Kirb your enthusiasm!


"Pink isn't a color. It's a lifestyle." - Chumbalaya
"...generalship should be informing list building." - Sir Biscuit
"I buy models with my excess money" - Valkyrie whilst a waitress leans over him

Tuesday, September 13, 2011

Ogre Kingdoms Now & Then - The Then

Saramoff has been kind enough to write a whole review of the Ogre Kindgoms recent 8th edition release. It's a ten part series which includes an introduction post looking back at the old Ogre Kingdoms and then nine posts which look at the new Ogres, how things have changed and basically an army book review. Sounds good - let's get started with the look back at the old Ogres book so we can move onto the new stuff and get to use all those amazing new models. It's a long read as this post covers the whole of the previous codex.

With the advent of the Ogre Kingdoms being rereleased for 8th edition, isn't it time we walked down memory lane, nostalgia goggles rosed up and tinted so we could look back at what is, compared to what will be?

I've decided to try and take my hand at writing up a Then & Now comparison for the Ogre Kingdoms. Let's review what we know and see if times change for the better.

The Old book was written by a certain Phil Kelly. Back in 2003 before he got around to Space Wolves and Dark Eldar, the gods of Games Workshop instructed him to write out a book for the Ogre Kingdoms. And so he did, and what a wonderful trip it was. It was so full of cool and interesting fluff about our favourite fatties. All the possibilities of an Ogre Clan or family, their markings and rituals and where they get their equipment from.

Then you read the rules, expecting that your army of ogres would be a match and beat the face off those dark elves or daemons. Surely, Might makes right?

Not entirely.

Ogres had a few things going for them but they never really hit the level needed to make them something better. They had a fair few dud units to contend with, whilst the rest was overpriced for what it did. 8th edition came out and helped to drag it out of the gutter, but the bar was raised further in other armies, thus they could not achieve their potential.

You had a few gems in the rough though, so let's briefly go through our options.


Pretty much mandatory, shaving 200 points off your army to just exist. Most lords have better weapon skill, initiative and starting equipment and they cost 50 points less, whilst you gain 2 wounds and an extra attack or something. Comes with light armour and a club standard. You can gear him out and he's the only one that can get a decent Big Name, and he has a normal magical item budget.

All in all, he can beat face, much like a diamond encrusted pimp cane can be used to save you using a TV remote by pushing on the power button from your chair.

You can give him a great weapon (decent, but you have initiative 4, so against other characters you strike last all the time anyway), additional weapon (not really), ironfist (slightly better), cathayan longsword (+1 WS and I, armour piercing. Best of your mundane choices). Can also take a brace of hanguns to compliment your ballistic skill of an elf archer for 10 points. You have to buy heavy armour?! For 6 points. Can take two sword gnoblars or a luck gnoblar.

Not looking too flashy at all. How do we make him work? Give him a Cathayan Longsword, Greyback Pelt (-1 to hit in close combat, no yhetees), Glittering Scales and Mawseeker (+1 toughness but no stupidity). This costs you 280 points. For a WS7 guy with a -2 penalty to hit in close combat, T6 and W5. Defensive, hard to kill in a challenge and can hit back well enough. Still overpriced. If you want a level 4 wizard, you need him, so he needs to be decked out properly.


200 points for a level 4 wizard With WS4, S4, T5, W5 and 4 attacks. No armour. If you play storm of magic, you can slap him on a fulcrum and I guarantee a bright wizard can't melee you to death. Still expensive for what it can do, plus you need to buy a Tyrant. His price tag is close to 400-600 if you want him. Yeah, no. 100 points of magic items and immunity to poison. Give him a bangstick and a dispel scroll and you can do a fair bit of damage. Overpriced, can't take him on his own, still not impressive at all.


Shave off 70 points from your Tyrant and you lose a point of weapon skill, a wound, a point of initiative, an attack and a dot of leadership. You still have only light armour and a weapon. Your mundane equipment costs less (By about 2 points each) and you only get a 50 point budget on your magic bling. Looking promising, except you can't buy enough stuff to deck him out properly. Bugger. Can be a Battle Standard Bearer by tacking on 25 points and more magic item restrictions.

The issue is that he's actually not horrifically priced. If you take a bruiser as a general and one as your BSB, you can't afford a butcher for magic support. No, you need a tyrant for a slaughtermaster. Yes, you will have to buy a tyrant anyway to be your general, and your bruiser is your battle standard bearer. Suck it up, fatty.


Hunter: For 145 points you take a bruiser, add a point of leadership and ballistic skill and give him a shoddy bolt thrower. 50 points of magic items however. You can buy two sabertusks at 20 points each, which aren't too bad. No mundane equipment.

