Side note: please don't discuss PP v GW prices/game systems/etc., this was just used as a relative reference point. I've always maintained if I could buy 40k in Australia that was 10-20% more expensive than the rest of the world, I'd buy it locally to support locals. *waits on GW*
Anywho, here's the Wayland letter.
Hello Wargames fans!
Just a quick update on the ROW situation. The boss made a statement the other day but to make it clearer for those that dont have access to Facebook and other media. Here is a more detailed version.
Guys, its Rich the boss here. This message is related to the ROW situation and how long it will take to get something moving.
We know there is lots of frustration out there about the delays, we can only apologise and seek to explain what is going on.
This undertaking is very complicated and as mentioned previously we are about to move warehouses and we don't have unlimited resources to do all this at once at least not properly. The ROW stock requires significant extra space to be allocated to it and so we cannot list the majority until that space is available be that in the UK or elsewhere :). We had hoped this would be quicker than it has been, but the change of new warehouse very close to the move date impacted these efforts. In a detailed survey we found asbestos in the previous target warehouse and reluctantly had to withdraw. However almost immediatley we had an alternate and in fact better location. So we have been focussing on getting that location up and running. The building works we are having done are almost complete but its difficult to say the exact completion and handover date.
We will try and keep people upto date but until we get the green light that building works are complete at the new Warehouse the clock can't really start to tick.
However one quick remark we would like to make is that these parallel efforts to supply rest of the world customers in no way breaches any suppliers current trade terms and conditions. We are a legitimate and well respected business and can and will operate within the law and will enthusiastically defend our right to carry out legitmate business in whatever way and means we have available.
This takes significant resources, the Warehouse move and build are costing the average price of a house in the UK, the ROW solution is costing approximately the same, legal advice etc is a significant chunk of funds and we also have to continue to maintain our reserves.
So just to clarify, we are doing it, it will happen as soon as we possibly can but as we are small we need to make sure we do it right and properly first time. Apologies for any false expecations we might have raised, but when it happens you will understand why we took our time.
Also, regarding Finecast we will be making a Finecast statement next week with our update on the situation.
Keep on wargaming!
All the best,
Rich.
Logging you in...
Cloudhammer 57p · 710 weeks ago
Someguy · 710 weeks ago
@bryce963 · 710 weeks ago
No characters, no blisters.
TyRaide · 710 weeks ago
Honestly, I think the way GW have treated their independent stockists is shameful, it's attributing blame to others for their own failure to plan. On the whole GW are a fantastic company, but their management should recognize that to keep their product strong they need volume of sales, and this can only be achieved with stockists like Wayland, Maelstrom ect.
Firstius · 709 weeks ago
Putty · 710 weeks ago
Sorry... can't actively endorse a product which company doesn't allow its customers to choose where they buy it from.
Too happy with Malifaux now to even give a shit about GW. =P
Karnstein · 710 weeks ago
Right now I collect 3 different games:
a) 40k, where I own a good amount of both DE and Eldar models. Except for some MO-only models and some 2hand stuff I bought nearly everything from Maelstrom and Wayland. And I don't feel ashamed. I paid 45€ for a Eldar force box in the Uk some years ago and that was something like a 35+% discount. I'm a student and not a stock exchange trader, so my funds are limited...
b) Dystopian Wars: bought the starter box from Maelstrom, everything else locally after the indi store started stocking them. The price difference is less than 10% and a lot of DW models have a pocket money price, so they fall into the "buy without thinking if you really need them" category.
c) Warmachine: While some prices are a bit steep imho (new bane thralls for example), there isn't a big price difference between UK and German prices for WM/H stuff except for books. And I only pay when the models are in store. I don't pay in advance and suffer from a change in stock status and supply problems. Still waiting for my WM-core rules I ordered more than 1 month ago through Maelstrom.
SageoftheTimes 77p · 710 weeks ago
I think the online stores have mostly been ignored, and recently, they found a large amount of the buys were coming from online stores, due to the whole global Great Depression II, so they decided to hit it before everyone was buying from less expensive alternatives.
Combine this with the fact that they toss back and forth responsibility of prices, I somehow doubt GW's gonna change it's stance much.
alex · 709 weeks ago
Comics? Ummm.... how many more comic market is there? Kids are still excited with comics when video game is there? Street Fighter is a well known name, their comic die pretty quickly. Fail market. Back then, we have poor video gaming and bad TV, comic helped pass the time. WOW tried comic, too, yeah... fail.
