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Saturday, August 13, 2011

Comp Failure - DaBoyz GT


I'm going to link it. You're going to break it.

Your minimum score MUST be 30 or it's not allowed and then the judges can tack on further points if they wish. This score will comprise over 25% (26.7%) of your total score for the tournament.

Now the missions...

Mission 1 - Kill Points with a special rule where you basically cast the Eldar psychic power Doom on any unit for the whole game...this helps MSU as they don't care if one of their squad dies and MSU is something you've tried to kick in the balls with your crappy comp. It's 2 KP though so yay! Objectives for secondary but player placed and I'm not sure how many there are.



Mission 2 - ...so it's like Kill Points but vastly benefits the player who kills things last. Pro tip: don't go first in this mission. Oh and KP are the secondary, awesome.

Mission 3 - Good solid primary there, well done. But 3/3 missions with spearhead deployment (advantage shooting armies) and 3/3 missions with Kill Points as Primary or Secondary. Naughty.

Mission 4 - Ask Fantasy how random terrain effects are working? Poorly? Hmm, so why are we using them here? Not a good idea and then you slap shooting lists for keeping units in their deployment zone. As annoying as this is, Spearhead makes it dumb since I can deploy on the wings of the deployment zone and still affect the tabletop very well and then simply step out of the deployment zone Turn 5. Oh and impassable anything = bad.

Mission 5 - Finally, non-spearhead deployment (though your Deployment says spearhead and then tells me to deploy using Dawn of War...). There shouldn't be impassable terrain for objectives to ignore and WHY ARE THEY MOVING and why is the WHOLE game night fight? Shooting army = yay the objectives moved into your deployment zone *shoots you dead with minimal retaliation*. Assault army = yay the objectives moved into your deployment zone, goodluck shooting me! Bad, bad, bad. Random is not good for a tournament setting beyond what the game lays out for us such as Random Game Length and the dice.

To the actual tournament...

Random match-ups for first three rounds. Bad. Three seal clubbings, awesome! Where's the 6th mission? Where's the 5th edition emphasis on Troops? Most of your missions do not require actual Troops as scorers and there's a heavy emphasis on killing and random factors rather than actual tactical play. You can play a perfect game and lose because of random mission factors. Add in a comp system, which is meh and what edition of 40k are you playing?

Anyway, let's see what you guys can come up with in terms of breaking the comp system. I'm off to play with my Tyranids again and try and keep in mind the missions. I'm looking to Black Templar to abuse the hell out of it =D.

Comments (85)

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Oh Jesus it's like tax return time all over again.

Erm, Necrons are completely boned by this. No duplicates? Great, I usually only have two units (if I'm lucky!) in each slot anyways!

Requiring you to fill one of each slot before taking a second of anything is stupid.

Also apparently transports are the devil and if you take them you are literally worse than Hitler. So BA, DE, SW, and SM Bikers are basically the only viable armies in this comp.

When they talk about "squadrons," I assume they mean vehicle squadrons, not... you know, squads.

Alright, so if you're looking to maximize comp, SM Bikers are out, as they rely on HQs extensively and don't have good options in most slots. BA... meh, you could do okay, but pure jumpers isn't going to be at its best. GK... I dunno, I'm not sure what a GK foot list looks like exactly. I think you could do it, though? Loganwing is possible, but you're taking a 30pt hit straight off the bat there, so that's gonna be tough. I think DE are the clear winners here.

...Wait! Wait! If mech isn't viable, Tyranids are! Okay, so your FA selections are gonna be kinda weak, but other than that you can do pretty well (and even FA has some good stuff, so...) Alright, so DE and 'Nids are our two obvious choices here- we could also maybe try a DA Deathwing army, but that has a very similar problem to Loganwing, so I think we'll avoid it. Both DE and 'Nids have all-foot lists with good units in every slot and no need for special characters.

In DE, you basically can run basic Webway Portal (one or two Raiders/Venoms, maybe a Ravager or three, Reavers, Beastmasters, Harlequins, Trueborn, etc) or try something goofier, which is certainly possible (Grotesque spam, etc.) With 'Nids you're basically just hitting the all-star list; Primes are probably your best HQ choice to save points, and you can take a pair for some fun with Fexstar. Ymgarl are kinda an automatic in the EL department, and then Hive Guard and then possibly Zoanthropes or whatnot afterwards. Troops are obviously Termagant/Tervigon setups; it should be easy to avoid duplicates. FA means making some choices, but Raveners, Gargoyles, and Shrikes all seem worthwhile. HS gets a little tricky, but there are actually a lot of good choices, we just have to make sure to stay focused; Trygon + 2 Carnifexes (to go with our two Primes) seems handy, but don't discount triple-Biovore, as virtually everyone will be on foot. Hrm.
5 replies · active 716 weeks ago
1 Tyranid Prime (Whip/Sword, Adrenal, Regen)
1 Tyranid Prime (Whip/Sword, Toxin, Regen)
8 Ymgarl Genestealers
3 Hive Guard
10 Termagants
11 Termagants
1 Tervigon (Adrenal, Toxin, Cluster, Catalyst)
1 Tervigon (Adrenal, Toxin, Cluster, Catalyst)
3 Warriors (Strangler, Boneswords, Toxin)
3 Warriors (Strangler, Boneswords, Adrenal)
3 Spore Mines
3 Biovores
2 Carnifex (2 TLDev, Regen, Frag Spines)

That's 2000pts right there (or a hair under, actually.) If the Termagants don't count as differentiated for squad sizes, give one of them Spike Rifles or something. This is kinda really banking on there not being much heavy mech there, but if there isn't, you will shred most people AND have full comp. I suspect the list could be improved- for example, drop one Tervi/Terma for two more Warrior squads, as it becomes a really big deal to have a ton of large blasts flying around. You could also try to maximize that and take comp hits to have more Biovores or Ymgarl, both of which will devastate most foot armies, or add in Shrikes, Stranglethorn (on Tyrants or whatnot), etc to further punish folks.
Generally you're probably gonna take penalties due to taking the same kind of units in HQs, Elites, and HS, Puppy, do double-prime might be meh (it'd probably lose 15 points). That said, you could toss points into other stuff. Try to vary your choices, as the comp panel will be adding in 'up to' 30 additional points, in addition to the 80p you already get.