Never seen because of two things. One, he can't be your general. Two, you need a bruiser for a battle standard and a butcher for your magic support if you don't take a Slaughtermaster. Goddamnit Kelly. Doesn't provide much, just a half rate bolt thrower and two big cats.


Costs 130 points like the bruiser. No armour. Your level 2 wizard Has 1 less weapon skill, wound, point of initiative, attack and dot of leadership than a slaughtermaster. 50 points of magic items, immunity to poison. Hey, he doesn't look too bad and being level 2 is by all means not shabby, especially considering the only thing that's better is a lord choice. Bang stick and a dispel scroll and he's good to go. Worth taking for lack of better, but decent.


Standard fatties. Comes with a weapon. 35 points. You can give him an additional weapon for 4 points (no thanks) or an ironfist for 5 points (the benefit of an additional weapon when I need more attacks, and the benefit of a shield (only in close combat, useless against ranged weapons) when I need a parry save? For 1 point more, no brainer). Light armour for 3 points. Champion and banner costs you 20 points (almost 2/3rds the cost of a normal bull), musician costs you 10. Look-out gnoblar (which is useless as far as I can tell) for 5 points.

That's it. Oh, and you have to take at least 3, no matter what.

Overpriced compared to what it comes up against. Sure, you get your impact hits (if you're further than 6 inches away) and 3 support attacks per ogre, and stomps, but you can only pump out so much damage before the initial attacks you have to face (initiative 2) chip away at your unarmoured, lardy asses. You can't gear them up either. An ogre with an ironfist and light armour is 43 points. An irongut is 48. What would you rather take?

Take 3, run them naked for your butcher/slaughtermaster to run with so he has some additional wounds, don't look back. No, bull deathstars don't work because you're one initiative test away from a purple sun eating your unit.


Your ogre bull can upgrade from his 35 ungeared self to a 48 point irongut. These hardy ogres claim the best loot and are well respected for their ability to cleave people in half with 10 foot weapons. For 13 points, you gain heavy armour, a great weapon and a dot of leadership. I'm pretty certain that isn't worth it, but we'll keep going further.

Champion and Banner cost 20 points, musician costs just 10. Look-out gnoblar for 5 points. Oh! You can get a magical banner of up to 50 points. A nice addition, seeing as you want to spend even more points.

Yet, people take Ironguts. At initiative 2, bulls usually strike last anyway so you want to cause more damage when you do. Ironguts can take some hits better, that was until parry saves came along and your bulls with ironfists could get a 6+ ward save. Still not better as that bull costs 40 points anyway. Plus the addition of a magic banner, letting you take a Rune Maw so you don't get a purple sun shot at you every turn without fail.
4 Ironguts with a Champion, Banner, Musician and a Rune Maw sets you back 262 points. For 4 ogres?! I can get 48 Clanrats with a full command, shields and spears for 260 points. They don't hit at strength 6 but they don't need to with that many clanrats in a horde.

Take 4 with a full command for 242, you really don't have much choice.


A green, non ogre substitute. For 2 points each, you get a WS2, S2 walking wound that has a thrown weapon without quick to fire, but 2x multiple shots. You can buy a champion for 2 points, but no banner or musician. At the start of every phase, you roll a dice. If you roll a 1, they do absolutely nothing for that turn. They move at 4 so can't keep up with your ogres. Still, they provide your flanks with cover and can tarpit something nasty until you realise that leadership 5 cannot reliably keep in combat, nor can the lack of a banner or musician help you out.

The real reason you don't see that many gnoblar units is because you need a unit of ogre bulls to take a unit of gnoblars. Bullshit restrictions aside, they do a decent job of protecting flanks and will harass your enemy by throwing sharp shit in their face and tying them up for a round or two of combat. Then they break because they have no command group and get run down due to their movement speed of 4.

50 gnoblars with a champion is 102 points and is the best you'll get.


6 point Gnoblars that don't count towards the core and are restricted to 1, unless you take a hunter in which case you could take two. You won't have a hunter so you're stuck with 1.

4 points over a normal gnoblar gets you the scout and skirmish rule. If you have a hunter nearby they use his leadership but seeing as you don't, you'll rely on your leadership of 5. If you did have a hunter, your units of trappers could use a stand and shoot reaction against the unit for free without a -1 penalty to do so. The only issue here is that you've scouted, so you're out of range of your sharp stuff.

16 trappers and a BS4 champion sets you back 100 points. If you add 2 more points, you could get the above 50 normal gnoblars and a champion.


