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"Pink isn't a color. It's a lifestyle." - Chumbalaya
"...generalship should be informing list building." - Sir Biscuit
"I buy models with my excess money" - Valkyrie whilst a waitress leans over him

Thursday, May 20, 2010

AbusePuppy's Tyranid Review Part 6: He's Not Heavy Support, He's My Brother

Heavy Support

The big guns. Mostly composed of Monstrous Creatures, Heavy Support is where most of the non-Elites anti-tank power comes from, either shooting or CC. Virtually all the HS choices are expensive, so if you're planning an army out, you would be well advised to budget for this section early on.

The best unit in the codex last edition, now relegated to the Trygon's sad little brother most of the time. While many may argue over the relative virtues of the Carnifex in the new codex, the plain truth is that other, flashier units have surpassed it in its main role of "scary CC monster that you must kill," despite this not actually being what it was good at last time around. Carnifexes still have their uses, but they are much more niche than the "everyone needs three Sniper/Devilfexes" of the last codex.

The 'Fex is still the highest-Str unit we have and the only thing that can penetrate a Monolith in CC. Across-the-board stat boosts have turned it into a very formidable- if somewhat pricey- melee unit, and Living Battering Ram means that you have a reasonable chance of killing some stuff off before the Power Fist ruins your day completely. However, as noted, 'Fexes are expensive- even more so when taken in broods or with a Spore- so you'll often find yourself wondering if there isn't something better you could spend that 200-600pts on that might do the job as well or better. And, all too often, the answer is yes.

However, 'Fexes still do have a couple options left to them. In large games, when trying to saturate the field with as many MCs as possible, a brood of Screamer-Killers can be a worrisome prospect that adds to the enormous pile of wounds on the table. Being available in a brood also means that ICs can join them, which can mean amusing things if you want to abuse the Prime and Regen for everybody. And when it comes to dropping in a Spore, your options for shootiness are somewhat limited, so a 'Fex with some big guns can bring a nasty surprise.

So feel free to take a Carnifex if you want to- like a lot of units, they're not really nearly as bad as some people make them out to be. But realize that they aren't powerhouses and doing so means taking a hit to your competitiveness, which (depending on your group and personal style) may or may not be an issue.

Mycetic Spore: Well, it's there. As noted, a Trygon will often serve you better, since it has more wounds, better attacks, etc, if you're considering a melee or anti-infantry shooting DSer. (Consider: 2xDevouers+Spore costs you 230 for 12 TL shots, whereas a Trygon Prime is 240 for 12 regular shots and infinitely superior raw numbers as well as Synapse.) Still, it's an option to consider, since it does give you some distinctness from the non-Trygon MCs.

Crushing Claws: Nuh-uh. Not only are the super-expensive, you lose most of your rerolls, which the small number of extra attacks don't really make up for. (Remember, WS3, so generally hitting on 4+.) These are cool looking and that's about it.

TL Deathspitter: These aren't worth the keystrokes I used to type this. Not even if they were free.

TL Devourer: Two pairs of these are the general rule; with one, you're just confused about what you want to be doing. While you don't get the reroll to wound from last edition, your number of shots has gone up, so you're overall a lot better off (but again: more expensive.) This is still a pretty killer setup, however, putting out enough firepower to make even Terminators stand up and notice.

Stranglethorn Cannon: Like with the Harpy, this just doesn't really seem to be what you want. However, it seems like potentially a decent pair-up with the Devourer, giving you some extra reach and the potential to force two Ld test to wreck a unit.

Heavy Venom Cannon: One of the worst platforms for this weapon. BS3, no TL, no mobility- the only real potential would be a Spore and Bioplasma giving you some high-Str shots into the rear armor on vehicles the turn you arrive. Still seems mediocre.