And honestly, for FA? Take Gargoyle Squads for bubblewrap, they're not that bad (a Harpy or two could help with assaulting as well).
Ok, so based on the way the DE codex writes it, it's 1-3 Haemons per HQ choice (but comp tournies would love to change this so...ugh). Anyways, if you can get them, 2x Haemons both with WWPs (three could work well to carve some decent midfield control too). So the Haemons, probably some Wracks for objectives, Flamer funzies, and assault beat-downs (lets say 3), some Wyches with Haywires, one Beast squad, one Reaver squad, one Jetfighter squad, one Ravager, maybe a Cronos, a Trueborn squad, and finally some Harlies.
Yeah, that looks just about like what you'd want. I wouldn't bother with the Chronos, they're pretty bad, but otherwise looks right.
I don't think DE will do well, Puppy, you can't spam ANY units in Elites, FA, or HS (no multiple Ravagers, which isn't a big loss).

DE list would probably work out to a mix of everything (Two Wyches & Warriors, one Trueborn, one Reaver squad, one Beast squad, and so on) and would be highly dependent on weither choosing multiple Haemons meant choosing the same HQ choice, even if one was Ancient and one wasn't. A Chronos would probably also work well here, along with a Razorwing fighter.
SkinnyPuppyAteMy's avatar

SkinnyPuppyAteMy · 716 weeks ago

feel the hate, yet?

But why did you label this comp fail. you seem more annoyed at the mission over anything else.
4 replies · active 716 weeks ago
We've gone over shit missions a lot, Skinny. If you love the missions, and possibly have some reasons as to why they add to a balanced tourney, you can give them.
SkinnyPuppyAteMy's avatar

SkinnyPuppyAteMy · 716 weeks ago

This is just a knee jerk reaction post. Look they ran this event last year. The boards were then also outraged because it included comp and some different missions. In the end, the event was well attended, people who showed said they had a good time, and event wasn't won by some fluff Muppet.

What they are trying to do is get people to take different lists. i guess there is little tolerance for different.
People will take different lists whether you have comp or not. All you're doing is arbitrarily punishing some lists and not others.
Imagine someone with a harder list wants to attend, but is going to be hit hard due to comp because of it? Neither side should suffer here, man, but comp doesn't help things. We've covered comp before, and it's requirements allow for big loopholes. The worst bit is they RESTRICT lists too.
CCS - Straken, 4 meltaguns, 2 bodyguards, Chimera
Priest with Eviscerator
Ratlings (6)
Psyker battle Squad with 2 additional psykers
Veteran Squad - 3 plasmaguns, Autocannon, Chimera
Veteran squad - 3 meltaguns, Chimera
Veteran Squad - Demolitions, 3 flamers
PCS - 4 meltaguns
Infantry Squad - Commissar, 2x power weapon, meltagun, meltabomb
Infantry Squad - Power weapon, meltagun, meltabomb
Infantry Squad - Power weapon, meltagun, meltabomb
Vendetta - Heavy Bolters
Valkyrie - MRP's, Heavy Bolters
Manticore
Leman Russ Battle Tank

1850 points 60 on the comp score.

Priest is in the blob which goes forwards with straken, flamer vets alpha strike from the valk if possible, PCS goes in vendetta to make it scoring and provide close range anti-tank if needed, plasma vets sit back and hold objective. PBS and ratlings try to pin enemy deathstars, manticore and LRBT provide fire support.

Do I get a cookie?
1 reply · active 716 weeks ago
Nice...
Very cool and probably still competitive despite the stupid comp. system.
Space Marine Bikers, 2000 points

Space Marine Captain, bike, relic blade, storm shield, artificer armour 195
Space Marine Librarian, bike, null zone, vortex of doom 135
Bike Command Squad, 3 lightning claws, thunder hammer, 4 storm shields, 2 meltaguns 360

8 Bikes, 2 melta, multi-melta attack bike 285
8 Bikes, 2 melta, multi-melta attack bike 285
5 bikes, 2 melta, multi-melta attack bike 285

Dreadnought, 2 twin-linked autocannon 125
Dreadnought, 2 twin-linked autocannon 125 -20 points

Land Speeder Typhoon 90
Land Speeder Typhoon 90 -20 points

Total, 1975 points, 40 comp points

I'll grant it's probably not a tournament winning army, but it's probably what I'd bring to the table in a 2000 point game anyway. I guess with the dreadnoughts people wouldn't really count it as a bike army, but I <3 my dreadnoughts.
7 replies · active 716 weeks ago
Pretty sure you'd take a big hit for having 3 HQ choices.
Captain
Libby
Command Squad.
Takes you down to 25 points comp score.
BT_Templar's avatar

BT_Templar · 716 weeks ago

It gets even worse assuming that "squadrons of more than 2 models" means bikes also.
Another - 30 pts then .. for (-5) pts comp total ..
Squadrons are for vehicles, bikes are just infantry.
Command Squads don't count against HQ selections, says so in the Codex.

EDIT: I read that again. Those bastards.

Squadron the Typhoons into one squad. That gets me back 20 points so I can take the Command Squad with a composition score of 45.