55 point ogre bulls who get light armour and a leadbelcher cannon, in a unit size of 2-5 fatties. The cannon counts as a club in close combat. Otherwise they have a range of 12", hit at strength 4 with armour piercing and roll an artillery dice worth of hits. A misfire makes your entire unit take D6 S4 hits and that cannon doesn't fire. They take no penalties for long range, moving or multiple shots. Once they fire, you can't fire them again unless you take an entire turn reloading them, which means doing absolutely nothing for one turn.

The myriad of problems with this unit should be apparent. When you get within 12" of the enemy you fire your cannons, most likely hurting your own unit of leadbelchers in the process. You kill a few rank and file men and now no longer have any shots left to pummel them with unless you spend a turn doing nothing. You can stand and shoot with your cannons either, but not if they're reloading. If you do stand and shoot, you have your leadbelchers standing around doing nothing, and they'll most likely ignore you. They could be charged, but you're throwing expensive, naked bulls into combat. The enemy now has ample time to charge you and bring you down. You only have 5 ogres so you have the fighting power of ogre bulls, without the parry save of ironfists.

55 points each. A champion and a musician costs you 10 points each. If you did take 4 it costs you 240 points, 260 with a champion and musician. A champion without BS4. 4 ironguts with full command costs 242 points.


An ogre with S5 and I4, M7 and a -1 penalty to hit anything if an enemy is in base contact with your yhetees. They can also Scale Terrain which makes my head hurt trying to decipher the rule. Their Icy Weapons count as being magical until hit by a flaming attack, where they're just normal weapons again. Flaming attacks are abundant so you can be sure this'll happen. Also immune to Ice Magic. 8th edition doesn't have ice magic.

For a whopping 65 points you can move an inch further and hit at strength 5. Their aura may help your characters, but anything in a special slot in another army has WS4 anyway, so they now hit you on 4s instead of 3s. You aren't any tougher because you have no armour. You can't be joined by characters so there goes any benefit your aura would have, so you have to use your yhetees to multiple charge. They'd fill a support roll well if they actually hit hard enough to warrant the points.

65 points each. Champions are 20 points. 280 points for 4 yhetees and a champion. 4 Ironguts with a full command cost you 242 to compare.


165 points for a war machine with chariot rules. It is a warmachine, but it sort of isn't because it's a chariot. Comes with T5, W5 and a 4+ armour save. You do D6 impact hits without a stomp. You are bad tempered, not frenzied like you'd assume a rhinox to be but simplified rules like Frenzied are newer so we'll not hold it against it. It also has a stonethrower with a large template that has the killing blow rule. The Misfire chart is also not good, but misfires never usually are.

Being a large template means if it does actually hit you have a good chance of rolling a lot of dices and getting more rolls of a 6 for the killing blow. Ultimately, it costs more than it should but it provides you with the ranged support you need. It doesn't do terribly bad in close combat all things considered, but it's nothing you want to charge into anything remotely considered a monster.

Take one at least, 2 because the rest of the special slots are terrible if you have the points and want more joy when you roll a 6.


Ogre mercenaries without peer. Maneaters have seen all the horrors that the old world can produce and have come back successful and stronger than ever. For 80 points, what do we get?

WS4, BS4, S5, T5, I3, 4 attacks and LD8. You're immune to psychology, stubborn and you can mix and match weapons freely. You can buy heavy armour for 4 points, cathayan longsword for 6 (bargin), great weapon (6 points for ignoring your average initiative for S7 hits, on top of not having a cathayan longsword), or a brace of handguns (6 points for the ability to shoot, average).

Other than having quirky and fun models, Maneaters are lackluster. It seems the actual maneaters are still out partying, eating entire feasts for snacks and brofisting Golgfag in the next army book.

Lackluster doesn't mean unusable.

1 Maneater with a Greatsword costs you 86 points. Take a Tyrant with Fencer's Blades, Glittering Scales and a Greyback Pelt for 295 points. Your 381 point train of trouble is arranged in a rank of 1 and runs straight into the nearest enemy deathstar lead by something like a Chaos Lord or Vampire Lord. Your tyrant issues a challenge and they will probably accept. Seeing as they cannot hit a character in a duel and nothing in the rest of your unit is touching their base, they can't attack you. Meanwhile, their unit is touching the tyrant's base, meaning you get 4 S7 attacks at I1 to slog at them whilst you duel. The duel will go on forever, as you're WS10 and -2 to hit, so unless they have WS10 too they need a 6 to hit, then to wound and then to deal enough wounds. You hold up that unit for the entire game whilst the rest of your army dies around you.
For 381 points, you too can make a trolltrain. Fun and hilarious but ineffective in the grand scheme of things.

Otherwise, 4 maneaters with braces of handguns cost you 344 points. 4 with great weapons still costs you 366 points. 4 with cathayan longswords is still 344 points. Put a kitted bruiser or tyrant in with them and pretend you're a deathstar. You certainly have the price tag for one.