RPGs.... yeah.... competing with D&D just to sell a few more books.... not a big market. I do want to be pretend as Vulkan and craft some badass weapon. Online RPG is where the money at.
Where is the next obvious market have the biggest market that relate to GW? Video games.
Kirby 118p · 709 weeks ago
alex · 710 weeks ago
Wayland wants to tell you how much they value your business. No shit, who isn't in it for the money?
No money, no support, who wants to invest into competitive events to bring up Aus's gaming level?
Some how I can see the GW games will die off in Aus in the future, and people play them in their basements. Hey kids, isn't that great? Whatever you buy from Wayland will soon to be trash in Aus.
We all know why GW increase price on Aus, because lack of local support. I don't see them increase 50% in US.
Fuck you online store who undercut the locals.
Karnstein · 710 weeks ago
The biggest enemy of every FLGS is GW itself, because
a) if your store is in a bigger city and the area creates enough sales, you will get a GW store...and that where the target audience goes to. Young kids/teenager w/o a paypal account or credit card.
b) GW are the ones who set up the prices, incl. the imbalances between different countries in the modern ages of the internet.
c) Not everybody who plays 40k does that at a store with a decent gaming area. Which means those people are buying online anyway, because you don't drive 50+miles just to find out that the next small store doesn't stock the models you need. And if you're not playing in a store and buy online anyway, why not take the one with the best prices? Should a Aus gamer living close to nowhere buy online in a Sydney store, just to preserve that store incl. the 1-2 gaming tables he won't play on anyway?
Not to mention that both MG and WL have a gaming area too and host&sponsor bigger events than most other independent stores... I've seen the pictures from the WM/H ETC tournament hosted by MG and that event at least rivals the local TOS here in Germany, hosted by GW themselves in their flagstore sitting beneath the German HQ.
alex · 709 weeks ago
GW being evil. Does that need to be repeated? Geez.... It's common known fact. How many companies doing business isn't for money? Beside charity, and even Churches or Buddhist temples are in it for the money.
If you are a FLGS owner knowing Wayland is going to supply Aus again, are you going to be cheerful? GW already raised the price to save their own stores, so the FLGS got stuck with the high price. Now you tell me, is the GW stores making enough sales to little kids before? How about now with the higher price? If the parents were cheap before, so they'll buy more now?
Now we talk about the adult gamers with money. People who have to drive 50+ miles to get some toy are consider minority to business. As bad as it sounds, who cares about the minorities. It's so sad that they don't have the model when you go over to the store. GW offers free shipping on order over $30. When you have a local business, will you try so hard to reach out to those few people in the middle of nowhere?
With internet, knowing one website that can save you 35% and another known as the Evil company. Yeah... doesn't take a genius to choose where to shop online. Only the true GW supporters will buy from GW, and kudos to them.
I would raise the price too if business is bad. It sounds retarded? No. If you have any sense of business, you should know why. If no, I can break it down so it's easy to understand. GW toys is not an everyday product. If I lower my price, there will be a sudden increase of sales, right? Great, now you look at this in a long run. How often does people buy a full set of army every 3 to 4 months? Not that many. If the gamers already got their armies, and they are not buying anything new for awhile, what's going to happen in the later months and years? Now we raise the price, when some supporter buy 1 box which equals the usual 2, I'm making money. Of course they have to cut staff, benefits, and such to reduce cost, too. Just so they can keep the store going, and then block online sales to Aus, so money have to go to GW or FLGS. GW didn't do all this because they were bored.
If you still don't see that, forget it.
Wayland going around the plan and supply Aus again. Guess what will happen now? GW did what they can to save their stores, and Wayland just reset it. Means they have to put up more restriction, and the bad business goes on till the game die off.
Wayland sponsor bigger events is just another way stealing more business from the local. Strengthen their brand and people will slowly switch over and shop Wayland. Geez... when did Wayland became a charity business?
I'm excited Wayland is doing this. Just to watch how they screw over Aus's GW games.
Rawrtime 31p · 709 weeks ago
GW Australia dont run any good tournaments to increase or invest in the Australian gaming level... so saying that those Aussie gamers that dont want to spend a massive amount extra for each purchase for some non-existent benefits that GW give is is a joke.
The only benefit any Australians get from GW stores is the initial painting and modeling tutorials that they do with you when you first splash out on a tonne of models. We dont get any of the benefits that GW stores provide in other countries, such as grand tournaments and good GW run events.