Frag Spines: Oh, GW, you cad, giving us one of our very, very few sets of grenades on an I1 unit. It's almost like you're kicking us in the balls and calling us sad sacks on purpose. But that can't be true, right? Right? So yeah, Frag Grenades; not terrible, but generally not a priority, either. You could potentially strike at I4 on the charge, but that still isn't ahead of Marines, so I'm not all that impressed. They are cheap, at least. Oh, and if you wanna be wacky, you can use these against a vehicle that, for whatever reason, you don't want to destroy- they're still regular Assault Grenades. Imagine: a two-story tall mountain of chitin and muscle rubbing up against a Dreadnought like a friendly cat. D'awwwwww.

Adrenal Glands: Lets you get the above-mentioned I4 and pulp T5 guys on the charge. Also means auto-penetrates against everything but Land Raiders and Monoliths, although that's a very, very marginal benefit.

Toxin Sacs: No no no no no no no no no no no no no NO NO NO NO NONONONONONONO.

Bio-Plasma: Whoa, is this the only AP2 gun in the book? I think it is, my friends. (AP1 and AP3 need not apply, psychic powers don't count.) It's just a Plasma Cannon, and unfortunately doesn't sync well with the other gun options for the most part, as they want to cause large numbers of wounds and hope for some bad saves, while this lets you stack failures in convenient places. It does let you take a gun without losing the double Talons, though, which is nice. It's too bad you can't take a second, similar one to go with it.

Regeneration: Expensive, and kinda useless in broods unless you're abusing it with some Tyranid Primes. Not highly recommended.

Old One Eye
You know how old people are always dumb and worthless? Old One Eye basically exemplifies that fact. (Disclaimer: young people are also dumb and worthless, but some of them are also sexy, which makes it okay.) He's what you get if you take all the worst aspects of the Carnifex and roll them into a ball and pretend its an awesome package that can wreck mountains, but actually ends up feebling struggling with its own pocket lint.

Let's start off: he is ridiculously expensive, even for a Tyranid MC, and has only two very minor stat bumps (+1S, +1Ld) compared to a normal 'Fex. He cannot take a Mycetic Spore and has no guns, and thus is stuck trundling across the field, but they also made sure to avoid giving him Fleet so he can't possibly catch anything you would actually care to throw him at. GW then handpicked all of the worst options from the Carnifex entry, making sure to even cripple him at the one and only thing he can actually even try and do, although by some miracle- probably a poor understanding of the way their own rules work- he managed to escape getting stuck with Toxin Sacs, thank the Emperor.

But he's got some super-cool special abilities, right? Well, he does regenerate on a 5+, rather than just a 6. That's cute. But with only four wounds, it's a marginal ability. And he hands out his Ld to nearby squads, sort of like a pseudo-Synapse Creature. Umm, except he's Ld8, so he makes your guys as tough and fearless as the much-renowned Imperial Guard Lieutenant. His one and only redeeming feature is the ability to chain his successful attacks into additional attacks. Except that, unlike the Blood Angels Dreadnought that costs less than half as much and isn't unique and comes with guns and has better initiative, he doesn't get to continue doing so after the first set of hits. And he's WS3 with one set of Talons, so he isn't exactly an accuracy superstar to start with.

So when you shelled out the price of more-than-a-Land Raider, what did you get? A gimped Dreadnought that can be Boltered to death and always strikes at I1. Hurrrrrrrrrr. And they wonder why we say Marines end up getting all the good toys...

Ha ha, he doesn't have any and even if he did, would you really pay even MORE for this garbage? I'm sorry, I'm just bitter. Did you know the unstoppable death machine of Hive Fleet Behemoth lost a fight to some Scout Marines? That's how amazing he is.

Man, that's not a hard act to follow. You show up, don't s*** your pants and keep both feet out of your mouth and you're golden.

So Biovores, our sorta mediocre answer to artillery. Are they bad? No, not at all- you get a relatively cheap S4 AP4 large blast that can be taken in squads, and if you miss, you still get a consolation prize that turns into an explosion sometime later in the game. Hopefully. I already went over Spore Mines in their respective entry in the FA section, so lets talk about the Biovore himself a little bit.

