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Wednesday, March 24, 2010

Email in: Triple Raider list for 'Ard Boyz



Let's build a Codex SM Tri-Raider list for 'Ard Boyz!

Start with the standard

400 - 10 TH/SS Termies
265 - Redeemer, MM, EA
275 - Crusader, MM, EA
410 - 2x 10 Tacticals, flamer, MM, rhino

I like the Redeemer/Crusader variety, we'll definitely be bringing 1
of each, so get that out of the way. I know a lot of folks have been
on the Razorback spam kick, but that's not my style. There are few
things more satisfying than a full Tactical double tap, so the
flamer/mm/rhino style is my choice.

We're bringing a 3rd Raider (hence the title of the email) so let's
add it now. We'll go with Crusader, but know we can save 10 points by
downgrading it if we need them.

275 - Crusader, MM, EA

We're already at 1625, which is kinda scary, and we still need
something in the 3rd Raider. It's not a simple decision.

Options
Assault Termies - best pure CC, "wastes" an elites and a HS slot
GKT (HQ version) - adds some shooting, unlimited range Hood,
allows/forces a non-Librarian HQ and opens an elite
Regular Termies - adds some shooting, opens a HS slot, doesn't "waste"
any points on a 2nd HQ

For now, we'll go standard, but depending on how points shake out, we
might change.

200 - 5 TH/SS Termies

We still need an HQ, so we'll go Librarian (no T armor for 'Ard Boyz,
how sad) for the utility and hood.

100 - Librarian, Null Zone, Gate of Infinity

At 1925 and we still need some transport/light armor busting, and I'm
not thrilled with only 2 troops choices. We're also down to 1 elite
and 1 HS choice. I'm a little leery of av10 in a 2500 point
environment, so let's add some transport popping with

125 - Rifleman
120 - AC/LC Pred

I also think a 3rd tactical is needed

205 - 10 Tacticals, flamer, MM, rhino

145 left, let's go with 2 MM/HF speeders and add a dozer blade or
melta bombs somewhere.

So that's

Libby
15 TH/SS Termies
3 LR (2 Crusader, 1 Redeemer, I'd put the Libby in the Redeemer)
3 tacs
Rifleman
AC/LC
2 MM/HF

Tough, but I'm not thrilled. I think 2 speeders will be toast in 'Ard
Boyz and one of their main uses, blocking movement, is much less
useful when you're the one with 3 LR full of Thunder.

Can we do better with one of our other Termie options? Let's try a
Regular termie squad. Since they have some shooting, let's pick up
that 10 points we left out earlier by trading a crusader for a
redeemer. If we then drop the 2 speeders and add a 2nd AC/LC in the
now open HS slot, that takes us to 2465, enough for a chain fist and
an assault cannon.

That gives us

Libby - Gate, Null
10 TH/SS Termies
5 Reg Termies - Chainfist, Assault Cannon
3 LR (2 Redeemer, 1 Crusader, Libby and 5 TH go in 1 Redeemer, Regs go
in the other)
3 Tacs
Rifleman
2 AC/LC Preds

I think this is better. We're a little short on MM, but 3 are on
tough LR chassis, and the other 3 are probably low priority targets.
We have 3 CC units, 3 transport busting units, 3 scoring units,
nothing av10, and the Rhinos should always have 4+ or be unseen behind
a LR.

That's my story. Thoughts Kirby?


Hmm, I think it becomes too many eggs in a basket and at 2500 pts, the opposing army can easily neutralise 3 Tacs, one Dread and 2 Preds. You're then focusing on killing nearly everything with your Raiders and Termies. So let's keep the Triple Raider but see if we can make the list more balanced.

We'll start off with the standard 1 Crusader/1 Reedeemer w/10 TH/SS & Libby setting us back 1010 points (assuming 2 MMs on the LRs). So we essentially have a 1500 list to make. We'll chuck in the extra LR but we'll make it a godhammer :O and add 5 Tacs to it (who will also buy a Rhino). Let's see what we can get from here:

HQ:
Libby w/Null & Whatever

Elites:
10xTH/SS termies
Land Raider Redeemer w/MM

Troops:
3x 10xTac w/MM/flamer/Rhino

5xIST w/2mguns

5xTac w/Rhino

Fast Attack:

Heavy Support:
Land Raider w/MM

Land Raider Crusader w/MM

which leaves us at 2080 pts and we've got a wee bit more anti-tank. Let's add 2 Riflemen Dreads and we've got 170 pts to play with, not much as we'd really like that extra 40pts for 3 Speeders. Lets Drop the Tacs & Rhino then (so IST go into the normal Raider), we've now got 295 so we can get 3 MM/HF or 3 Typhoon type Speeders. I think the MM/HF are better here as we can Deep Strike them or hide them behind the Raiders as needed. This gives us 85 pts to play with. We should take EA on the Raiders so that's a final 40 pts. 3 HKs on the Rhinos and a combi-melta on a Sarge.

HQ:
Libby w/Null & Whatever

Elites:
10x TH/SS termies
Land Raider Redeemer w/MM, EA

Dread w/2x TL AC

Dread w/2x TL AC

Troops:
10x Tac w/MM/flamer/combi-melta/Rhino w/HK missile

10x Tac w/MM/flamer/Rhino w/HK missile

10x Tac w/MM/flamer/Rhino w/HK missile

5x IST w/2mguns

Fast Attack:
Speeder w/MM/HF

Speeder w/MM/HF

Speeder w/MM/HF

Heavy Support:
Land Raider w/MM, EA

Land Raider Crusader w/MM, EA

Totals: 2500 pts
46 infantry
11 tanks

Thoughts?

Edit: Both GWvsJohn and I agree that Raider/Termies run much better at 2k points as there is less to threaten the Raiders and Termies whilst the army stays balanced. As he points out that extra 500points almost demands another raider and termies but your army doesn't expand as a balanced list which is the core of the problem we have discovered here at 2.5k.

4 pinkments:

Brent said...

Your e-mailer does a great job outlining his thoughts as he goes through making a list.

I have to say, I thought his list was good, then you went and made one that's a lot better.

Good job - good post.

Brent

GWvsJohn said...

I think Speeders are just going to be too easy to kill in a 2500 point environment. They will get 1 shot maybe. I don't think they add enough to justify the huuuge CC threat downgrade from Termies (even regular ones).

Kirby said...

I guess the problem I'm finding with your list GWvsJohn is there are only 3-6 major targets outside of the Raiders w/Termies. With the list I posted you've got 5-9 (inc. the Godhammer LR) which makes it more difficult for your opponent to neutralise the filler around the Termies. I agree with the Speeders but they are 3 different targets for your opponent to neutralise.

If you didn't want the speeders you could drop them, take an AC/LC pred and maybe a typhoon (you could also fiddle with points for a 2nd typhoon, i.e. drop the EA, HKs and an MM). This doesn't really drop your saturation, raises your average AV but still keeps your ability to damage transports alive.

The_King_Elessar said...

Hmmm. Not bad. Obviously the Libby and his Combat Squad go in the Crusader, to mess up the enemy's target priority a little?

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