I just checked, and GW Australia has 0 upcoming tournaments this year and dont expect that to change anytime soon.
If GW wants Aussie gamers to come and support their product not just feel ripped off and like they dont care about us, they actually need to provide the support that we are paying a premium for. In other countries (such as US) there are many GW run tournaments and events to build the game and keep us interested and loyal as opposed to going out of our way to order from places like Wayland to get our plastic crack fix.
Before anyone gets to saying that we dont have access to the tournaments and events in the same way because we have a much smaller player base... How would the US or other countries grow their player base to those sizes without the GW support that they continually have, and then to come and say that the price rises and shipping embargo's are justified when Aussies never had those opportunities.
I say shove that
Guestivus · 709 weeks ago
Do we need to keep repeating it?
1. GW is pretty nasty to many of it's independent retailers.
2. GW ALREADY doesn't offer prize and tourney support in lots of places, and the program was pulled in Canada BEFORE internet stores got big.
3. Local game shops started dying LONG before the internet stores; they started dying because GW would open a store in a place that was selling well and undermine the independent store's efforts.
4. If you really just care about the local game store, there are lots that survive by selling a wide variety of things to a wide variety of people and drawing in customers by just being nice places to be in for a while.
In short - nobody on here is advocating that we want our locals shut down and out of business (I certainly don't, mine is quite nice) - the point being made is that there's WAY more to the hobby than GW's prices, that GW doesn't actually offer much, if any real support to either stores or the playerbase in Australia (and out here in Canada), and that the arguments they make in order to justify their price increases are undermined by the fact that, in Australia, or Canada for that matter, you can get similar products THROUGH YOUR LOCAL STORE from other companies with only a 10-20% markup. You can peddle bullshit about how GW needs to charge you more to support their own stores, but that's exactly the point - I don't give a hoot about GW's stores - I want my locals to survive and thrive, and if GW won't let them do it, then so be it - there are other sources.
alex · 709 weeks ago
If the Aussies didn't care about the GW stores to start with, why would GW invest more into a fail market? They did what they can to save some GW stores just so some people can go and enjoy. Now Wayland trying to break that restriction which will kill those stores.
Shutting down a market on an entire country is rough. I expect more restrictions if Wayland succeed, or some inside business to business deal.
It sucks to see where this is going, because I want to see Aus's tournaments take off, so Kirby and the gangs feel comfortable enough and come over to NOVA to loot some fame. Specially 3++ have a good market in US.
Someone sponsor these guys, yo
WhoNeedsAName · 709 weeks ago
Because if they invested more into their stores and their stores had more to offer than 2-3 tables that are only 4' by 4' for 3 different game systems then it wouldn't be such a fail market. You can't expect people to spend money in your crappy store in order to get the funds to make it better, the world doesn't work like that. You have to make gw stores worth peoples time and effort before people will be willing to buy locally to support their stores.
I don't bother with gw stores anymore but buying from gw online is still stupidly overpriced compared to wayland for example I'm interested in starting a dark eldar army. If I were to buy this army from gw online store it'd cost me $1254 and whatever it'd cost me to buy a bunch of extra blasters from bitz stores since gw doesn't sell them separate like it does with marine melta guns.
If I were to buy it from wayland games it would of cost me $569.13 including shipping +$28 for the haemonculus from gw online and + whatever it costs to get more blasters from bitz stores.
I don't mind paying 10% maybe 20% extra from gw compared to wayland but over double the price? Sorry but that is bull shit.
artemi7 78p · 709 weeks ago
They seem to be doing just fine for business. Just last year, they bought the property next to them in the strip mall thing they are in and knocked down the connecting wall, just to have more space for tables and such. Mostly everyone is cool, and sure, not everyone is buying Warhammer, but with all the other stuff they sell, along with chips, pop, dice, and all other manner of gaming accessories they seem to getting along ok.
And how does this work? Because it takes the various hobby groups as a whole and unites them under one common purpose; having a cool place to shop and hang at. No one game system (or one group that follows a specific system) has to do all the work buying and keeping the place active. When you have a dry spell in, say, Warhammer codexes or army books, that's fine;. there is going to be another Magic expansion (four times a year, like clockwork. How hard is that, GW?) or WM/H model or SOMETHING.
It really works. And is the exact reason why GW stores don't.
Firstius · 709 weeks ago