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"Pink isn't a color. It's a lifestyle." - Chumbalaya
"...generalship should be informing list building." - Sir Biscuit
"I buy models with my excess money" - Valkyrie whilst a waitress leans over him


Thursday, May 20, 2010

Email in: Starting Eldar


"Salutations guy, as a new player to 40k I would like to ask you some questions regarding 40K and Eldar in particular (you don't have to post this on your blog, a simple email will suffice).

Well, I have been wanting to get into 40K for a while now, but instead of giving my story of going from zero to hero in 40K I'll direct you to these two links:
http://www.yesthetruthhurts.com/2010/04/usermail-site-mission.html
http://www.yesthetruthhurts.com/2010/05/usermail-site-mission-incarnate.html

These emails (sent by me to Stelek, who is a proverbial gold-mine of information such as yourself, fritz etc) lay the foundation of how I play 40k, what my goals are, and how I choose to play.


In short, I subscribe to the "weight of fire over AP" mentality as well as feature a strong desire to feature duplicity and redundancy. I was sold on weight of fire the first time I played a game with more than one Hydra Flak Tank. Wow those things are nasty.

So anyway, after completely reading over of Steleks, yours, and Fritz's articles (along with TKE's I believe) and the rulebook about a thousand times (as well as Fritz's best product, his tactics videos ) I built a couple of lists at two different totals (1500 and 2000, as those are most common where I live).

Thing is, while searching for inspiration I came across this: http://www.yesthetruthhurts.com/2009/12/eldar-analysis-different-way-of-doing.html

.....and I can't think of how to improve it, or really change it in any way. The only thing I can think of is to remove all the Falcons for Wave Serpents and then cut out the Vypers for Fire Prisms (which I'm not really sold on, as you know one weapon destroyed results sort of regulates them to surprise contesting for the rest of the game, coupled by the fact most players will probably try to shoot them first). I really like Vypers (not as much as Fritz) and the whole speed aspect they grant to the army.

The army works much like how a fellow poster put it, you can play the reserve game against IG efficiently with 2 Autarchs or just full deploy in what boils down into three columns with Wave Serpent in front ready to FD rush and Vypers in front of Falcons granting cover saves. Just move and shoot and put the 84 str 6 shots a turn beatdown on an army. A very critical mass concept indeed.

I see how the army can sometimes have troubles with LR spam (although 17 Melta shots plus assault plus 6 str 8 ap 2 three of which are lance) I'm not worried. Hang your LR's back, I'll get to them. They stay home? I get to them. Fleets a bitch ain't it lol.

Right now my plan is to by the army as posted, with no changes. Is there anything you could suggest (even if its just because the changes would fit your play style), I feel that all (educated) opinions could only make things better.

Sort of demoralized by not really making a 2000 pt list (would of been nice, but meh) I set out trying to make one for 1500 fully knowing Eldar start to feel squeezed under 1750. Once again though, Stelek beat me to the punch, the army I created was literally 3 units off of: http://www.yesthetruthhurts.com/2010/01/mafty-asked-in-this-thread-i-realize.html

I think I had no warwalkers with 3 additional Vypers, I was 30 points over and trying to figure a way of cutting it down. Seems like removing 3 Vypers and replacing them with what is essential the same load-out but 30 points cheaper gets there.

Again, the walkers outflank if needed with 2 SL's each. Thats plenty of str 6 at 36' that can outflank, move 6, and still shoot everything. I normally don't like Warwalkers (too slow as Sonic always says) but when you're squeezing for points, well....

I didn't take a Seer Council because everyone and their dad plays MEQ's where I live and everyone has plenty of Hoods or Rune Priest shenanigans. That means its either 2 Seer Councils (which leaves you with what, 2 troops max, doesn't seem good in my opinion) or a Seer Council using Eldard as back-up. I'm not sure if Eldard is worth it (boss as he is).

Sorry this is so long, I actually wanted to ask you about Psychology related stuff (whats you thoughts on Jung's dream analysis for example) but whatev'. Any further guidance or comments you could provide to me being a new player or just about Eldar would be awesome.

Again, thanks.

Meister_Kai"
 
Well woot! Apparently I’m a proverbial gold mine. Does this mean I get royalties? Humor aside, it is nice to get positive affirmation of what I (& others) are doing, not only on this blog but some of the more sensible blogs out there. It makes us feel like dragging ourselves out of bed at 6am to post is a worthwhile endeavour (okay I don’t actually do that...often).