Slave Giant:

2 pages of rules. Yuh oh.

Not stubborn like other giants. S6, T5, W6, I3 and the only unit in your army book that has LD10. They suffer no panic for smaller units running away. A large target that causes terror. Moves as fast as an ogre.

Whenever it's beaten in combat, if it's fleeing at the start of your turn, crosses an obstacle, does a special Jump Up And Down attack or plain dies it might fall over if you roll a 1. You roll a scatter, that's the direction it keels over. If you're underneath it, you get hit, partially hits on a 4+. Does a S6 hit with D3 wounds and counts towards combat resolution if your giant Jumps Up And Down. When it does this, it takes a wound, no questions asked. Getting up costs you it's entire movement phase. If you flee whilst you've fallen over, your giant just plain dies again. If your giant can pursue, you don't pursue but get up instead.

It doesn't stop there.

They get special snowflake levels of attacks. If you fight anything 'big', which is usually monstrous infantry, a monster, a warmachine or whatever then you Yell And Bawl (you automatically win combat with 2 combat resolution, good thing), Throttle With Chain (toughness test or take 2d6 wounds, no armour saves. Also good) or 'Eadbutt (1 automatic wound, no armour saves, if it hasn't attacked it doesn't attack back, good on heavy hitting characters) depending on your D6 roll

If you fight anything smaller, you Yell And Bawl (not too great seeing as you'll be facing something steadfast), Jump Up And Down (2d6 S6 attacks that allocate as shooting, might fall over, will keep doing this if you roll it once until it dies or falls over, then it'll die again), Flail With Chain (D6 S6 attacks, less potential damage than Jumping but allows you to actually get a chance to do something else) or Pick Up And...

And we have to look at another dice roll to see what we do now. Oh, important note is that the enemy gets to make a single attack to not be picked up. If it hits and wounds the giant, the giant doesn't pick up the model and reading this counts for nothing.

They either get Stuff Into Bag (removed as an effective casualty unless your giant dies, then they are freed at the end of the battle and don't award points), Thrown Back Into Combat (picked up model takes a wound with no armour save, deals D6 S3 attacks to the unit), Hurl (thrown 12" away into a randomly picked enemy unit nearby, same result as Thrown Back Into Combat for that unit, if there's no unit treat it as Thrown Back Into Combat anyway), Squash (plain outright dead), Eat (less plain, more outright dead) or Pick Another (model is put away like Stuff Into Bag, enemy gets to roll a single attack again to avoid being picked up.

A fun, interesting, random unit that will get destroyed by a warmachine in the first few turns. If it gets to combat, then you have to use the 15 minutes you spend every night remembering the Slave Giant rules to roll a few dice and see if something zany happens.

175 points. For me, 175 points for an even better model is not worth 2 pages of rules for something that will take two cannonballs to the chest and die.


Gorgers are surprisingly decent, in comparison with everything else. They get an enhanced S5, T5, W4, 4 attacks, unbreakable and have killing blow. They basically work like Ambushers do, and move towards the nearest enemy like they have frenzy without the +1 Attack. They always Pursue and can never overrun.

Gorgers fill a vital role in your army, in that your rare slots aren't too good and you need something to tie up and kill warmachines. Gorgers enter play, hopefully near a warmachine, wait a turn and begin to eat the crew to let your ogres not suffer multiple wound weapons. All this costs you 75 points, which is not horrific but still a little overpriced.

It's not like you'd take any other special choices anyway.

150 points for 2 gorgers to tie up enemy warmachines or gank anything on the back rows. This is less than a single scraplauncher, so all in all not bad.


Ogres were considered one of the lowest armies currently due to having a lot of dud units, little flexibility and even though they could win combat resolution by sheer wounds, T4/W3 doesn't cut it when you can get a lot of multiple wound attacks. They have no armour either, which is big and they have to pay for it, which makes their point cost big.

I'm not getting into magic items or big names because frankly, nothing out of them shines so hard that it's worthwhile. A simple review of gut magic: Short range augment spells that hurt your butchermaster but he can regain wounds as well and everything casts on a 3+. Good, cheap but doesn't have the range nor anything to bring the hurt to the enemy. Other than S7 Irongut hits of course. Nobody likes those.

What was the point in this article?

A reminder of what was, to compare to what's new.

Whilst the new book has hit the shelves already, due to me being away at the ATC this is a bit late but as Saramoff as pointed out, it gives insight into what was. The next posts will be looking at ever section there is within the new book so get your clubs ready!

Follow us on Facebook!

Related Posts Plugin for WordPress, Blogger...