The big change that everybody seems to miss is that his gun is Assault now. That means he can tag along with your Synapse creatures, puffing away all the while, without ever having to worry about making IB tests. It also means you have freedom to move him to a better spot to fire from/hide in if you so choose. With the mobile battlefields of 5E, this is actually a relatively big deal- static units are dead units unless you have a good defense set up, and defense is not a Tyranid specialty.

Something else to consider: depending on how you read the Instinctive Behavior rules, it may be possible for the 'Vore to fire at units it cannot see after failing its IB test; the sentence contradicts itself with two different wordings. However, you would still be forced to fire at the closest enemy unit in range, so leaving him in the backfield to lurk around probably isn't the best idea anyways.

Remember how I said Tyranids don't need anti-infantry firepower all those times? Here is the one possible exception. For a very low price, you can get some very dangerous blasts that effectively never truly "miss," just get delayed a bit. If you face very many foot armies, be they Marines, Eldar, Orks, or what-have-you, the Biovore can be a very dangerous threat, able to hang behind larger monsters for cover and drop templates that make a Whirlwind cry onto things. Of course, if you are playing Tyranids against a foot army you're probably winning already, but I have a soft spot for these little guys, so maybe think about giving them a try.

New and improved! New and improved! And all this time you've been settling for old and inferior! All hype aside, the Trygon is one of the standout units from the new codex, and if you compare him to his close relatives it's easy to see why. Tough, fast, strong, and with a variety of incidental side benefits, he truly is a MC for all seasons, as few armies will have a problem integrating him to their strategies.

So the big deal is obviously his melee combat. WS5, double Talons and six attacks mean that most things that he charges are going to die in short order; in fact, you can expect him to wreck almost every vehicle on the charge and inflict five or more casualties to MEQs. Fleet and Fearless insure that he stays in the fight and can't easily be avoided and his no-mishap Deep Strike guarantees he'll be getting into the fight with only the shortest of windows to deal with him. His shooting attack, while not terribly impressive, is still perfectly capable of inflicting casualties here and there, so if you know you're in charge range, there's no real reason not to use it. On top of that he's obscenely tough, weighing in with the Six Wounds Worth of Junk in the Trunk club.

As always, of course, there are downsides, not the least of which being his size. As a MC he needs 50% cover to get a save, and the standard model is so tall and spindly that you're going to need some impressively large terrain to hide behind. Which brings us to number two: no invuln and only a 3+. This puts him on par with most all of the other MCs, but given his status as a high-priority target it is never going to be sufficient. Even with T6, wounds will get through and every one is a ticking timer towards your big investment going poof. Hiding in combat will work sometimes, but you kill things too quickly for it to be reliable and even then Power Fists tend to be everywhere, and they make you pretty miserable.

So the Trygon needs to be in one of a couple types of swarms: first, one that takes advantage of his Deep Striking; this probably means an all-DS army with Hive Commanders running the show. This naturally fits in with the next strategy: overwhelm your opponent with MCs. Trygons, Hive Tyrants, and Tervigons all play quite nicely together and form a natural base for neo-Nidzilla build that simply denies the opponent good targets for their anti-infantry weapons. Finally, a melee swarm can use him as one more threat (and a good one at that) that must be dealt with before it arrives. Note that in all cases your strategy is target saturation: give the opponent more of one type of target than he can get rid of. For the Trygon, even more than other Tyranid critters, this is key, because it naturally lends itself to being an obvious target.

One obvious competitor for the Trygon that should be mentioned is a Carnifex, especially in reference to destroying AV14 targets. The 'Fex is often touted as superior in this respect, and to a degree it is; when assaulting a Land Raider (or Monolith, for that matter), the Carnifex has a higher percentage chance to wreck it due to the high Str value, even despite the Trygon's superior number of attacks. However, a significant number of caveats must accompany that statistic: it only applies to rear AV14 vehicles, which is a comparatively small percentage in the game; it only applies if both of them can reach the target- Trygons are Fleet, 'Fexes are not; and it only applies if you did not give the 'Fex any guns, as losing the second pair of Talons effectively cripples its chances to wreck a vehicle moving 6-12". For all of these reasons I greatly prefer the Trygon to the Carnifex for anti-vehicle melee, even if the latter does possess a few advantages in that regard.

