Hey Kirby,
Your site helped me a lot in building my Space Marine army. Basically I have a standard twin rock armylist after following your suggestions. Sometimes I'll swap in a Librarian instead of Vulcan, or a Rifleman instead of the MM Dread, but I have been doing better lately when using the Salamanders' Forgefather.
190 Vulcan
215 Tactical Squad x10 (Meltagun, ML, Rhino)
215 Tactical Squad x10 (Meltagun, ML, Rhino)
115 Dreadnought (MM, HF)
400 Terminator Assault Squad (x10 TH/SS)
275 Land Raider Crusader (MM, EA)
275 Land Raider Crusader (MM, EA)
85 Predator
85 Predator
70 Land Speeder (MM, HFlam)
70 Land Speeder (MM, HFlam)
____
1995
It's solid though like most rock lists you have minimal scoring at this points level. I'd really prefer a Libby as you could spend the extra points and grab two Dreads to help with your firepower but Vulkan also makes the firepower you have more potent.
What has been biting me in the ass, on occasion, is the lack of Troops. After losing one (or both) I have to push for a draw. Wouldn't running a Dark Angels army starring Belial solve this issue, as now I can run a very similar army, but with four troops instead of two?
That's part of rock lists and it's a big reason why you don't see many of them doing well in W/L games (well I haven't seen any do well). A big advantage of W/L games is forcing the game to your preferred 'level.' Making a rock army play on the Objective level means they will be hard-pressed to win, etc. Running a DA army the exact same as this wouldn't solve your problems as it's not really taking full advantage of what Dark Angels can do. Running a Dark Angels Terminator list is certainly viable though.
130 Belial (Lightning Claws)
270 5x Termies (5x TH/SS, Apoth, Standard)
235 5x Termies (5x TH/SS, CML)
220 10 Tactical Squad (Meltagun, ML, Rhino)
220 10 Tactical Squad (Meltagun, ML, Rhino)
135 Dread (TLAC, ML)
100 Predator Destructor (PMSB)
265 Crusader (EA)
265 Crusader (EA)
75 Typhoon
75 Typhoon
____
1990
You've basically transplanted your list and really haven't gained anything other than more reliable scoring. One of the best assets of Deathwing is TH/SS + CML. Can't fire a CML whilst in a Land Raider. You're over paying for the Pred, Dread and Tac squads (who also don't have combat tactics) but have gained with the Typhoons. The lack of Vulkan though means you still don't have a huge amount of firepower but you're more likely to not be forced into "no Troop; must go for draw" situations.
This has been brought up in a previous comment on your site, I just want to know what you think about it. Has Belial made all other Space Marine Terminator armies obsolete?
-Steve"
The short and skinny is no. Dark Angels do a great list which is hard to shift from midfield whilst still packing melta but is very light on firepower. Vanilla are going to do your double Raider lists very well simply because their mech is so efficient whilst Vanilla and BA are still quite capable of running Terminator bubble-wraps. Space Wolves have Loganwing which is a unique mix of firepower, mobility and survivability (not only through statlines but actual model numbers). Black Templars run excellent shooting lists with their Terminators now and are also capable of running foot rock lists, etc. I think the style of list you are going for is still best done by Vanilla and if you're really having trouble with the scoring aspect, either switch to Thunderbubble (frees up all the points from the dropped Raiders) or change the 10 man squads to 5 man squads. This reduces the number of actual scoring models but increases the number of targets.