EDIT 2: Does anyone know why I keep getting 1 thumb up stuck beside my posts without anyone actually clicking on it?
What?! That means BA's Honor Guards are getting hit with the nerf bat too! Those f@#king f@#ks...
ArcadesDolor's avatar

ArcadesDolor · 716 weeks ago

I think it assumes automatically that you thumbsup your own post?
Oops, minus another 15 points because I didn't take a heavy support choice before taking a second HQ, second Elite, and second Fast Attack choice. If they count the Command Squad as a third HQ then I might have dropped below 30 points again.

I'm thinking I should think this out again.

First Line of Matrix

Captain, relic blade, storm shield, bike, meltabombs 185

Dreadnought, two twin-linked autocannon 125

8 Bikes, 2 meltaguns, multi-melta attack bike, power fist 310
8 Bikes, 2 meltaguns, multi-melta attack bike, power fist 310
8 Bikes, 2 meltaguns, multi-melta attack bike, power fist 310

Land Speeder Typhoon Squadron, 2 models, 180

First line, 1420, 430 to go

Second Line of Matrix

I think I'll go with Wyked here and use my Master of the Forge in order to get a rifleman in heavy support

Master of the Forge, power weapon 115 (in rhino with the Sternguard)

Heavy Support Rifleman Dreadnought 125 (also fills the hole in the first line of the matrix)

5 Sternguard, 2 lascannon, Rhino 190

That's 1850 points on the nose, and I'm fairly sure I haven't sacrificed any comp points. There's not a lot of saturation in the list, but the dreads and typhoons, along with the sternguard, should be quite good at suppressing units at long range, and the bikes will still carve things up with melta at closer range. I'm not crazy about having power fists in the bikes, but without command squads to do the heavy lifting they may be of use.
Wow at them not dropping comp
Chaos Daemons could be fun, aiming for 4 units pre God would create an incredibly varied (but probably not very effective) army.

Sure the table would be a mess of colour and shapes, and sure you'd probably place last, but it'd fit the theme of the tourny.
1 reply · active 716 weeks ago
Nurgle greater daemons and princes are solid, if expensive, and of course plague bearers are good. Tzeentch we have heralds, flamers, and a Prince. Khorne we have Crushers, bloodletters, and flesh hounds as all viable choices. Slaanesh has the least, though chariot heralds are amusing, and seekers aren't *horrible*.
Tastytaste's avatar

Tastytaste · 716 weeks ago

I was told they were going to drop it after last year, but looks that was not the case. If you go to Dakkadakka their is a lot of defense for the event. I just don't get why people have to be penalized for taking the models they want to play, hell what if they just want to take the models they only own! Let players take whatever they want to events good or bad. I might hate certain things about competitive lists, but that is purely because I find many uncreative still making any buy new models to fit some idea of "comp" is preposterous.
3 replies · active 716 weeks ago
If I go to Dakka I can also find defense of shit tactics so :P.
One of the event organizers was molested as a child by a set of identical quintuplets. Ever since he's been deathly afraid of groups of the same thing.
This. This is the basis of what Comp should be. More, viable units. You still have to assemble a list with good tactics, but unit spam isn't going to get you there.
Heres my SM list
Capt Pwr Swd+Combi Melta 125

10 Terms Cyclone ML, Asslt Can, 1x CF 465
8 Asslt Terms TH/SS 320

10 x SM MM and Flamer 170 with a las/plas 75
10 x SM MM and Flamer 170 with a las/plas 75
5 x Scout sniper rifles and camo cloaks 90

Typhoon 90
Atk Bike MM 50

Predator AC/HB 85
Land Raider Crusader MM, Storm Bolter, Extra Arm 285

Asslt terminators go in the LRCR
2000 points, 80 Comp score
2 replies · active 716 weeks ago
Brother Captn James's avatar

Brother Captn James · 716 weeks ago

codex Space marines
Shrike 195 -20 comp special character 101-200
librarian null zone gate of infinity 100
assult terminators X10 4x lightning claws 6x thunderhammers storm sheilds 400
dreadnought multi melta powerfist storm bolter 105
tactical squad x10 melta gun combi melta 180
razor back twin lass 75
tactical squad x10 flamer missile launcher 170
razorback twin lass 75
scout squad x5 shotguns power fist 100
land speeder typhoon x3
landspeeder storm heavy bolter
land raider extra armor 265
land raider redeemer extra armor multi melta 265
fast mobile heavy hitting and a 60 comp special hariters are almost imposable to do with out taking a 20 point hit
you can drop shrike and take a caplin and have an extra 95 points for what ever you want, then the termies can go in the raiders instead f infultrating and fleeting libby can ride in the other raider one 5x fearless termies and one 5x ld 10 termies in raiders as one squad but can combat squad no hits. stupid comp but thats what i would talke
Oooh, nice catch. I think you could do one better, though.

Librarian (Terminator+SS, Null Zone, Vortex)
Captain (SS, Relic Blade, Artificer)
10 Assault Terminators (TH/SS)
Rifleman
10 Tacticals (MM, Flamer, Rhino)
10 Tacticals (MM, Flamer, Rhino)
Typhoon
Land Speeder Typhoon
Attack Bike (MM)
Land Raider Crusader (MM, EA)
Land Raider Redeemer (MM, EA)

Armor saturation without hitting the dedicated transport wall; I think it's a bit under 2K. You have two TH/SS squads to dive in with (Combat Squads) and a character striking at initiative for both of them.
And this is why comp doesn't work. I applaud your skills at breaking the system.
I could easily make a decent BT list that gets a score of 50-80. Not really sure what the point of that shitty system is and the missions are bad.