And since someone asked and I had meant to put this in here: Trygon holes are worthless. Do not rely on them. Here is what has to happen for you to successfully deploy a unit via a tunnel: 1. The Trygon has to come in early enough for it to matter. If you have reserve bonuses this isn't an issue, but I see a lot of folks run Trygons without them. 2. The unit you want has to not arrive before the Trygon or the same turn. So if you have bonuses to the reserves you're relying on, this is very unlikely. D'oh. 3. It has to be an infantry unit- so no MCs, no Beasts, no Winged creatures. That eliminates quite a lot of the codex. 4. The Trygon has to arrive someplace useful and not scatter off into the middle of nowhere. 5. And you still aren't allowed to assault or move. Do you see how unlikely this is? If you happen to come in from reserve too early- screwed, you're walking from a board edge. What's the upside to all this? One of your units gets to pretend it's Deep Striking. Guess what, kiddies- for 40pts, it can Deep Strike and ignore the majority of those problems, plus you get a cool goopy egg-thing out of the deal. Do yourself a favor and just buy the Spore instead if you really want to try that army.

Adrenal Glands: A surprisingly good investment. First off, S7 gives you a little bit better chance to wreck vehicles and kill tough targets. Secondly, I5 means striking ahead of most types of Marines, which is pretty important. Not only do you cut down on random wounds from all the dorks punching you in the ankles, you get to go ahead of Dreadnoughts, meaning you will almost always get to destroy them before you yourself are attacked. Given the benefits and low cost, it's definitely something you should try to fit onto your Trygon where possible, but it's not so important that you should be cutting other things for it (unless your playgroup is unusually Dread-heavy.)

Toxin Sacs: I wonder, have you gotten the picture with these yet? I'm sorry, Timmy, S6 and poison is not a good combination.

Regeneration: You have six wounds, which is nice, and you get shot a lot, which means it's going to get some chances at it. However, smart opponents are going to concentrate fire on your Trygons, so it may not end up doing much more than giving you an extra wounds around half the time. If your opponent has some big squads that you can charge into and scythe through for several turns (Stubborn IG blobs, for example) without having to risk a Power Fist, it may work out better for you. It also gets better the smaller the game is, since there is less possibility of concentrating fire to destroy the Trygon. At more than 2K points I wouldn't bother.

Trygon Prime: What, exactly, does this get you? #1, Synapse/SitW. This one is obvious. As a rule, the Trygon doesn't really need Synapse all that much, but the ability to reliably DS a Synapse Creature into the enemy backfield can be advantageous. SitW helps with those pesky Farseers and Librarians, shutting down several of the abilities that cause you to auto-lose fights. #2, Ld10. "But I'm Fearless, what do I need Leadership for?" you ask; Doom of Malan'tai, for one. Mind War, for another. Boneswords, for a third. Or any of the other miscellaneous Leadership tests you have to take. They aren't common, but when you need to do it, you'll be glad for those extra two points, which translates into something like a 20% increase if you're making a normal test on 2d6. Last but not least, you double the number of shots you get with Bio-Electric Pulse, which brings it up to being a fairly dangerous gun.

Is it worth it? Well, how much Synapse do you already have? How often do you need forward Synapse? Plenty of people run the Prime, although I myself tend to find I have enough sources to keep my swarm well under control already. I would not recommend purchasing the full Prime + Regen + AG suite, because at that point you could practically have gotten two Mawlocs, which, although not Synapse, will undoubtedly do more damage and are far tougher.

