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Wednesday, March 17, 2010

Vindicators in BA/SW

I won't do an article on the strengths and weaknesses of the Vindicator. Most of you know I'm not a fan of it due to it's short range, one gun and side armor combination as being very situational (as well as being very overpriced against MC lists). However, Raptor1313 does a good analysis here and I would recommend you read it. This mostly comes from browsing forums on SW and BA and seeing a lot of people taking 2-3 Vindis and lauding over them as fire magnets, etc. etc.

Both SW and BA are assault oriented armies. You can certainly make armies that are more shooty (i.e. 6 Preds) and disdain close combat all together but when you have lists with units like Terminators/Land Raiders, Thunderwolves, ASM, Vanguard, etc. (i.e. you are building an assault army) it is futile to take a Vindicator. Your army is designed to get close, even before combat with guns like meltaguns/bolters/flamers and what's the best tactic against Imperial Guard (generally)? Get close because their ordnance becomes less useful due to some min-ranges and the ability for blasts to scatter back onto the IG army. Whilst BA/SW assault oriented armies want you to get closer, sinking 250-400 pts into tanks that become less useful as you close with your enemy isn't the most tactically viable. With BA the Fast rule certainly opens up some more tactical choices in the ability to move 12" first turn and fire but is 1 or maybe 2 turns of "safe" shooting from 2-3 Vindicators really worth that many points? Honestly, no.

Again, I'm not a fan of the Vindicator but in such close combat oriented lists they seem to exaggerate all that I dislike about them and they don't make tactical sense. I don't like them in normal lists but you can argue for them rationally but with these type of lists it just seems...stupid. Now with the BA fast rule on them I think you can make some more impressive lists than you can with the Vanilla SM dex in relation to Vindicators but having any sort of close combat element to that army will make it less balanced and I think that will be playing away from the BA strengths...but we will have to see in that regard.

Anyone else have thoughts on this or is just my Vindicator dislike evolving :)?

2 pinkments:

Raptor1313 said...

I'm pretty much with you.

It's so-so against tanks.

It's so-so against troops in cover.

If you have assault troops, well, I'm sure they like eating AP2 wounds. I'm sure your Thunderwulf Cav loves them. I guess your TH/SS termies can mostly shrug it off, but do you really WANT to hand the enemy armor-ignoring wounds on them? Really? Really really?

I mean, they can instant-death stuff, and they will draw some fire, but honestly? If someone's willing to drop $6 on a Tac Template and use cover, you're kind of 'eh' against infantry.

I think if you're gonna use 'em, you'd use them as an advance/fire magnet for a short-ranged shooty list, and hope to god that the enemy tries to tag them, and that you can make their weaknesses work for you.

Now, you CAN get mileage out of the not-so-popular choices, but you just gotta understand what you're getting into. I'd rather have long-ranged guns, m'self.

MagicJuggler said...

I use them the way I use Devildogs in my Imperial Guard army. They serve as a formation-breaker. Against armies that set up vehicle phalanxes/rhino pinches/trains, they are quite handy for causing chaos. And they're one of the few things besides Railguns which can reliably threaten a Land Raider (or other vehicles with profiles larger than a Rhino) beyond Multimelta range. The smaller targets which a Vindicator tends to miss...tend to be better-dealt with by Lascannons/Missiles/etc. anyway.

As mentioned, they're fun to combine with Lash. The Blood Angels though have a plethora of fast tanks so they can beat Chaos at their own game through mass-tankshocks and template rape. (120 points for 6 Assault Marines and a Fast Heavyflamer Razorback? Yes please!). Even more so than before, you will have to mech up to survive, have defensive vehicles or be Tyranids.

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