I'll do so in the morning.
BT_Templar's avatar

BT_Templar · 716 weeks ago

Those comp rules are so absurd ... They force you to take a weird army consisting of units where nothing can be doubled to not lose the points, where squadrons and transports are punished for some crazy reasons and many really fluffy armies can't actually be fielded .. bravo ;P

Wonder what they have in mind with those squadron rule .. if that means that each bike squadron beyond the first is decreasing the comp . .that is really a joke (you want to bring that white scars army of only bikes .. oh really ?)
This is Datum Point #24,601 in my ongoing study on why Comp Systems suck. Would it really kill a tourney to just play the game as it was written?
Hulksmash's avatar

Hulksmash · 716 weeks ago

GK List:

Malleus Inquisitor w/Psycannon, Psyker, Hammerhand
8 Deathcult Assassins in Rhino
3x10 Grey Knight Terminators w/8 Halberds, 2 Psycannons, 2 Hammers
Dreadknight w/Heavy Incinerator

It's 80 Comp Points. The deathcult make a hell of a hammer even if their rhino goes down. The Dreadknight is a solid choice in this format and good luck killing 30 Terminators in this system.
Shadowmancer's avatar

Shadowmancer · 716 weeks ago

Math Comp. The worst kind of comp available.
pringles978's avatar

pringles978 · 716 weeks ago

i just had to have a crack at this one...

right... 2k biker hybrid

biker capt w relic blade, shield and digi weapons:190pts
motf w conversion beamer: 120pts

10 tac termies w 2x cyclone and 2x chainfist: 470pts
rifleman as elite: 125pts

2 full bike squad w mmelta attack bike, 2 meltaguns and combi melta: 590pts
5 sniper scouts w miss launcher and cloaks: 100pts

2 typhoons: 180pts

rifleman as heavy: 125pts
thunderfire cannon (for the lulz): 100pts

so we have a decent firebase of combat squadded termies, 2 rilemen, a pair of typhoons and the motf/scout combo and 4 squadded melta bikers... and a thunderfire for "exploring the codex..."
2 replies · active 716 weeks ago
pringles978's avatar

pringles978 · 716 weeks ago

oh, and should be the full 80 comp points unless im mistaken (probably am...)

comp really is a pain in the ass, wtf does this nonsense do for the hobby?
pringles978's avatar

pringles978 · 716 weeks ago

ugh, reading fail... for the 1850 version, drop the thunderfire, scout cloaks, chainfists and combi meltas. still not bad considering the restrictions... where is kirbys list to show us how its done?
The Machine God's avatar

The Machine God · 716 weeks ago

This Comp Rubric is bullshit. WHy do people feel the need to come up with these stupid systems to keep things "Comp" when it really just keeps people from being able to field any kinda themed army. "Army exploration" #^@& that. What if I wanted to run an ork list with a heavy Evil Suns theme with lots of cool varied fast attack options and vehicles. I can't. Because I lose points if I take a third fast attack option. Unless I take that 5th troop option which I''ll loose points for unless I take grots. Which dont' really fit into my theme of Evil suns unless I mount them in a battle wagon. Which I'd rather my nobs or boys to go into. And what about those armies that have one troop choice. They try to fill stuff up to get a third option without losing points and they're losing points because of that 5th troop choice. Even if it is halfed your'e still losing points where another army isn't even if each of your squads has different gear. That's just bad planning.
Almost every army I own has a theme to it and isn't very competative. But I couldn't field a single one of them without losing points on this stupid "Comp" system. That's just retarded. All you're goign to get from this is a bunch of miss matched armies that don't really work together and have very little ability to work together. The whole point of 40k and the army lists is to pick an intersting army that you enjoy playing. I don't think I'd enjoy anythign built with that comp crap in mind.
Again I'd like to stress that I'm not a competative player and love theme armies and I hate comp. Specialy this one.

These comp restrictions kill any kind of idea of "Theme"
-Evil suns
-Guard Artillery company
-Chaor or marine Jumpers
-Dark Eldar Haemonculi coven
-Marine Seige Army
-Bad Moons
-Death Skulls

These are all horribly restricted in what they can take. You're eventualyl forced to take somethignt hat doesn't fit the theme. And then you get penalized for it. For having a fun themed army. How is that possible?
Enforcing Comp is stupid. Rewarding Theme with prizes is a way better idea. Then people can come and play to win or to just have fun or show off their sweet paintjobs or do whatever they want and everyone enjoys themselves.
Half the fun of this game is making a balanced army with a cool Theme that is still competative. Comp systems kill that part of the fun.

#^@& Comp
1 reply · active 716 weeks ago
Haemons are 1-3 for one HQ choice, so you shouldn't be penalized. They might do it anyways, though.
This is, believe it or not, a functional derivative of the Draigo list I used at Brawlcon. Should be a full 80 pts, perfectly effective.

1850 Pts - Grey Knights Roster - Copy cat, GT comp optimized list

Total Roster Cost: 1850

HQ: Grey Knight Grand Master (1#, 215 pts)
1 Grey Knight Grand Master, 215 pts = (base cost 175 + Psychotroke Grenades 15 + Rad Grenades 15 + Servo-skulls x2 10)

Troops: Grey Knight Strike Squad (11#, 280 pts)
1 Grey Knight Strike Squad, 20 pts + Psybolt Ammunition 20
1 Justicar, 20 pts
2 Grey Knights, 60 pts = 2 * 30 (base cost 20 + Psycannon 10)
7 Grey Knights, 140 pts = 7 * 20
1 Rhino, 40 pts

Troops: Grey Knight Terminator Squad (7#, 330 pts)
1 Grey Knight Terminator Squad, 0 pts
1 Terminator Justicar, 40 pts
1 Terminator, 65 pts = (base cost 40 + Psycannon 25)
1 Terminator, 40 pts
1 Terminator, 40 pts
1 Terminator, 40 pts
1 Terminator, 65 pts = (base cost 40 + Brotherhood Banner 25)
1 Terminator, 40 pts