Alias: The Other Trygon, Rules Nightmare the Second. Largely identical to its "bigger" brother in stats except when it comes to melee, the Mawloc is a more specialized form that wants to pretend to be an artillery piece some of the time. I don't think it's really "worth" it, but it has uses and can give you some interesting tactical options if you're willing to take a hit in straight effectiveness.

(Rules note: As with a couple other units, I am making some rules assumptions here to make the review possible without constant "unless of course..." statements. To whit, I am assuming that the Mawloc is allowed to choose a spot on top of another unit for its Deep Strike arrival point. As with the Doom, I am not interested in having a discussion on whether you think this works or not or why I'm stupid and that's not what the rules say or whether everyone in your play group things it works the other way and that's proof. If you are really that anal about things, write your own review.)

The Mawloc takes a couple pretty major hits with respect to the Trygon, and it's only fair to compare the two directly; their stats are very similar, they occupy the same slot, and they serve similar purposes in a lot of ways. What are you actually giving up? Well, you hit on 4s against almost everyone, rather than 3s. You have half as many attacks and don't get the free reroll. You don't have a gun. You aren't Fleet. And you can mishap by scattering into impassible terrain (but still not models.) You also don't have the option to be Synapse. All of these are pretty big changes- while a Mawloc is as tough as a Trygon, its damage output is massively lower, getting ~2 wounds against most targets on the charge (which, compared to the Trygon's ~5 if pretty sad.) That means that you aren't going to be breaking units by meleeing them to death most of the time, so you're relying on the large blast to do your damage for you. Let's talk about that blast for a second. S6 AP2 is certainly good numbers, but the accuracy is another matter entirely. You will always scatter the full distance, since there are no realistic ways to reduce it in the Tyranid codex. (See the Lictor section if you disagree.) That means you only have about a one-in-three chance to actually hit your target, as the average 7" on the 2d6 will probably take you well off the edge of most units. So the Terror from the Deep is powerful, but incredibly unreliable.

However, that's not the only thing you have going for you. The Mawloc does have Hit and Run, which means its weak melee stats are less of a problem, as it can't really get stuck chopping down a mob of guys the way some units can. This also gives it the potential for a very long "reach," much like a Lictor can (move, charge, HnR at the end of the combat and cover nearly 20" of ground). Combined with its ability to reburrow on subsequent turns after arriving this gives the Mawloc rather impressive mobility- you can spend two turns to arrive on pretty much anywhere on the battlefield you care to. As with Deathleaper, this is mostly for contesting objectives in the final turns of the game, but it can also work if you get stranded somewhere inconvenient on turn 3 or 4 and want to get back in the fight.

There are a couple cute tricks you can pull with him. One is starting him on the table and "reburrowing" him on the first turn, so he arrives automatically on turn 2 (rather than having to roll.) Another is using his "push aside enemy units" feature to try and destroy vehicles- for example, but arriving on top of a Land Raider in the middle of a formation of vehicles, so when it is pushed, there is nowhere to go and it falls into the abyss. Lastly, you can use the same trick to shove groups of enemy models into tight clusters in order to hit them with various blasts and templates- not terribly impressive, but it nets you a little more from a successful landing. Only trick #1 is really worth the trouble; #2 is very hard to set up and #3 is a pretty small upside return and potentially risks wounding the Mawloc itself. In the interests of completeness, however, I've included them here.

Overall, the Mawloc ends up being a cute trick but falling into the "not really worth it" category. On more crowded battlefields or if you are trying to spam the most, cheapest Monstrous Creatures onto the field, however, he can serve a purpose and is not a bad choice (which, honestly, the new codex doesn't have many of.) However, I can't really rank him as a competitive unit.

Adrenal Glands: You get the same benefits out of it that a Trygon does, but given the Mawloc's lower combat stats I wouldn't be inclined to bother with it.