Stelek’s S6 spam @ 2000 is a wonderful army, whilst I’m not a huge fan of 3x3 Vypers you’re really only going to be able to replace them w/Serpents. Whilst this might give your army more saturation and survivability, you’re losing out on firepower big time. Up to you in terms of trade-offs. If I wanted to build a list like that I would drop the Vypers down to single members, drop the TL-BLs on the Dragon serpents to Scatter Lasers and add in TL-BL DAVU Serpents which looks very similar to my lists though w/o Prisms. Again, you’re sacrificing firepower for survivability (you should be able to fit in 2-3 DAVU Serpents this way; also upgrade the Vypers to SS/SL).

So assuming 2 DAVUs it would be 69 S6 shots to 84 S6. One less S8 Lance shot and 11 (8 AV12) to 15 (6 AV12) tanks. Seems like a fair trade-off though can the ‘modified’ list deal with hordes as well? That’s where those 15 extra S6 shots will come in handy and without Prisms to back it up...

In regards to the 2nd list, I’m not a huge fan of Walkers but @ 1500 that’s a solid list. Has problems w/higher AV at range but again, a ton of S6 is heading downwind. If you didn’t want to take Walkers you could go 3x2 Vypers and have the Vypers w/all SC (no codex on me: is it possible to split weapon loadouts between them? Can’t recall) and you’ve got 30 odd points to play with.

In regards to general advice, just practice. Practice so much until you get bored then practice some more! Plus, playing is fun! Particularly with Eldar as it’s harder to get cover across your grav tanks compared to IG/SM armies (damn little boxcars of theirs)! From what I’ve read from you, you are decently well-read in 40k rules-wise which is important. Knowing your opponent can do such and such or has an army built around unit X allows you to appropriately plan and play out your game.

In regards to Seer Councils, I think you’re right to avoid them currently. Whilst they offer up some awesome conversion capabilities, you need to cough up twice for a Seer & Fortune and then your army really begins to orbit it, which is generally not good. When they work, they work. When they don’t...well your army generally doesn’t have enough in it to overcome the Council failing and the Council is increasingly likely to fail compared to other rock units like Terminators.

When you get your army up and running let us know! We love to keep hearing the positive.

P.S. learn to paint well and paint the army I linked at top. Please?

6 pinkments:

Chumbalaya said...

Freud was here, Jung sucks :P

I don't like War Walkers or big Vyper squadrons much myself, but it's hard to fit that much firepower in. Sure the units are frontloaded and will probably get 1-2 shooting phases in at full capacity, but that may be all you need.

Practice, practice, practice is indeed a good mantra for improving your game.

Ixe said...

Gah! The Eldar pic you posted just blew my mind!

I just recently found that my very nice looking bright yellow Iyanden were fading into muddy looking garbage with all kinds of brown specks appearing all over them. I have no idea why this is, but I am DONE with yellow, and I was looking for a new scheme that would be colorful and eye catching. I see those swirling vortices of purple on a black background and I say "yoink!" Mine won't look as good, but with something to copy from, freehanding's not that hard. What's hard is being enough of an artist to create that kind of stuff yourself.

Thud said...

Vypers are awesomesauce. I have recently expanded to 6 at 1750 and I can't imagine going back. :)

Meister_Kai said...

Hey, thanks for the words, and no, I don't like Warwalkers either, but they come in the battleforce (crappy battleforce armies YEAH) and are easily replaced so I don't feel that bad. Their low speed is also somewhat mitigated by the fact they can outflank then still shoot all their 36" range weaponry, and since they are so fragile they will probably not survive to shoot again unless they get cover.

Also, you're 2000 pt list changes will be easy to try out, in fact I'll probably be able to try them out before the actual list itself as I was planning on picking up 2 Falcons then seeing if I wanted the 3rd. The thing about Vypers is that people seemingly like to think low of them and either kill them right away (because their oh-so-easy to kill) or ignore them meaning I hopefully rape some of their tanks.

As for the paint scheme, I plan on doing something close to this http://www.gmmstudios.com/gallery/alpha/40k/ (the second eldar down with the frost-blue paint scheme). Unfortunately that paint isn't made anymore, but I will get as close as possible. I haven't painted anything in quite a while but I have the "How to Paint Citadel..." series (didn't buy them, but I have them...) so hopefully those will give me the tips I need.

Kirby said...

@Ixe; click the picture for more pics :P they are at the bottom of the page. It's an awesome army.

@Meister_Kai; that looks a lot like Hawk Turqouise (can't spell), maybe play around with that. In the end, the more models you have the more options you have ^^. Most of my stuff currently is old from 2nd/3rd edition and I just add to them as I adapt my army lists (plus my army lists before were crap =D; I used to love Rainbow Eldar).

Meister_Kai said...

That Turqouise was actually the exact color I planned to use, good eyes. As far as updating the army as it goes on, I'm going to make a habit of magnatizing every vehicle weapon, pretty sure that will pay off in the future.

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