Troops: Grey Knight Terminator Squad (5#, 225 pts)
1 Grey Knight Terminator Squad, 0 pts
1 Terminator Justicar, 40 pts
1 Terminator, 65 pts = (base cost 40 + Psycannon 25)
1 Terminator, 40 pts
1 Terminator, 40 pts
1 Terminator, 40 pts

Fast Attack: Stormraven Gunship (1#, 205 pts)
1 Stormraven Gunship, 205 pts

Elite: Venerable Dreadnought (1#, 190 pts)
1 Venerable Dreadnought, 190 pts = (base cost 175 + Psybolt Ammunition 5 + Assault Cannon 10)

Heavy Support: Dreadnought (1#, 135 pts)
1 Dreadnought, 135 pts = (base cost 115 + Psybolt Ammunition 5 + Twin-Linked Autocannon 10 + Twin-Linked Autocannon 5)

Heavy Support: Land Raider Crusader (1#, 270 pts)
1 Land Raider Crusader, 270 pts = (base cost 255 + Multi-melta 10 + Psybolt Ammunition 5)
The Dark Angel's avatar

The Dark Angel · 716 weeks ago

As others have pointed out necrons are screwed. But Dark Eldar are completely boned, they only have two transports and lets face foot dark dar doesn't work so the only viable list s left is WWP which you get hit for if you want 3 portals as taking 3 HQs is a hit and taking more than one haemoncuclus is a hit.
Warmaster Primus's avatar

Warmaster Primus · 716 weeks ago

Seriously? People are crying about how Necrons are screwed? I'm sure this spells the end of Necron dominance at every major GT. Damn you Da Boyz (/insert fist shaking)!
2 replies · active 716 weeks ago
No, just that this nominally "balancing" system screws over the most already-screwed army pretty bad.
Best bit is how they say that even if you're taking hits due to their system, you can still gain the 30p boost, so don't worry.
ManusCelerDei's avatar

ManusCelerDei · 716 weeks ago

Tyranid prime-100
Toxin sacs, bone swords, scything talons

Tervigon-195
Cluster salvo, adrenal glands, toxin sacs, catalyst.

3 hive guard-150

10 ymgarls-230

3x 30 termagaunts-150

3x Tervigon-195
Cluster salvo, adrenal glands, toxin sacs, catalyst.

21 gargoyles-170
Toxin sacs, adrenal glands

shrikes

Tyrannofex-265
rupture ball cannon, 2+ to wound flamer thing, exploding spine launcher

Trygon-200

2345

80 points, i cant be arsed to check how much shrikes are, but use the last 155 on them.
Librarian-125
Jump pack, blood lance, unleash rage

Honor guard-285
4 melta guns, 2 storm shields, 1 power fist, 1 power sword

2x Sanguinary priest-90
Jump pack, power sword

10 assault marines-225
2 melta guns, power sword sergeant

10 assault marines-225
2 melta guns, lightning claw sergeant

10 assault marines-235
2 melta guns, power fist sergeant

10 assault marines-240
2 melta guns, thunder hammer sergeant

vanguard veterans-215
-2 storm shields, power fist sergeant.

5 devastators-120
3 missile launchers

1850

80 points
The problem I keep having when looking at the rubric is that it pretty much screws over the ability to get saturation. So I can't seem to shake the idea of taking a Battlewagon list since it seems like saturating with melta is going to be a LOT harder with this comp rubric, and people often have a hard enough time taking out a triple BW with KFF list.

Warboss: Big Choppa
Big Mek: KFF
Elite Nobs x10: Completely wound allocated, with a painboy, battlewagon w/ deff rolla, stikkbomb chukka, big shootas
Troop Nobs x10: Completely wound allocated, with a painboy, battlewagon w/ deff rolla, stikkbomb chukka, big shootas
Troop Boyz x20: Nob, PK
Troop Boyz x25: Nob, PK, Shootas
Troop Boyz x25: Nob, PK, Shootas
FA Stormboyz x20: Nob, PK, Bosspole
Heavy Support: Battlewagon w/ deff rolla, stikkbomb chukka, big shootas

70 Boyz, 20 Fast Boyz, 20 Nobs, 3 Battlewagons. Excellent amount of power(for orkz) headed forward, and you can easily camp a 25 man boyz unit on an objective if needed as well.

Oh, and it's the full 80 comp score, which is worth it I think, given the rating break down and the fact that I don't think many top scoring battle mission lists will also be perfect comp scores.

~dy
1 reply · active 716 weeks ago
Troop Nobz and Elite Nobz is a good dodge around the duplicate penalty; Battlewagons allow you to (mostly) bypass the dedicated transport restrictions, since you can take one for each squad of Nobz and one or two in the HS slots.
Comp is usually bad, but comp based on repetition and FoC makes it to a whole other level. When taking a Manticore and a Vendetta do not grant you a penalty, but bringing two Pariah units does, you know something is deeply wrong.
I think SM bikers might be the best army to bring.

Not just it works inside the stupid rules, but it also breaks them - they made their point to have armies with very limited mobility, and little protection from small arms.
5 replies · active 716 weeks ago
pringles978's avatar

pringles978 · 716 weeks ago

agreed. lets you take troops that dont need transports, lots of fast melta and combat squadding for sm in general lets you flood the board with more units within the stupid restrictions.

shame dual command is out, but hybrid can be done well.
I don't think you need to actually go hybrid; just running Captain + Command Squad is your best bet, which is pretty decent, and then you add in some extras like Land Speeders, Rifledreads, etc, to fill out points. Two full squads and two half squads gives you a lot of firepower and scoring presence and you make make them half melta and half plasma (all with MM bikes, of course) to dodge the duplicate penalty.
pringles978's avatar

pringles978 · 716 weeks ago

possibly... i can see the plasma units as a nod to ranged fire supourt, i just dont think you can get enough rifles/speeders to make a big enough impact without massive comp loss.
Ok, I dislike my ork list, just because I think it's not got enough shooty. Soooooo, I couldn't sleep and was thinking about this biker list.