Toxin Saasjbdfkjb jbs7%#@6^tKYmn2(37gbk>:"nb 320%(i3w

Regeneration: The Mawloc is less likely to take wounds than the Trygon (since it is generally a less-threatening target.). On the other hand, you have a superior ability to duck into a wimpy unit (of, say, Tactical Marines) and hope for some sixes so you can HnR or finish the squad and go do something else. Honestly, if I had 200pts to spare I'd just take a Trygon instead, but if you like your Mawlocs or want to make an all-regenerating army, it's a reasonable buy.

Almost there. Big Tubby F is pretty much the answer to the old Sniperfex- a long range shooting platform with enhanced resilience. And, to look at the numbers, MAN is he tough. He gets everything the other W6 creatures do and a 2+ save on top of it, so Missiles, Bolters, Autocannons and other small guns simply don't do the job against him. He has a choice of three weapons, but let's be frank: only one of them is worth the price tag. The basic equip, Acid Spray, is nice and would be pretty cool on anything that cost less than a Land Raider, but without AP3 or something else impressive it simply doesn't bring enough to the party to justify using him. The Fleshborer Hive is a joke; I have never seen anyone seriously suggest even trying it. Even with 24" range it still would be underwhelming. The Rupture Cannon is what the Tyrannofex is really all about- reaching out and breaking someone else's toys from across the board.

Now, a lot of folks hate on the T-Fex because he's too expensive, doesn't get enough shots, etc, etc. Is he expensive? Yes, of course he is. Enormously so, in fact. But what those points buy you is a shooting platform that will not stop and is defended against practically every form of assault your opponent could hope to bring. Hordes of troops? Well, I've got two secondary guns I can shoot at you and I'm still T6 and an MC, so you aren't going to plink me to death in melee, no matter how hard you try. his combat stats may not impress, but they're still enough to off a couple dudes each turn while blithely ignoring return attacks. And he's mobile and long-ranged, so moving away from him isn't really an option 54" threat will effectively cover the whole board. Out-shoot him? Better cross your fingers, because you can't Shake, Stun, or Weapon Destroy him. As long as he has one wound remaining, the shots keep coming. And let's talk about those shots- while a little bit worse than a Railgun, the difference is actually relatively small, and the most common Railgun platform (Hammerheads) costs 150-170pts. So rather than one BS4 shot for 160, you are getting two BS3 shots for 265; that's actually a pretty fair deal. The equivalence isn't exact, but as a rough comparision I think it serves our purposes- the Tyrannofex is not particularly overpriced for what it does.

"But why would I pay that many points for something when I have Zoanthropes and Hive Guard?", you might ask. Because the Tyrannofex does something that neither of those units do. Zoanthopres are excellent against the same AV values that the Tyrannofex preferes- but the T-Fex doesn't care about psychic protection, instant death, being assaulted, and is infinitely more survivable at all ranges. And Hive Guard have a similar profile in terms of being excellent against transports and passable against other things while having good toughness, but the Tyrannofex's additional range and effectiveness against all targets makes the price tag more bearable. Furthermore, one must look at it from the perspective of when the Tyrannofex will be taken, namely as a unit to work with other AT. He is a gap-filler, letting your 3x2 Hive Guard list also be able to kill Land Raiders. The fact that he is also a HS slot, rather than the eternally-filled Elites, also makes a big difference.

So if you're running an army that plays on the board (as opposed to Deep Striking, etc), I would suggest giving the T-Fex a try. He does a very passable job against vehicles of all sorts and can be a good source of mobile cover for your other MCs, since you are perfectly happy to put him in front of most heavy weapons in lieu of your other units. And really, what else are you going to do with all those BS/VC Carnifexes you built back in the day?

Fleshborer Hive: I have nothing smarmy to say here except "GW, you chucklefudges, the Punisher Cannon was bad at 24" and less than 200pts, what the hell were you thinking?"

Rupture Cannon: Forever and always, my one and only.

Cluster Spines: Same as the others, no reason not to. Having a large blast to fend off infantry that want to tangle you up is brilliant.

