist, Jump Packs x 2

Fast Attack
Baal Predator--Assault Cannons x 3

Heavy Support
Stormraven--Multi-Melta, Assault Cannons, Extra Armor
Vindicator x 2

Playstyle-wise, the first Assault Squad rides in the Raven with the Librarian and Corbulo (haven't tried this out yet, normally I use a regular Sanguinary Priest, though I'm thinking Corbs could actually be worthwhile) and the Furioso surfs on top. The dread is meant to get stuck in quickly, but I tend to be a bit more conservative with the squad as they lose mobility if the Raven gets shot down, and if it survives then its a scoring fast skimmer. I find the squad is large enough to take an objective by itself late game, so occasionally I'll reserve the Raven for later. I've used Shield of Sanguinius with the Libby previously to mostly good effect, but this was better when he cruised around in a Razorback and stuck closer to the Baals & Vindicators. In a Raven he tends to leap forward faster, hence dropping Shield and having the option to either smash something in assault (Unleash) or try to make it run away (Fear).

Depending on the enemy list, I can either deploy the jumpers on the board or reserve them to (usually) come in reliably on turn 2 or 3. The jumpers usually end up doing most of the dirty work of mopping up enemy units, and function well for tank busting. The Sanguinary Guard unit is a natural fit for Dante, though I've found he also works well in a regular Assault Squad as well. In that case he adds precision to the Descent Melta-drop if there's a suitable target, and he adds a lot of resilience and punch to an otherwise so-so unit. I first added Dante to the list on a whim, and was seriously considering Mephiston instead, but opted for the Gold One because he can join a squad instead of getting picked out, and he actually benefits the army around him significantly.

I know you're also not a big fan of BA Vindicators (bad enough I hit you with Hybrid BA, but compounding it with double-Vindies too? The nerve of some people) and I'm not absolutely wedded to them, though I like that 1) They draw enemy attention a LOT, even distracting from the Raven at times and 2) They present a big threat and a reliable counter to the big nasties like Thunderwolf Cav and Paladins. I know you'll probably point to them as something to change, and I'll definitely hear you out on that. Two provisions though: 1) I don't have any riflemen dreads (I've got dreads I could conceivably convert so they're an outside possibility, but I like that the tanks can move 12" and fire to effect, while dreads tend to get left behind) and 2) I don't have any predator turrets that aren't dual assault cannons or flamestorms. That'd be a more difficult conversion/build process than the dreads, so I'm going to be an ass and just say "No auto/las preds" sorry.

Those provisions aside, I'm open to suggestions to the list and I have a large enough collection that I can field basically any other unit (probably 2 or more for most things) in the codex except for Scout Bikers. And while it might amuse you to suggest those as payback for the Double-Vindicator Hybrid BA List of Annoyance, I'd have to give you negative internets for it. I like my list because it presents several different threats, has a good amount of heavy (AV 13) armor for the opponent to contend with, but also a decent number of bodies and with sufficient gear and support to be legitimate close combat threats. Mechanized is certainly the more reliable and traditional way to go, but I think having pretty good FNP coverage (the Storm Raven projects a nice bubble, and the jump Priests are split with one joining the Sang Guard and one joining a regular Assault Squad) mitigates much of the liability that a lack of transports causes. And it has the benefit of always moving 12" per turn, being able to assault on the move, and additional flexibility with reliable deep strike options.

Anyway, enough rambling from me. Thanks for any help and feedback you can provide. And as my last bit of bribery since I know you're a big basketball fan: Any thoughts on where Dwight Howard is going to end up? As a big Orlando Magic fan that's had the pleasure of meeting Dwight in person and getting an autograph, I can safely say I'll be about as depressed as a Sisters of Battle player, if Dwight pulls a Shaq 2.0 and goes elsewhere.

Thanks again Kirby!


Ahem. The list feels...well small for 2500. A single Raven at 2500 is not going to last and you can't just take the Jump Packs off the ASM without buying a transport (i.e. free Drop Pod) - something to note at least. I just feel with 40ish FNP Marines and 7 vehicles, you don't have enough at 2500. I'd expect to see those numbers at 2000 points so at 2500....not good. I'm happy with Vindicators for Blood Angels. I'm not a fan but they do work a lot better in BA but, you have aggressive units alongside them and this is naughty. What happens when they scatter onto your guys? So either run with this risk, change the Vindicators to say more Storm Ravens (do you have more Stormravens?) or run ASM inside Razorbacks which don't get out often and poke your opponent.

I'd love to see more Storm Ravens. If you had them I'd go with that over the Vindicators, run a bunch of FNP ASM, another Furioso (so the Ravens only have the Furiosos), put sponsons on the Baals and go nuts. I'd prefer to see Land Speeders over the Baals but they at least give you places to 'hide' the ASM. Either way use this as a list basis and simply upgrade it to 2500 with similar units/concepts.

If you don't have more Storm Ravens I'd drop it and the Furioso and strongly recommend putting those ASM in Razorbacks. You can have some squads such as Sanguinary Guard running behind this wall of fast mech but Vindicators are notorious for screwing up your own plans with aggressive armies. You might say well I won't fire where my guys are but your opponent knows this and can take advantage. Not a good thing in a competitive oriented list. Something like this would be a great basis, just change the Dreads to Vindies in your case.

Hope those give you some ideas and if you want to post an updated list below, I'll be happy to re-critique it.

Now Dwight...I'd love for him to go to Portland =D but I still have high hopes for Oden. If he can stay healthy I think Oden is still the real deal. I mean in 20-24 mins in the one season he was healthy he got 12/8/2 points/rebounds/blocks a game. That's very nice considering how rough he looked offensively and how few minutes he played. But ya IDK. If I was Orlando management I'd be doing everything to land CP3 and get rid of Arenas. The problem with the team is they are built around three point shooters and everyone double teaming Howard. When Howard gets played one-on-one they have no one who can consistently create. Howard is loads better offensively this last year than before and can still improve but he's still raw 10+ feet from the basket. Unless he really picks up moves like Hakeem had at that range, that's their whole plan. They hoped Vinsanity could take that role over. He's too old. They hoped Gilbert could. Too frail. J-Rich isn't that good. Nelson is solid but not fantastic. etc. CP3 or anyone who can create off the dribble would allow them to keep this identity but not be beholden to it. Same with Bulls. They need a 2-guard who can create and defend *looks at Affalo*.

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