Captain, bike, relic blade
Master of the Forge, bike, power weapon
Elite Rifleman
Troop Bike squad, power weapon, meltabombs, double melta, MM attack bike
Troop Bike squad, power weapon, meltabombs, double melta, MM attack bike
Troop Tac squad, combi-melta, meltagun, plasma cannon, rhino
Troop Tac squad, combi-melta, meltagun, plasma cannon, rhino
Fast Attack Attack Bike Squad, 2 MM Atk Bikes
Heavy Support Rifle dread
Heavy Support Dev Squad with 2 missiles

1850 on the nose.

Full 80 points comp score thanks to MotF making the 2nd dread a Heavy instead of an elite (I find tricks like this hilarious in my sleep deprived state). Good back field with 2 plasma cannon tac combat squads and 2 rifle dreads. Awesome mid field with 5 bike squads/combat squads hitting midfield accompanied by 2 rhinos and 2 HQ's. The assault leaves something to be desired, but with the amount of firepower that can be put out, target squads can be definitely weakened before assaulting.

Does that break comp enough while still being a good list? (It seems like a good list to me, but I don't have much space marine experience.)

~dy
Yes, support + elite dreads is hilarious for dodgind stupid restrictions.

The nicest part is that you loose no comp at all. And you pretty much break all the restrictions in place.

Fast, everything in transports, a crapload of vehicles in field.

It lacks a bit of anti-transport, but since we actually expect less vehicles on the field it should work very well.

It does lack a bit of CC though. And i usually dont like the plasma cannons on taticals, but again, since we are expecting less vehicles on the field, it might be very good.
I actually thought I was going to stuck with a terrible list, but this isn't too bad:

HQ:
'El w/AFP, MP, TA, HWMT, 2 x SD

2 x XV8 w/ 2x PR, 2 x MP, 2 x TA, 2 x HWMT

Elites:
3 x XV8 w/ 3 x PR, 3 x MP, 3 x MT

3 x XV8 w/ 3 x TLMP, 3 x F

3 x XV8, 3 x TLMP, 3 x F

Troops:
6 x FW & DF w/SMS, TA, DP, MT

6 x FW

6 x FW

11 x Kroot

11 x Kroot

FA:
2 x Piranha w/ 2 x FB, 2 x TA, 2 x DP

6 x PF & DF w/SMS, TA, DP, MT

8 x GD - 96

HS:
Hammherhead w/RG, SMS, MT, DP

2 x XV88 w/2 x ASS, TL, HWTL

Total: 1996

COMP:
- 35 for 3 elites
5 replies · active 715 weeks ago
Whoops; don't know why I thought this was 2K. Alright, so drop the 2nd deathrain squad (which takes me down to just 20 comp lost) and the TA on my 'el, and we're good.
You could also drop the gun drones for.....well, anything's better, really. And the Fire Warriors. Kroot are far more survivable and can kill more.
Kroot are hardly 'more survivable'. They're only really decent if the tables are set up with forests on them; any other terrain, and at best they get the same 4+ the FWs get, which the FWs will get as well if they're in the same cover. Meanwhile, the FWs get a better gun and the possibility of not just being summarily executed if they happen to wander into close combat, something ten un-armoured Kroot aren't likely to be able to say the same for. Plus, given that these missions apparently go heavy on the KPs, the fewer un-armoured bodies wandering around giving up absurdly easy killpoints, the better.

And hey, don't knock gun drones. 8 twin-linked S5 shots can really ruin the day of any kind of back-armour they happen to deep strike facing, and with I4 (and 4+) they're arguably even better in close combat than kroot, especially since they can fire and then charge (rapid fire guns on 'assault' troops, pfft).
For 70p, 10 models to 7, so more deaths till a LD check. 10 shots of S 4 vs. 7 shots of S 5 favours S 4 (unless we're dealing with guard or 30"=> but >24"), and then you've got other things to kill them). FWs will still die horribly in CC, don't give me that shit, the point is Kroot WILL die to CC, so you can control that for bubblewrap.

As for unarmoured bodies, they'll have 4++, the same that FWs get. They have the same T.

As to Gun Drones, BS 2 is shit even if twin-linked. 44% of shots will hit, so at best 2-4 shots hit, then MAYBE you get something. I4 is equal with marines, and striking at the same time with WS 2 S 3 means they'll suck.

Finally Kroot aren't assault troops, they're there to take an assault that your pathfinder, Suits, and/or Broadsides could have taken, maybe take some bodies down, then get slaughtered, thus allowing you another turn of shooting.
Two more deaths until an LD check, which they will absolutely suffer if an template or blast hits them, or if they suffer more than half a dozen people shooting at them. And their need to hug cover limits their ability to act as bubblewrap, since they can only shield areas adjacent to those pieces of terrain.

So, you can semi-reliably count on half the drones to hit, which is about what Tau can ever count on, and you consider this shit? And hey, they're pinning too, which doesn't often help but sometimes you just get lucky with them. Plus, they're particularly good screening elements if you don't deep strike them, since they can cover a lot of ground to interpose themselves between an enemy and a threatened ally, and again, no need to hug cover.