Electroshock Grubs/Desiccator Larvae/Shreddershard Beetles: So which of these should you take? Well, the really obvious choice is if you know what you're facing- ESG are perfect against T3 targets, DL are made to hurt tougher things, and SSB are your weapon of choice for heavily-armored targets. To what degree, though? Well, the long and short of it (feel free to do the math yourself) is that Desiccator Larvae are superior against all varieties of T4 targets except Terminators, although only marginally so compared to Shreddershard. Electroshock are better against most T3 (since the AP is often relevant and you wound on a 2+ anyways); Shreddershard are identical against Sisters, since you make up for lack of Rends by number of wounds. So I would say your default option should pretty much always be Desiccator unless you are extremely sure that you're going to be fighting Guard or such a lot. Oh, and remember that you can always fire the template as an extra weapon above and beyond your normal two, but that doesn't let you fire it at a second target. It's perfectly legal to position yourself so that the template touches two enemy units, though, provided you are hitting the maximum number possible from the "real" target.

Adrenal Glands: I2 isn't very impressive, and you aren't a melee unit. Forget it.

Toxin Sacs: Oh Lucy, you nutty redhead, putting these everywhere as part of your wacky scheme. You so crazy.

Regeneration: With his toughness, save, and wounds, cutting the Tyrannofex down in a single turn is difficult, and unlike the Trygon, he likes to hang out in packs with other units that can give him cover while he licks his wounds. If you can afford it, this can potentially go a long ways. As always, though, don't make the mistake of skimping elsewhere because you've fixated on it.

7 pinkments:

Chumbalaya said...

Good one, fun to read and informative.

<3 T-fexes

MagicJuggler said...

Actually, dual Brainleechfexes can have their role in an army. The main one being that TL S6>raw S5 when it comes time to deal with lighter vehicles, stunning and otherwise disabling them ("Those poor Warbuggies never stood a chance!"). The Spore can assist in disabling nearby vehicles too.

Am doing some number-crunching on the assumption of "Mawlocs can Deepstrike on top of Models" as well as "Minimum Distance movement" meaning "Minimum Distance from the Mawloc itself." If this holds true, then the Lictor-Mawloc 1-2 combo has better odds than a tri-Zoanthroape unit, of punking a Land Raider. The high initiative of both units could complements Sporing some Devourergants, with the mass of Hit And Run units being usable for pinning enemy units in place.

Testing the army will be an interesting experiment.

AbusePuppy said...

>Lictor-Mawloc 1-2 combo has better odds than a tri-Zoanthroape unit, of punking a Land Raider

I'm not sure what you're proposing here. In order to destroy the Raider, there has to be absolutely no other place to move the Raider to legally when the Mawloc lands, which is pretty hard to do.

I'm also a little unclear on what you're referencing S6 vs S5; the 'Fex doesn't get any S5 guns, and the only other one that springs to mind is the Deathspitter, which is pretty my a Warrior exclusive gun.

Having messed with the TL Devs a bit, they actually are pretty scary still. My opinion of them on the Tyrant (specifically as two pairs) has gone up significantly; I just don't think that the 'Fex is a good platform for... well, most anything. It's a rare vehicle that you aren't better off hitting with a Harpy from the sides.

MagicJuggler said...

Puppy: I misread vehicle movement in the Mawloc's rulesmess. Disregard this, unless a FAQ comes out...sometime.

The Strength 6 vs Strength 5 is reference to a 'Fex vs a Trygon. You can more reliably drop next to the enemy, and suppress two vehicles, before moving in next turn to punch them out.

rmonin said...

"You know how old people are always dumb and worthless? Old One Eye basically exemplifies that fact. (Disclaimer: young people are also dumb and worthless, but some of them are also sexy, which makes it okay.)"

So the Old Eye Eye would be worth it if he did not have a 2 edition old model? :)

Anonymous said...

The mawlocs template does not scatter it hits where the mawloc does so, also do not forget that you scatter the model, so if any point of its gigantic base hits a unit then they take the hits

lyracian said...