Eh, I've never personally bought into the bubblewrap philosophy. I know plenty of Tau players swear by it, but I'd rather trust in my mobility and wring the most shooting from my points total, rather than 'wasting' points on units whose only real purpose is to die in a mostly-pointless fashion.
I find it hilarious - in a gallows humor sort of way - that the most "fluffy" of all possible Space Marine army lists - the standard Codex Battle Company - would score close to zero comp points in this system. Six Tactical Squads, two Assault Squads, and two Devastator Squads. Oh, the horror,
2 replies · active 716 weeks ago
Welcome to the wonders of comp, Ajax, where the fluff is what someone else says it is.
Back towards the tail-end of Third Edition, I ran a vanilla Space Marine army that was exactly 108 men, on foot, so it would fit into a standard GW figure case: Captain, Chaplain, Command Squad, six Tactical, two Devastator, and two Assault Squads... and a Vindicare Assassin. No Rhinos, no Pods, heck, as I recall, the heavy weapons were only missile launchers and heavy bolters.

I was actually told by a GW Store assistant manager that my army was "cheesy" and "too strong." o.0
Silverstorm's avatar

Silverstorm · 716 weeks ago

Some BA
Libby - Jump Pack, Sanguine Sword, Shield - 125
Honor Guard - Jump Packs, 4x Melta - 205
1x10 ASM 2x Melta 1x Infernus 1x TH - 255
1x10 ASM 2x Melta 1x Infernus 1x PF - 250
1x2 Sang Priest 2x Jump Pack, 1x PW, 1x LC - 180
1x Fusioso Dreadnought Blood Talons, Heavy Flamer - 135
1x6 AST 4x TH/SS - 260
1x Storm Raven MM, ACannon - 200
1x5 ASM Razorback Las/TLPlas 155
1x Baal Predator Flamestorm 115
1x2 Land Speeder 2x MM 120
Total: 2000
Comp Score: 80
No bonus points for me seeing as how i changed a fist into a hammer, and a power weapon into a claw but ohh noes!!
Seeing as how thanks to their missions a person doesnt really need to max out their troop choices that means more room for fun toys :D
Heres a SW list that is beat face and still score pretty well on comp.
HQ-
Runepriest w/ Living lightning and tempests wrath

Wolf Guard battle leader in Power Armor w/ Thunderwolf mount, melta bombs, runic armor, frost weapon, stormshield, and saga of the hunter
Elite
Wolf guard pack in power armor w/ combi melta power fist x3

Wolf scouts w/ meltagun and melta bombs

Troops
Grey hunters x9
Meltagun, wolf standard, mark of the wulfen, rhino

Grey hunters x5
meltagun, Las/plas razorback

Grey hunters x5
meltagun,wolfstandard, Las/plas razorback

Grey hunters x10
Meltagun, flamer, wolfstandard

Blood claws x5
melta gun

Fast
Speeder w/ MM and HF

T wolf cav x2
1 w/ TH and SS
1 w/ SS and melta bombs

Heavy
Longfangs x6
5 Missile launchers

Longfangs x6
5 Missile launchers
PhantomPhoenix's avatar

PhantomPhoenix · 716 weeks ago

BT List, should get 65 of 80 but could trade the command Squad for bikes or an Annihilator to get the last 15 points but the command squad is worth it.

Emperor's Champ - AAC
Marshall - TDA, Bionics, TH, SS
--Terminator Command Squad - 2x CML, Tank Hunters, Sarge w/ TH, SS, Auspex

Terminators x5 - 2x CML, Tank Hunters
Assault Terminators x5 - 3x TH/SS, 2x LC, Furious Charge

Initiates x5 - Plasma, Lascannon
Initiates x5 - Plasma, Frags
Initiates x5 - Melta, Razor TL-Lascannon, PotMS, smoke
Initiates x5 - Melta, Frags, Razor TL-Lascannon, PotMS, smoke

Landspeeder - HB, Typhoon

Predator Destructor - HBs, smoke
1 reply · active 716 weeks ago
Phantomphoenix's avatar

Phantomphoenix · 716 weeks ago

Both foot init squads are supposed to have a Lascannon...
Not too bad for Tau, I think:

Shas'el, MP, FB, MT - 79
2 Bodyguard, MP, FB, MT - 128

Shas'el, MP, PR, MT - 87
2 Bodyguard, MP, PR, MT - 144

3 Crisis, TLMP, flamer - 141
6 Stealthsuits - 180

6 Fire Warriors - 60
6 Fire Warriors - 60
- Devilfish, Disrutpion Pod - 85
10 Kroot - 70
10 Kroot - 70

8 Pathfinders - 96
- Devilfish, Disrutpion Pod - 85
2 Piranha, Fusion Blasters, disruption pods, targeting array - 150

3 Broadsides, ASS, Team Leader with HW target lock, HWDC, 2 shield drones - 280
Hammerhead, Ion Cannon, Burst Cannons, Multitracker, disruption pod, target lock - 135

Total: 1850, and an 80 on the comp score if I'm right. Bit unorthodox (Stealthsuits and Ion Cannon), but mostly standard. Still 9 suits, all with at least one MP. Note that there's nothing that officially would keep you from going MP/PR on both HQ units (drop say a Stealthsuit to get the points), but in keeping with the "theme" of the tournament they're armed differently.
4 replies · active 715 weeks ago
You lose 30 for having four HQ choices, because the rubric counts the 'El and the retinue as two distinct options, meaning two 'Els with retinue are actually four distinct choices.
Does it really? That's lame. Alright then, we'd have to figure out how better to spend 200 odd points. Perhaps increase the size of the Piranha squad - 5-strong squads are actually pretty resilient.
It's pretty ridiculous alright. And I'm not sure, but you may lose more points depending on whether dedicated transports count the same way. If they do, you've got one more FA choice (PF + DF) than you 'should', costing you extra.