Carnifex/Trygon Vs Fast Tank (6's to hit)
SK = Screamer-Killer, AG = Adrenal Glands. Claws assumed +2 Attacks
. . . . . . . . . . .Immob/Kill Imm/Kill.Imm/Kill . . Kill . . . Kill . . . Stun+
. . . . . . . . . . .AV14. . . .AV13 . . . AV12 . . AV11 . . . AV10 . . AV12
AG-Trygon . . .. 40.79% . 50.74% . 57.81% . 61.45% . 65.22% . 87.22%
Trygon . . . . . .29.91% . 40.79% . 50.74% . 55.89% . 61.45% . 82.54%
SK-AG-Fex . . .. 50.60% . 53.74% . 55.62% . 56.35% . 56.35% . 83.85%
Skreamer-Killer .46.02% . 50.60% . 53.74% . 55.25% . 56.35% . 82.84%
Dakka-Fex . . . .27.88% . 31.09% . 33.35% . 34.46% . 35.28% . 58.68%
Claw-Fex . . . . 36.72% . 40.62% . 43.33% . 44.65% . 45.61% . 70.99%
Claw/Talon-Fex . 41.54% . 45.77% . 48.69% . 50.09% . 51.13% . 76.93%

Carnifex/Trygon Vs Tank (4+ to hit) Same assumptions as above.
. . . . . . . . . . .Immob/Kill Imm/Kill.Imm/Kill . . Kill . . . Kill . . . Stun+
. . . . . . . . . . .AV14. . . .AV13 . . . AV12 . . AV11 . . . AV10 . . AV12
AG-Trygon .. . 74.44% . 84.82% . 90.42% . 92.74% . 94.76% . 99.90%
Trygon . . . . . 59.63% . 74.44% . 84.82% . 89.04% . 92.74% . 99.58%
SK-AG-Fex . . . 85.77% . 88.46% . 89.92% . 90.46% . 90.46% . 99.90%
Skreamer-Killer.81.28% . 85.77% . 88.46% . 89.64% . 90.46% . 99.85%
Dakka-Fex . . . 65.09% . 70.24% . 73.59% . 75.15% . 76.27% . 96.42%
Claw-Fex . . . .77.09% . 81.68% . 84.50% . 85.76% . 86.65% . 99.05%
Claw/Talon-Fex .82.66% . 86.80% . 89.24% . 90.31% . 91.05% . 99.72%

Number of Hits (not Wounds) when Charging WS 4 Infantry.
So here is the math for various Carnifex builds and a Trygon. Keeping a single Talon turned out to give better results than I expected...
Claws assumes +2 Attacks
Carnifex with .. .0 . . . . . .1 . . . . . .2 . . . . . 3 . . . . .4 . . . . . .5 . . . . .6 . . . . .7
Dakkafex . . . . 03.13% . 15.63% . 31.25% . 31.25% . 15.63% . 03.13% . 00.00% . 00.00%
Screamer-Killer 00.10% . 01.46% . 08.79% . 26.37% . 39.55% . 23.73% . 00.00% . 00.00%
Gun/Talon . . . .01.26% . 08.79% . 24.62% . 34.46% . 24.12% . 06.75% . 00.00% . 00.00%
Claws/Gun . . . 00.78% . 05.47% . 16.41% . 27.34% . 27.34% . 16.41% . 05.47% . 00.78%
Claw/Talon . . .00.22% . 02.14% . 08.97% . 20.94% . 29.30% . 24.63% . 11.49% . 02.30%
Trygon . . . . . 00.00% . 00.00% . 00.03% . 00.37% . 03.00% . 14.39% . 38.37% . 43.85%

Screamer-Killer is getting 4+ hits 63.28% of the time.
Claw-fex . . . . is getting 4+ hits 50.00% of the time, 6+ hits 06.25% of the time.
Trygon . . . . . is getting 4+ hits 99.60% of the time, 6+ hits 82.21% of the time.

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