I can't say I've ever had the opportunity to field a 5-strong piranha squadron. The amount of blocking that many 4"-dispersed wide-fronted AV11 4++ hulls could accomplish....
I don't think dedicated transports count as a separate choice. Otherwise, they'd have to do the same for Troops choices, which I don't think is their intention.

Also, it's even better if you give the Piranhas Flechette Dischargers. ;)
Here it is - I'll completely rape their comp scoring with a list that I actually played at Mechanicon 2010. This a my armored imperial guard, the 501st Hambali AKA: The Jokers:

HQ: Primaris Psyker
Elite: Marbo
Troops 1: Vet squad, chimera (HS, HB, ML), 3 melta
Troops 2: Vet squad, chimera (HS, HF, ML), 3 melta
Troops 3: Vet squad, chimera (HS, HB, ML), 3 grenade launchers
Troops 4: Vet squad, chimera (HS, HF, ML), 3 flamers
Fast 1: Banewolf chemcannon w/multi-melta
Fast 2: Banewolf chemcannon w/multi-melta
Heavy 1: 2x Leman Russ Demolishers w/ Lascannon
Heavy 2: Leman Russ Battle Tank w/ Lascannon
Heavy 3: Leman Russ Battle Tank w/ Lascannon

120 points, which puts me at a -40 on their scale since you start at 80 and deduct points based on how awesome your list is.

Frak comp score - I just want to play.
1 reply · active 716 weeks ago
My Orks, and the Orks that Arch beat Kirby with, score a -140.
That's right, they score 220 points. Oh, and thats 1750. I have another 250 pts to bring it up to 2000 pts, so i am sure i can get it further down again :)
Grand Master Raziel's avatar

Grand Master Raziel · 716 weeks ago

SM mech-foot hybrid 1848pts

HQ: Librarian: The Avenger, Null Zone
Elites 1: Rifleman Dread
Elites 2: Venerable Rifleman Dread
Troops 1: Tac Squad: 10 Marines, multimelta, flamer, Sergeant with combi melta, Rhino
Troops 2: Tac Squad: 10 Marines, multimelta, meltagun, Rhino
Troops 3: Tac Squad: 10 Marines, lascannon, flamer, Sergeant wt combi flamer, lasplas Razorback
Troops 4: Scout Squad: 5 Scouts, sniper rifles
Troops 5: Scout Squad: 5 Scouts, pistol+ccw
Fast Attack 1: 2xTyphoon Land Speeders
Fast Attack 2: 2x MM Attack Bike
Heavy Support 1: Devastator Squad: 8 Marines, 4x missile launcher
Heavy Support 2: ACLC Predator
1 reply · active 716 weeks ago
Grand Master Raziel's avatar

Grand Master Raziel · 716 weeks ago

Tac Squad 3 combat squads, Librarian rides in the Razorback with the flamer-tastic demi squad. Sniper Scouts and Tac 3's lascannon demi-squad sit on an objective. Tacs 1 and 2 do area denial. Combat Scouts start in reserve and outflank to harass enemy backfield units. Pretty good firebase with the older and younger Riflemen, the Devs, Tac 3's demi-squad heavy, and the ACLC. Decent mobile element with Tac 3's flamer-demi in the Razorback plus the Speeders and Attack Bikes.

Comp-wise, this list is only giving up 10pts, so it's scoring 70pts minimum, but it's still fielding 8 vehicles.
And thus with some short effort, we get dozens of decent lists in the real world of 40k which score 50-80/80 on comp.

Do we get it yet people? Stop using comp.
2 replies · active 716 weeks ago
Grand Master Raziel's avatar

Grand Master Raziel · 716 weeks ago

Interestingly enough, the list I came up with was actually less fluffy than the one I originally had in mind. Having glanced at the opening post here without looking at the particulars, I figured to build a SM list based on half a battle company. 3 full Tacs, one full Assault Squad, 1 full Dev Squad. I figure nothing could be more fluffy than that. However, when I worked out the list, it was really low on the comp rubric, because it had 5 transports and took some small penalties in other areas. So, I revised the list around the rubric rather than sticking to theme.
Grand Master Raziel's avatar

Grand Master Raziel · 716 weeks ago

After this exercise, it occurs to me that if you want to run an event where people can bring fluffy themed lists, instead of coming up with a set of rules to try and force players into not being cheese-monkies, one might have more success just asking players to bring fluffy themed lists. Trying to force people to do something they're not inclined to do brings out the "screw you" reaction, evidenced here by all the lists that met the letter of the rules of the comp rubric while assfucking the spirit of them. If instead of the comp rubric, the tourney organizers had just stated "We want this event to be for interestingly themed lists, please bring one if you want to participate", I think players would be more inclined to go along with the intended spirit of the event.
Wow my space wolves scored -90, so basically I have to buy and paint models that I'll never outside of this event just to play in this event? Yeah f that noise.

My paladin death star army scored a perfect 80 though.... wtf?
NChomsky3d's avatar

NChomsky3d · 715 weeks ago

Full comp GK, 60 PAGK bodies, 14 psycannons, and I can potentially make everything scoring with the GM (1850 exactly):

Grand Master
-3x Servo Skulls
-Rad Grenades
-Blind Grenades

Purifier Squad x10
-4x Psycannons
-5x Halberds (JC)

Strike Squad x10
-2x Psycannons
-Psybolt Ammo

Strike Squad x10
-2x Psycannons
-Psybolt Ammo

Strike Squad x10
-2x Psycannons
-Psybolt Ammo

Purgation Squad x10
-4x Psycannons
-Psybolt Ammo

Interceptor Squad x10
-2x Incinerator
-1x Daemonhammer
-Psybolt Ammo

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